70 Weeks of Daniel

[Triton57]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:16 AM, Revelation Man said:

We will not be here during the 70th week, that is Israel time to repent, our jobs on earth are done. Ok, BELOW, I am going to prove to you 100 percent that the 70th week, and the [mostly] Gentile Church Age can not cross over according to Jesus' own instructions, in so doing I must teach in depth on the Matt. 24 Mt. of Olives sermon by Jesus called the Olivet Discourse. Most people just do not get what Jesus is saying in Matt. 24:4-14, they WAY TO MUCH try to tie it to the end times, which it vaguely speaks of, but overall the Disciples are Jesus' focus in Matt. 24:4-14, and he teaching them 100 percent how to help the church survive what is coming, until it becomes their time to set an example of the Church with their deaths (save John). In so doing, it becomes 100 percent clear the Church will not be here for the 70th week. Think THE END IS NOT YET in vs. 6 and think WHAT BRINGS THE END in vs. 14 and think WHAT THE END IS !!

Matthew 24 the Disciples guide to help the Fledgling Church survive

Matt. 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, (1)Tell us, when shall these things be?(temples destruction) and what shall be (2)the sign of thy coming, and of the (3)end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ;(speaking about 70 AD events ONLY) and shall deceive many.

6 And ye(Disciples) shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

{{{ Above is 70 AD (well 67-70 AD) events only, not the end time Anti-Christ or "false christ" types in the end times, but these are only 70 AD false christs which fulfill John 5:43's prophecy unto the Pharisees. Jesus specifically says (VERY IMPORTANT), the End is not yet or is by and by meaning LATER ON. That end Jesus is referring unto is the 70th week, it is VERY, VERY Important to grasp this. I will show 100 percent how we the Church are not here for the end by Jesus' own prophecy.

Those rumors of wars was the 70 AD Roman invasion of the "Fourth Beast" where the Pharisees put forth men as messianic political leaders to try and save them from Rome, to no avail of course. BELOW in verses 7-8 Jesus tries to emphasis this is NOT THE END by painting the Disciples a picture of the many many, many things that must happen before THE END or 70th week comes, this verses 7-8 are barley germane to the Olivet Discourse, yet people try to say its all about the end times, its not, its about the Disciples lives on this earth, and how they are to help a fledgling church survive, and Jesus saw the most danger coming from the 70 AD events.

If the Disciples had rushed back thinking, this is Jesus come again, they would have been killed, and of course the fledgling church would have rushed back to fight for their Lord with them, and the Disciples and the Church would have all died and the church would have been killed off in its infancy !!  So, Jesus had to give the disciples a fool-proof understanding, so he is like, no, no, no, do not rush back when you hear of these wars and false christs, that will not be me, the END (70th week) is much, much, much later on, there will be much famine, many, many wars, and many many earthquakes and much pestilence and it will get progressively worse over time like the Birth Pangs of a woman. So, all verses 7-8 is, is a demonstration of (GET THIS) why the END is much, much later on down the road, it s not the 70 AD events. Jesus paints them a picture they have to understand, but alas, verse 14 is the 100 percent fool-proof understanding the Disciples need to help the church survive past 70 AD. }}}

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

{{{ As I stated, we have people who place ball the emphases on what could be considered "throw away verses" by Jesus, because it really has very little to do with what Jesus lesson is here to the Disciples, Jesus needs to get them to understand that 70 AD is NOT THE END (70th week events) and thus it is not him returning again, so he shows them the many things that must happen and how things get progressively worse over time, he does so with verses 7-8. But as Jesus warns in vs. 6, THE END IS NOT YET (70th week) but is by and by. Then Jesus goes into the details of how the Disciples will all die, save John. }}]

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you:(Disciples) and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

{{{ This is really simple stuff when we do not think its END TIME FULFILLED Prophecy. This was Jesus FOREWARNING the Disciples they would all be killed for his names sake. Why? So they would be ready when it came, vs. 13 shows why Jesus forewarned them, Jesus did not wanting them turning into another Judas, so telling them ahead of time had them prepared to die for their Lord and for the Churches example, after all we overcame the World/Satan by our blood Amen (Rev. 12). Who is THEY in  verse 9? who are these false prophets? Well, who was the Culture Clash against?

The false gods served by the peoples, namely Jupiter, Zeus and many other gods the Romans and Greeks worshiped. It was an Oracle (Woman) of a false god who made a Decree that made the Romans start slaughtering the Christians, because the Christian God Jesus was taking away all of their patrons that they had built up over much time, their gods (Demons) were no match for the Gospel, which was going to cleanse the Western Civilizations up via the Good News of Jesus Christ, Amen. And the Church did just that over time, we gave the Roman Beast the "Mortal Wound" and Rome became the Conveyor Belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ unto the whole world. So, the Disciples were despised and hated of many nations who had what? State Sponsored [False] Religion. The MANY who were offended and betrayed one another is more than likely half stepping Christians who were lukewarm in their faith, once the killing started, they started ratting out their brothers in the faith. And because they loved sin, their hearts were cold, and thus they killed the Christians at the stake via fire. }}}

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

{{{ This is Jesus warning the Disciples after he just told them they would all be killed that they MUST ENDURE until the end [of their lives]. Like Paul says, its an endurance race we run, not a sprint. Now BELOW, the most important verse, the one that 100 percent proves the Church is not on this earth for the 70th week end times. }}}

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

{{{ So, Jesus makes 100 percent sure the Disciples CAN NOT BE DECIEVED, and rush back to the 70 AD events, where they would be killed along with the fledgling church, he does so by telling them the Temples Destruction Events and Wars will not be THE END (70th week vents) and then in verse 14 he gives them an understanding of what has to happen before THE END comes. He says the Gospel must be preached unto ALL THE WORLD, and the Disciples knew about India, China and the Scythians (Russia today) so they knew 100 percent they would never reach those nations with the Gospel during their lives, so they knew 100 percent they would never see Jesus Second Coming, so they knew 100 percent that 70 AD was not the 70th week events. But alas, Jesus tells us when the 70th week will come, when the Gospel has been preached unto ALL THE WORLD, only then can the 70th week come, and what is the Churches Mission on this earth? Yo take the Gospel unto the world, thus our mission is complete, thus we are no longer need on this earth during the 70th week, thus we will be raptured to Heaven pre 70th week. Its sad people really, really think Matt. 24:4-14 is about THE END TIMES, and the Seals during the 7oth week, it is not. }}}

 

I believe similarly that Matthew 24:4-14 is all before the end, which happens around the time after the abomination of desolation on the day of the Lord. We see similar jump back in time in Luke's account of the Olivet discourse where in Luke 21:10-11 He talks about great earthquakes, famine, pestilences and fearful signs and great signs from heaven.

 

Luke 21:12

But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

 

Yeshua jumps back in time and proceeds to describe being betrayed by parents, friends, etc. However, it's not the abomination of desolation He warns about, but rather Jerusalem surrounded by armies and her desolation nigh. The same warning to flee Jerusalem is given, but in a very different way from Matthew and Mark. These are the days of vengeance and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all nations, Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. This is a depiction of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Clearly what's been consolidated into the scripture the Holy Spirit gave us included the warning given to those alive in 70 AD. It was a few days before Passover when the Roman armies began surrounding Jerusalem and Israel was gathered there for the feast days, in which are several Sabbath and high holy days. Indeed Israel was disbursed into the nations and Jerusalem was trodden down by the Gentiles until Israel became a nation and won the wars that led to sovereignty over most of Jerusalem. If my understanding is right, we may see Israel exert full control come what may as she stands resolute against the enemies around her trying to snuff her out. They will fail.

 

We are then brought back to the future and the signs of the sixth seal, that are said to come after the unparalleled tribulation of Matthew 24:15-22, Mark 13:14-20, Jeremiah 30:4-7, and Daniel 12:1.

 

So yes I agree that much of Matthew's account was for before, but is also there for us to understand, an already but not yet scenario. Luke's account is clearly pointing back to 70 AD and then jumping back to the future. The concept of false Christ's is definitely one of those pieces relevant to us in the future as those looking on earth for a redeemer may fall under the deception that is coming. The generic mentions of nation against nation and rumors of wars is too generic to lock down to one time. Even the being afflicted for Christ's namesake happens right now around the world where millions of Christians are murdered for their faith, something the Western world tends to forget. I would say the love of many is growing colder. If love is selfless then the opposite is selfishness and that is certainly growing with this everyone for themselves mob mentality. Hatred for others has always been a problem and gauging it growing can be subjective for sure. That the Gospel will be preached to the world and then the end will come is the unknowable end of this period, the variance of which is also subjective. I would posit that it has been delivered to the world, or at least is extremely close with today's technology and global reach.

 

I do not see how that means the church will be taken before the 70th week though, since the Olivet discourse and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 agree that the abomination of desolation where the man of sin declares himself god in the temple and stops the daily sacrifice will come before the signs of the sixth seal, the appearing of the Son of man on the day of the Lord/Christ, and our gathering to Him before God's wrath is poured out on the children of disobedience. It is the abomination of desolation that immediately follows the Gospel being preached to the world signifying the end. Therefore would not the end then be defined as the next event mentioned, the revealing of the man of sin? I think it's important to remember that Daniel 9:27 places the abomination of desolation in the midst of the week.

 

One final point on the focus of false Christs only being for the disciples historically, what do you make of Yeshua's warning following His warning of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet? This seems to me to be relevant for the future end time as well.

 

Matthew 24:23-27

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

I think the great deception that is coming will be tied to the antichrist attempting to deceive the world that he is the Messiah the Jews have been waiting for. Because of this I think it is dangerous to relegate false Christs only to history, lest any who don't know the scriptures and from whence Christ will come are deceived. The anti in antichrist can mean "opposite to" or "in place of." So let me lay out a possible scenario.

 

The antichrist would initially come in with flattery to the Jews as a conquering hero protecting Israel and defeating her enemies. Many Jews would whisper of Messiah as he appeared to fulfill some prophecies, including restoring the temple and daily sacrifice, a confirming of the Mosaic Covenant. Perhaps even some archaeological discovery would spur the Jews to return to the God of their fathers. Ultimately though, the dragon's control of Israel's enemies will have played its role and he will enter the temple and stop the daily sacrifice, declaring himself to be god.

 

I think many Jews before this time will truly be seeking a return to God the only way they know how, being blinded, the Mosaic Covenant. This blasphemy of the antichrist declaring himself god in the temple, setting himself up as an idol to be worshiped may be the cause of him being wounded to death when a zealous priest carries out the penalty for blasphemy of this sort and kills him.

 

This may be where God sends a strong delusion that they believe he is god by using the false prophet, perhaps a false Elijah who is expected by the Jews to come before the Messiah and has resurrected from the dead before. He resurrects the beast at which time the dragon has been cast out of heaven and his wrath is great for Israel that rejects him. Even Jews, who have turned from God and worship the antichrist, will become the instrument of their fellow Jews destruction at the command of the dragon through his proxy beast. I think once the dragon has deceived someone, he doesn't want them dead, they are his instrument and he probably enjoys all the more that they are murdering their own people because of his deception.

 

To this time the focus is on Judea, but those of Israel who have heeded the warning and run for the mountains will be taken to the wilderness and protected from the dragon for the remainder of his reign. As his reign is 42 months and Israel is protected for 42 months, this initial time in Judea is very short. I believe Daniel 12:11, placing the abomination of desolation at the beginning of a 1,290 day period indicates a maximum time for the time of Jacob's trouble from which they will be saved out of to the wilderness as 30 days.

 

It is at this time the sign of the Son of man comes in the clouds with great power and glory and the dead in Christ are raised incorruptible and wise virgins are changed and both are caught up together to meet the Lord at His appearing. The winds of the destruction of the wrath of God are held back until the 144,000 are sealed in the wilderness, the only ones explicitly protected from the demon scorpions of the fifth trumpet. There is silence in heaven for 1/2 hour and the wrath of God is then poured out on all those that dwell on the earth.

 

In this scenario, we see a false Christ in the end that has great power, is even resurrected from the dead. Now most Christians I hope will know enough to not believe this is Yeshua's return, but it's hard to say because there are some deceived that might fall for it who don't rightly divide the Word of Truth. I see many warnings to guard against deception in the end and the scenario above fits with scripture as I understand it so it's at least a possibility, while may not be 100% accurate. I just think we need to not dismiss warnings of false Christs even though the warnings were historical as well.

[Triton57]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:36 AM, WilliamL said:

The 70th week was fulfilled in every detail during the Jewish War of 66-73. Thoroughly explained here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1605-daniel-924-27-examined-part-6-do-verses-26b-27-prophesy-future-events/

and here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

 

RE: Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 6: Do Verses 26b-27 Prophesy Future Events?

 

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1) They can provide no scripture that prophesies the rebuilding of the Temple prior to the Second Coming of the Messiah. Also, they can provide no scripture that says Jerusalem will be destroyed in the End Times. (Damaged, yes; destroyed, no.)  Daniel 9:24-27 makes no mention at all of “end times,” “latter days,” or any similar term that unequivocally points to the seven events being fulfilled in OUR Latter Days.

 

If I take the Word of God seriously, then I know a temple is required for the man of sin to declare himself god in. The abomination of desolation, as defined by Daniel's vision of Antiochus IV to which Yeshua points, requires a temple within which to place an idol and make it desolate. Whether that is one carved with stone or a man demanding worship. It is also implied if there are daily sacrifices happening in the context of Israel and Jerusalem, that some sort of temple or tabernacle is in place.

 

Daniel 12:11

And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

Matthew 24:15

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

 

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

Revelation 11:1-2

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.

 

Matthew 24:15, 29-31

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) ... Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

So we see a temple that is measured, therefore physical in nature while also tied to a 42 month period of time. It is tied to the abomination of desolation and the stopping of the daily sacrifice, which is pivotal in defining the start of the 42 month reign of the antichrist according to scripture, and comes before the return of Christ to gather His elect to Himself. Now one can symbolize this away as many have. For some, only the Jews rebuilding the temple will convince them, and for some not even that I suppose. We will have to wait and see. I will adjust as needed.

 

Regarding the destruction of Jerusalem, given that is the seat of the man of sin during his 42 month reign, it is not destroyed until the end of the week and the end of God's wrath. The destruction in verse 26b is referring to 70 AD however.

 

Revelation 17:2, 4b, 6

With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. ... having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: ... And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

 

Revelation 14:8

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

 

Revelation 18:2-3

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

 

Revelation 18:24

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

We’ve seen how this whore was arrayed, the world commits fornication with her, and that fornication is tied to dragon’s wrath and the blood of the saints. The final piece that defines this woman riding the beast comes in her definition as that great city that rules over the kings of the earth, the center of power of the kingdom of the dragon and his man of sin and false prophet.

 

Revelation 17:5

And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

 

Revelation 17:18

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

Revelation 11:7-8

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

Luke 13:33-34

Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the [day] following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and ye would not!

 

This woman is identified with a great city and nicknamed mystery Babylon, but John also calls this great city spiritually Sodom, Egypt, and where Yeshua was crucified. It is Jerusalem that kills all the prophets and stones those who are sent to her and Yeshua made a point of returning there to fulfill God’s plan of redemption from Jerusalem so that it would be in Jerusalem that His blood was spilled for all mankind. Therefore, mystery Babylon is none other than Jerusalem.

 

Revelation 17 and 18 are all about the judgment of the great whore that sits upon many waters. As we will see we get a lot of great insight about the kingdom of the antichrist from these chapters as well, but the focus is on the judgment of Jerusalem and her inhabitants. At the time her judgment comes, almost 3½ years after the abomination of desolation, it’s hard to believe anyone not part of the beast’s kingdom would remain there, but a warning is given before the destruction.

 

Revelation 16:17-21

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, [every stone] about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

Revelation 18:4-8

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

 

Revelation 17:12-13, 16-17

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. ... And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

 

So Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, which Daniel 9:26 conveys, and it will be destroyed in the wrath of God and by the 10 kings, razing it so Yeshua can build it up in His return to rule for the Messianic Kingdom for 1,000 years.

 

I agree that 'Daniel 9:24-27 makes no mention at all of “end times,” “latter days,”' Examining the whole council of God, I don't require it to in order to see it is meant for the end. I do think that it's possible some of the elements of verse 24 in context of Israel and Jerusalem are yet future such as finishing the transgression, since Israel is still blinded and not right with God, but He will bring her back to Him, those written in the book. I would say sealing up vision and prophecy could be taken several ways. I don't think any new prophecy is required, but that which is already given is not yet fulfilled and will be when Christ takes the kingdoms and reigns on earth.

 

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2) Daniel 11:40-45 does say that an End Time commander/leader, “the King of the North,” shall enter and occupy the Holy Land. But nothing in that passage speaks anything about a Temple – a notable omission, if one were to actually exist.

 

If you will not take the whole council of God into account then you will miss out on a lot IMO. Take the next verse following 11:45, ignoring the chapter breaks that did not exist originally.

 

Daniel 12:1

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 

Matthew 24:15-22

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

Mark 13:14-20

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter [therein], to take any thing out of his house: And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. For [in] those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

 

Jeremiah 30:4-7

And these [are] the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day [is] great, so that none [is] like it: it [is] even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

 

Now we have the time just after the lack of mention of a temple in the next chapter, which was not separated by chapters originally, the declaration of the unparalleled time of Jacob's trouble that he will be saved out of. Now if there is a time that is unparalleled in all of history and three different places lay claim to it, they are speaking of the same time. Please note the Olivet discourse related to the future abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet in Daniel 8:9-14 and Daniel 11:31 historically and Daniel 12:11 and Daniel 9:27. Yeshua gave us a foreshadowed fulfillment to understand what the abomination of desolation is and a future one that will be fulfilled by the man of sin just before Christ returns to gather His bride and begin His wrath on the earth.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

Assuming the day of Christ and our gathering to Him has not already come, it is implied when taking the scripture seriously that the revealing of the man of sin will include what Paul considered the temple of God.

 

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3) Likewise, nothing in that passage says anything about the Sanctuary being overwhelmed and destroyed. And the proponents of “the Antichrist” theory can provide no other scripture that says that either.

 

I'm not sure what passage you mean, 26b you have "“…and people of a leader/commander, the one coming in, he shall cause to destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end shall be with a flood of attackers…" If you mean destruction in the middle of the 7 years, I agree. The temple will be the center of the beast's reign.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

Assuming the day of Christ and our gathering to Him has not already come, it is implied when taking the scripture seriously that the revealing of the man of sin will include what Paul considered the temple of God.

 

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4) Neither can they provide any secondary scripture that prophesies a 7-year covenant in the End Times, or even mentions any such 7-year event.

 

The only mention of a 7-year covenant is in Daniel 9:27, agreed. This does not preclude it from occurring in the future. There is some mention of an abomination of desolation and 1,260 day, 42 month, 3 1/2 year period, which is 1/2 of seven years. I would agree that these periods that will happen in the future when the dragon and his proxy beast will be given power over the saints only covers one half the time required to be considered a 7-year period. But the other points from scripture are what lead me to place this 7-year period at the end, not some other mention of it tied to the end times. It's the events it speaks of that are clearly referenced elsewhere, many times in Daniel's writings themselves.

 

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5) Plenty of presumptions are offered that string together two 1260-day prophecies (of which there are a number), which theories purport to prove there is a 7-year period broken exactly in its middle when “the Antichrist” reneges on his covenant. But, like the witnesses that testified against Jesus at his trial, “their testimonies [do] not agree” with each other. Mark 14:56

 

How so?

 

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Also, they can provide no secondary scripture that speaks about blood-sacrifice [זֶבַח] being resumed before the return of the Messiah. Daniel 12:11 does not use this term; 9:27 has its only use in Daniel.

 

The same can be said for several other verses, which we knew Antiochus IV forbade all the sacrifice and oblation.

 

Daniel 11:31

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

Daniel 8:11

Yea, he magnified [himself] even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily [sacrifice] was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

 

The daily was the continual sacrifice to be offered evening and morning according to the Law of Moses.

 

Exodus 29:38

Now this [is that] which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually (H8548 - Daily). 39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even: And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine [for] a drink offering. And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD. [This shall be] a continual burnt offering throughout your generations [at] the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee. And there I will meet with the children of Israel, and [the tabernacle] shall be sanctified by my glory.

 

In the context of this same chapter, Daniel states his vision began about the time of the evening oblation.

 

Daniel 9:21

Yea, whiles I [was] speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.[H4503]

 

I would say the context from scripture and history is pretty clear that when the "daily" is stopped, it is in references to the sacrifice and oblation that was part of perpetual statutes God gave Israel in the Mosaic Covenant to perform.

 

Regardless, in the larger context of the reason behind the daily sacrifice, it is not the stopping of the daily Yeshua told us to look for, it's the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel in regards to the future revealing of the man of sin. That is in Daniel 9:27 as well. However, it is typically paired with the stopping of the daily sacrifice that was dictated in Exodus 29:38, probably because it would be the most constant aspect of Jewish worship of God that is trying to be stopped.

 

Matthew 24:15

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

 

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6) They can provide no secondary prophecy about idol worship taking place somewhere on the edges/extremities of a Latter-Day Temple or Sanctuary. (Within such a sanctified place, yes: Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4. Outside of such place, no.)

 

Does one need more than these? Perhaps the wing is more literal than a building on the edges of the temple? "And upon/over a wing/corner shall be abominations/idols of a destroyer" Note

 

Exodus 25:17-22

And thou shalt make a mercy seat [of] pure gold: two cubits and a half [shall be] the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof. And thou shalt make two cherubims [of] gold, [of] beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: [even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. And the cherubims shall stretch forth [their] wings(H3671) on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings(H3671), and their faces [shall look] one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which [are] upon the ark of the testimony, of all [things] which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

 

The wings stretched over the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant, which was the seat of God in His temple. The abomination that makes desolate could therefore be the setting up of an idol to be worshiped in place of God in His house amongst His people. Historically that idol might be some carving of another god, or later a man declaring himself to be god demanding worship. He will destroy God's people, whether through deception to worship him over their God, or by death for refusing to worship him over their God.

 

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7) There are scriptures that say the King of the North will “come to his end” in the End Times, as will 2 Thessalonians 2ʼs Son of Perdition, and also the Little Horn of Daniel 7. However, the context of Daniel 9:26b-27 indicates that “the one coming in” is a commander who causes an army of his people to overwhelm and pour out destruction on someone else who has already brought desolation. But nothing in the passage says anything at all about the commander himself being overcome. That, however, is what most proponents of “the Antichrist” theory claim to be the case.

 

Verse 26b, IMO, is referring to 70 AD and the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and eventually all those who stood up against Rome until they were utterly defeated by Rome. The commander is not overcome, although I think he is killed and resurrected as depicted in Revelation 13. Indeed he is given power over the saints for 42 months starting at Daniel 12:1 just after he came to his end in Daniel 11:45. His ultimate end is when Yeshua returns to take the kingdoms at the end of His wrath in Revelation 19:20.

 

RE: Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 7: Were Verses 26b-27 Fulfilled Historically?

 

Let's say the 70th week was fulfilled in 73 AD. This doesn't negate the future abomination of desolation and rule of the man of sin for 42 months that is intricately tied with the rest of prophetic scripture regarding this time of great tribulation, escape for the bride, protection for Israel, wrath of God on the earth and the return of Christ to rule for 1,000 years.

 

Perhaps this is the fulfillment, perhaps it's another foreshadow. As I'm thinking about the rest of scripture and its prophecies, I'm realizing the 70th week is minimally important in reality. The framework of exact day prophecies still stands if not tied to a 70th week because the prophecies are still there. The first half is really somewhat silent anyway aside from the confirming a covenant with many for one week.

 

It's clear the Romans desolated Jerusalem and the temple and I have no doubt they placed idols all over the place. I suppose you haven't changed my mind and I suppose if the temple is rebuilt before the man of sin declares himself god in it we'll know for sure. I suppose this highlights the danger of not seeing the forest for the bark on one of the trees when focused in so close on one chapter/verse. Your study on what happened in the Roman destruction is interesting and I'll continue to ponder it.

[Triton57]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

Again, the Sixth Seal is mere Symbolic Imagery, there is no Sixth Seal Judgment, its Prophetic in nature, just like Joel 2:31.

 

I don't view the seals as judgments, they are precursors to opening the scroll to read the judgments. I agree it is prophetic and perhaps the opening of the seals is symbolic, but each one reveals real events that will happen and it tells of literal signs in the heavens that will follow the beginning of the dragon's persecution of Jews and Christians who refuse to worship him. It also heralds and comes before the day of the Lord and the wrath that follows as you mention in Joel 2:31.

[Triton57]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Troubles of Jacob lasts for 42 months, God's Wrath lasts for the exact same 42 months. How long does the Woman (Israel) in Rev. 12 hide for ? 1260 days. Jerusalem is not going to be destroyed, Jesus will rule from there, it will be conquered, but not destroyed.

 

Where does scripture say the time of Jacob's trouble last for 42 months? Jeremiah 30:4-7, Daniel 12:1, Matthew 24:15-22, and Mark 13:14-20 all speak of that same time of which Israel is saved out of. The abomination of desolation starts the 42 month reign of the antichrist and Israel is protected for 42 months from the dragon in the wilderness. Therefore, her protection must be after the antichrist is revealed and they can't exactly overlap because clearly Yeshua warns those in Judea of this unparalleled time and to run. And those written in the book are saved out of that time.

 

Revelation 12:13-17

Phase 1 begins (abomination of desolation, them in Judea): And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child]. Matthew 24:15-16 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Phase 1 ends (Woman protected): And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Phase 2 begins (Globally): And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Phase 2 ends (Christ return in glory): Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

So there is a 42 month reign of a dragon and his beast. It begins when the dragon is cast to earth and gives the beast his power and great authority. Revelation 13:5 He then immediately goes after those in Judea (Jacob's trouble), but the woman is taken on wings of a great eagle to be protected. Then the dragon turns his wrath on those not protected globally.

 

I think "Jacob's trouble" is that phase 1 of the great tribulation and 42 month reign of the antichrist. It is cut short for those in Judea when they are whisked away and protected in the wilderness for the remainder of the 42 months. I think this is clarified with Daniel 12:11, which says from the abomination of desolation is 1,290 days, so the time of Jacob's trouble would be around 30 days in length and both the time of the dragon given power and Israel's protection from the dragon would fit in the 1,290 days.

 

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The DOTL begins it all, the Anti-Christ can not go forth until the Asteroid hits.

 

I'm not sure where you get that timing. What does the second trumpet judgment have to do with the revealing of the antichrist?

[Triton57]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

I do not think that is what God is saying in Rev. 13, he is saying men can only serve 2 masters, you chose God or the World, which is Satan. The reason this has to be nuanced is God is showing us the whole of mankind, the Anti-Christ is only the E.U. President and they only Conquer the Mediterranean Sea Region, its a myth that he rules the Whole World. Yes, those in his area will be mandated to worship the Beast as GOD or die, but not elsewhere.

 

I used to hold the revived Rome theory and I can understand that perspective a bit. I agree about the serving one master, I think that's what the hour of temptation is all about during the reign of the antichrist.

 

I don't agree that the whole world won't be in on worshiping him and giving him their power.

 

Revelation 17:1-6

And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

 

The whore riding the beast is Jerusalem on which all the blood of the saints is found. The kings of the earth and its inhabitants have committed fornication with her. Looking through the history of Israel's relationship with God, it was always when they would go after other gods that they were adulterous and whores. This correlation fits with the end time when this false god will demand worship and kill those who do not. And all the earth is made drunk with the wind of her fornication. They are worshipping the beast.

 

Moreover, she is drunk on the blood of the saints and martyrs of Yeshua. This symbology of the winepress of the wrath of God and Yeshua's blood-stained garments can likewise be seen in this depiction where the fierceness of the winepress of the wrath of the dragon has produced the wine, or blood, on which the woman is drunk. Furthermore it is from this golden cup she drinks and the inhabitants of the earth are also drunk on.

 

I think this symbology is revealing an extremely dark time where much of the earth is either complicit or actively participating in the killing of the saints for the sake of the god they chose to worship.

[Montana Marv]

3 hours ago, Triton57 said:

We are not promised escape from the dragon, indeed we are promised tribulation. We are promised escape from the wrath of God. That wrath comes when Christ does at the day of the Lord, signified by the signs of the sixth seal after the abomination of desolation in the midst of the 70th week.

You may want to rethink this.

James 3:7 -Humble yourself to God and resist the Devil and he will flee from you.  Powerful Scripture for us N.T. Believers.  Been going on since Pentecost. even trials and tribulations have been going on since Pentecost.  Nothing to do with the Dragons appearance mid 70th Week.

Which wrath of God are we saved from.  Not the Wrath of the 70th Week. The separation of the Just and Unjust. Only two camps; those of the First Resurrection for the Just; and the Second Resurrection for all the Unjust, who end up in TLOF; we are saved from the final Wrath of God.  All Pre Flood saints/elect, O.T. saints/elect, N.T. saints/elect, and the elect during the 70 Week and the Just/elect alive throughout the Mill all are of the First Resurrection. None experience the Second Death.

All N.T. saints who have died already missed the Wrath in the 70th Week,  so will we who are still alive.

4 hours ago, Triton57 said:

I think it is a requirement for pre-trib to force God's dealing with the church and Israel at a distinctly separate time as it allows a line in the sand at the start of the 70th week before which the church MUST leave in order to fulfill this perceived segregation of duties God will perform with His church and His people Israel. Yes Israel is blinded until the fulness of the Gentiles, and that blindness will be lifted when Christ comes in glory and gathers the wise virgins (church) to Him and protects Israel in the wilderness who will be provoked to jealousy. And at which time the Lord will speak comfortably to her in the wilderness and she will once again call Him Lord and He will call her His people. Hosea 2:14-23

Israel as a people has been distinct and separate from all others since Jacob.  And still are.

If one would notice, the five wise go into the banquet, the five foolish end up going to TLOF.  The Bride will go first to the wedding chamber and later to the banquet, where the guests are.  Is one a guest of the Bridegroom, or is one the Bride of the Bridegroom.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Triton57]

On 9/7/2023 at 1:28 AM, Revelation Man said:

Jesus, Daniel and John overrides Paul on this, Jesus overrides everyone all the time as far as that goes. God had locked up much of the Daniel Prophesies until the very end of time, stuff like the 1335, the 1290 was hidden in the open because God locked it up on purpose. Paul is interpreting Jesus on the AoD as being a man, Jesus never says that. John in Rev. 13 says its an IMAGE. Jesus says the AoD stands in the holy place, not HE stands in the holy place. Besides, the AoD comes 30 ats before the Beast, that is why not understanding the 1335 and 1290 comes before the 1260 will always leave one in the dark.

Would you say this chart accurately represents your position on the 1260, 1290, and 1335 days?

[Montana Marv]

I refer to this time frame.

1260 days under the authority of the A/C and False Prophet (type of God the Son and God the Holy Spirit)

The A/D

1260 days under the authority of the Dragon (type of God the Father) The ungodly trinity.

The 30 days (1290 days from the A/D) - Length of time or duration of Armageddon. 1 1/2 to 2 or more billion people trying to occupy a 180 sq mile piece of land. The winepress.

The next 45 days (1335 days from the A/D) - Length of time or duration for the birds of the air to eat the flesh of men and horses.

Then the Second Coming, then the King enters the Temple through the gate facing East.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

On 10/31/2023 at 5:29 PM, Triton57 said:

The abomination of desolation, as defined by Daniel's vision of Antiochus IV to which Yeshua points...

Yeshua never pointed to Antiochus IV at all; not a peep about him. Antiochus IV's abomination was placed on the altar, which was in front of the sanctuary, not in it.  Yeshua's reference is to Dan. 12:11, which is End Times.

On 10/31/2023 at 5:29 PM, Triton57 said:

that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

Revelation 11:1-2

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God,

The Greek word for temple is heiron, whereas the word used in both passages above is naos, which means a sanctified place, with or without a building. Always check the original language before quoting English texts.

On 10/31/2023 at 5:29 PM, Triton57 said:

Verse 26b, IMO, is referring to 70 AD and the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and eventually all those who stood up against Rome until they were utterly defeated by Rome. The commander is not overcome, although I think he is killed and resurrected as depicted in Revelation 13.

Classic wild speculation without a shred of evidence. The Rev. 13 Beast is not even human: he is to ascend from the Abyss, and he has seven heads, neither ever said of any human.

Too hard to go into more detail cuz I'm on a tablet.

Edited November 2, 2023 by WilliamL

[Revelation Man]

On 10/31/2023 at 7:08 PM, Triton57 said:

Where does scripture say the time of Jacob's trouble last for 42 months?

As I think I tried to explain to you a while back, the KEY to all end time understandings is the 1335, 1290 and 1260. The Anti-Christ only becomes the Beast 30 days after the 1290. Stop, think & listen a bit, why would God allow the coming Anti-Christs conquering and AoD  to be a sign? It would then be too late to flee Judea. That is Problem A-1 everyone assumes the Anti-Christ is the AoD, but he does not become the Beast for 30 more days, at the 1260 middle of the week even, as Dan. 12:7 says.

Dan. 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?(How many days?)

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen(Jesus preincarnate), which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half(1260 days); and when he(Beast) shall have accomplished to scatter the power (Conquer) of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So, from the time the Beast conquers Israel and takes away their power over the self rule of Israel, there will only be 1260 days until ALL THESE WONDERS (Dan. 11:36-45) ENDS !! (via the 2nd coming of course).

Israel CAN NOT BE CONQUERED until God allows the Beast to go forth conquering at the 1260 middle of the week event, thus Israel's troubles begin at the 1260, that is why she needs God's protection in Rev. 12 for 1260 days and for a Time, times and half, to make sure we understand its the exact same thing Daniel was referencing in Dan. 12:7. Understanding the Seals are prophetic in nature and not judgments clues us in on the facts that Seal 1-5 point to the coming Anti-Christ/Beasts 42 month reign of terror, and Seal #6 points towards God's wrath starting at the exact same time, over in Rev. 8, after the 3.5-5 million Jews flee Judea (The Woman of Rev. 12 and the 144,000 of Rev. 7 are one and the same, ALL Israel who repents). So, the 7th Seal starts God's Wrath with the Asteroid bring fire, then an IMPACT then a poison FALLOUT of some kind as in Wormwood, then the Sun & Moon's lights dim because of the smoke from the fires and the moon turns blood red (a red hue from the fires on earth).

God will not allow the Anti-Christ to go forth conquering Israel until the 1/3 repent as Zech. 13:8-9 shows us, and they do so JUST BEFORE the DOTL falls in Zech. 14:1. God only allows the Anti-Christ to go forth when His Wrath Falls, you know why? God uses him to apply wrath, he said to Israel once before, I give you the king you want. He gives the their hearts desire, that is a part of Gpd's wrath because God is releasing him, as the Seals show us, but he only does so at the First Trump. Satan can do nothing God does not allow. 

The Asteroid and the Beast conjoined gives us the Greatest troubles ever seen on earth for a 42 month period of time. The 1335 comes 1335 days before the 2nd coming ends all of these wonders 1335 days later (Two-witnesses come to turn Israel back unto God) then the False Prophet is the 1290 (A Jewish High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus, who welcomed Antiochus into the temple of God to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus and then MANDATED that all Jews must become Hellenized, like he did taking the name Jason, his real name was Yeshua he had his own pious high pries brother Onias III killed, he bribed Antiochus to be given the job. So, the Anti-Christ had an Archetype in Antiochus, so of course the False Prophet had to have an Archetype living under Antiochus, otherwise it would not be a true shadow of things to come.

On 10/31/2023 at 7:08 PM, Triton57 said:

The abomination of desolation starts the 42 month reign of the antichrist and Israel is protected for 42 months from the dragon in the wilderness. Therefore, her protection must be after the antichrist is revealed and they can't exactly overlap because clearly Yeshua warns those in Judea of this unparalleled time and to run. And those written in the book are saved out of that time.

No, the AoD starts 30 days before the Wrath of God falls. The 1290 is the False Prophet, the Anti-Christs side kick. He orders Jesus worship to be stopped or forbids it after the 1335 Two-witnesses get Israel to repent just before the DOTL God's Wrath falls. 3.5-5 million Jews start worshiping Jesus, many go to the temple, naturally, and sing about Jesus no doubt, and this Jewish High Priest False Prophet, who is in league with the Anti-Christ at that time, 30 days before the A.C. becomes the Beast, puts out an edict, no Jesus worship in the temple of God (TAKES AWAY........THE REAL SACRIFICE) and then cheekily places an Image of the A.C. or E.U. President up in the temple, but why is he cozy with the E.U. President? Because the Covenant that is signed (Simply means Agreement) is this, its very simple, we overthink it, the AGREEMENT is............DRUM ROLL, Israel Joins the E.U. now it makes sense why the A.C. from afar has political sway over this man, a Jewish High Priest. I didn't just guess, I worked hard on an Exegesis to Dan. 11 & 12 and saw that a man named Jason was like unto the end time False Prophet, there is like 7 chapters about this on man in the 2nd book of Maccabeans. His brother was the Holy man mentioned in Dan. 11:22, the prince of the covenant who was broken(Onias III). I name every king and player in Dan. 11, Cleopatra is even in there. 

The Anti-Christ rules 1260 days (not 1290) and the Jews who repent are protected for 1260 days from the Anti-Christ, thus this is parallel in timing.

On 10/31/2023 at 7:08 PM, Triton57 said:

Revelation 12:13-17

Phase 1 begins (abomination of desolation, them in Judea): And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child]. Matthew 24:15-16 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Does not match, the Dragon chases the Woman for only 1260 days, not 1290 days, the AoD is the 1290 so Matt. 24:15-17 happens 30 days before the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering Israel. 

On 10/31/2023 at 7:08 PM, Triton57 said:

So there is a 42 month reign of a dragon and his beast. It begins when the dragon is cast to earth and gives the beast his power and great authority. Revelation 13:5 He then immediately goes after those in Judea (Jacob's trouble), but the woman is taken on wings of a great eagle to be protected. Then the dragon turns his wrath on those not protected globally.

What you described as Phase 1 and 2 covers the exact same timeline, Satan has 1260 days to chase the woman and the Remnant of her seed. Jesus is her seed, see Gal. 3:16, thus the Church who come to Christ during the 70th week is that Remnant, because THE CHURCH is in heaven, thus she's the Remnant Body of Christ still on earth. Satan kills the 2/3 Jewish saints (saints means Jews overall here) but the 1/3 flee to the Petra/Bozrah area where the Dragon can not touch them. The Remnant can thus only be the Remnant Church(proving again a pre trib rapture), this is very easy to prove.  The 2/3 can not be remnant by the very number being larger than the 1/3 AND they do not have the testimony of Jesus. The only Remnant the Dragon can turn and get at is "The Church" or the body of Christ THE SEED of Israel.

On 10/31/2023 at 7:08 PM, Triton57 said:

I think "Jacob's trouble" is that phase 1 of the great tribulation and 42 month reign of the antichrist. It is cut short for those in Judea when they are whisked away and protected in the wilderness for the remainder of the 42 months. I think this is clarified with Daniel 12:11, which says from the abomination of desolation is 1,290 days, so the time of Jacob's trouble would be around 30 days in length and both the time of the dragon given power and Israel's protection from the dragon would fit in the 1,290 days.

 

Naa, you have it all twisted up brother. Jacob's troubles is the 42 months of God's wrath where a part of that wrath is allowing the A.C. to Conquer Israel, he therefore becomes the 7th Head of the figurative 7 headed beast. 

NO TIME is cut short, Jesus was PROPHESYING 2000 years ago that he would kill the Beast, therefore SHORTEN the TROBULES his evil rule brought to the world via God's allowance. So, when God's 42 month time period runs out, Jesus will show up an SHORTEN the Beasts rule on earth by killing him. The time of Jacobs troubles is1260 days just as Dan. 12:7 says ALL THESE WONDERS will end after a Time, Times and Half [Time]. (1260 days.

On 10/31/2023 at 7:08 PM, Triton57 said:

I'm not sure where you get that timing. What does the second trumpet judgment have to do with the revealing of the antichrist?

Its the First Four Trumps, they are ONE Asteroid Impact. God only allows him to go forth conquering at this time OR he chooses to go forth at this time for Military reasons. The USA is the 1/3 that gets burned to smithereens, so the whole New World will be set ablaze, now Satan is very intelligent, unlike most men He understand prophecy somewhat. He knows Apophis is the DOTL God's Wrath, so if you want to attack Israel wait for CHAOS in the world, wait for a Super Power to be put of of commission, after God himself put Russia, Iran and Turkeys Armies out of commission. Lets see, Nor Russia, Iran or Turkish armies and  a MEDDLING (as Most sees it) USA is out of the picture, that gives you free reign, plus you move in by the cover of all this chaos, while the whole world is trying to help stop the burning in "The Americas" the Anti-Christ STRIKES because his commander is Satan, a very intelligent being.

On 10/31/2023 at 7:09 PM, Triton57 said:

I used to hold the revived Rome theory and I can understand that perspective a bit. I agree about the serving one master, I think that's what the hour of temptation is all about during the reign of the antichrist.

 

I will pick up here tomorrow, got to get some sleep. God Bless.