Justice Vs. Vengeance

[Who me]

17 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Galatians 2:13-14, "And when you were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with him, when he forgave us all our trespasses,"  I don't see the word "repentance" here.  Or here...

Ephesians 2:1-10, "You were dead through the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, doing the will of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else, but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ[—by grace you have been saved—and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.  For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them."

So you are saying g that sinners do not need to repent?

That Peters response to the crowd on the day of pentecostal,  to repent and be baptised was wrong?

 

[JimmyB]

6 hours ago, Who me said:

So you are saying g that sinners do not need to repent?

That Peters response to the crowd on the day of pentecostal,  to repent and be baptised was wrong?

 

Why are you twisting my words?

Where did I say that sinners do not need to repent? And to whom was Peter speaking?

It is critical to understand to whom the various "books" of the Bible were written. I quoted from Galatians and Ephesians, two epistles written by Paul to Christians. 

 

[JimmyB]

On 8/22/2023 at 2:33 AM, Who me said:

As imitators  of God we are to do what God does. How does God forgive?

It throughout the bible is conditional on repentance.  Then we must as the verses say we must forgive, regardless  of how we might feel about it.

Do you even understand the difference between forgiveness and repentance?

[other one]

Since people who rape children don't fair well in prison, one might consider it a mercy killing. Maybe the rapist repented and God put it into the heart of the Father to relieve him of the persecution the rapist would have experienced in prison.

I don't think so either, however we need not get too involved for we don't know the hearts of any of them.

 

Or maybe .....  no, that's enough

[Who me]

19 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Do you even understand the difference between forgiveness and repentance?

Repentance, being sorry  for, turning away from, changing one behaviour.

Forgiveness, putting  away all memory of an offence, removing any resentment or anger against someone who has offended and the restoring a relationship.

Without repentance there cannot be true forgiveness,  this is found through out the bible. 

[JimmyB]

4 hours ago, Who me said:

Repentance, being sorry  for, turning away from, changing one behaviour.

Forgiveness, putting  away all memory of an offence, removing any resentment or anger against someone who has offended and the restoring a relationship.

Without repentance there cannot be true forgiveness,  this is found through out the bible. 

So you think that forgiving someone is dependent on their repentance.

Matthew 6:9-15,

 “Pray, then, in this way:

Our Father in heaven,
    may your name be revered as holy.
May your kingdom come.
    May your will be done
        on earth as it is in heaven.
 Give us today our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
        as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And do not bring us to the time of trial,
        but rescue us from the evil one.

 “For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Notice that this clearly shows that forgiveness is not conditional on the other person's repentance.

[farouk]

On 8/20/2023 at 12:29 PM, jesusandliberty said:

Amen brother. Step 8 in Celebrate Recovery taught me this. You have to be ready to forgive without expecting anything in return from the other party. Being able to master this will set you free from SO many things. 

@jesusandliberty When we think of what the Lord Jesus did for us at the Cross (Isaiah 53.5)  - and He was innocent and pure - it should negate feelings of vengeance toward others.

"But none of the ransomed ever knew
  How deep were the waters crossed;
Nor how dark was the night which the Lord passed through
  Ere He found His sheep that was lost." (Elizabeth Cecilia Clephane)

 

[Who me]

17 hours ago, JimmyB said:

And forgive us our debts,
        as we also have forgiven our debtors

Don't  you realise that God forgave us when we repented, and the prayer is saying we will also forgive those who, like us, repented.

[JimmyB]

6 hours ago, Who me said:

Don't  you realise that God forgave us when we repented, and the prayer is saying we will also forgive those who, like us, repented.

The word "repent" doesn't appear in the prayer. Don't read something into Scripture that isn't there.

[farouk]

7 hours ago, Who me said:

Don't  you realise that God forgave us when we repented, and the prayer is saying we will also forgive those who, like us, repented.

@Who me How important it is to have a forgiving spirit!