Marilyn C Posted February 3 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,225 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,512 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Online Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted February 3 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: Seems a poor choice of location for a meeting to me. I tend to think God is pleased when He is honored. worthy That He is honored in design and careful construction of buildings that have thought behind their design, and are built with sacrificial labor and finances put into them. Not that they are holy but that God is! Also I believe God wants order in his house not just a tumble on the cow paddies. What has he said to people that took their place of corporate worship casually and treated it carelessly in the past: “Thus speaks the Lord of hosts, saying: ‘This people says, “The time has not come, the time that the Lord’s house should be built.” Then the word of the Lord came by Haggai the prophet, saying, “Is it time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, and this [a]temple to lie in ruins?” Now therefore, thus says the Lord of hosts: “Consider your ways! “You have sown much, and bring in little; You eat, but do not have enough; You drink, but you are not filled with drink; You clothe yourselves, but no one is warm; And he who earns wages, Earns wages to put into a bag with holes.” Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Consider your ways! Go up to the mountains and bring wood and build the temple, that I may take pleasure in it and be glorified,” says the Lord. Hi Neighbor, Israel had to worship the Lord God through a Temple as the `way` had not been made available, (Christ`s sacrifice). Only the High Priest could go into the Holy of Holies once a year with the blood, incense and fire, as God required. The building of the Tabernacle and Temple were all of God`s plans. The Body of Christ, however, is the temple of the Holy Spirit because the `way` has been made to enter into the very presence of God by Christ`s sacrifice, His precious blood. Did you know that John Wesley preached in the fields to the people who gathered. No building there but the preaching of the word to the expectant crowd. The man `authorities` in the beautiful buildings would not allow Wesley to preach there, so he went into the `highways and byways.` All that matters is that God`s word is preached. We, today have received of the great truths that Wesley preached back then by the Holy Spirit. Great missionaries came from that preaching. They went to darkest Africa and preached to the natives there. Many missionaries died there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted February 3 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 957 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,631 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,079 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted February 3 Yes I realize. And wherever two or three are gathered in the name of my Lord and savior Yeshua the Holy Spirit is present. Yet the Holy Spirit indwells me is also present wherever I am. I realize that. NONETHLESS the idea the my Lord who also spoke mightily outside during his sermon on the mount, mightier than did Billy Garham outside at His travling revival meetings that I attended at Tampa, there is NO justfication in any of that for stating one should treat the corporate gathering of the saints to worship Yeshua as a field trip over cow patties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted February 3 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 957 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,631 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,079 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted February 3 On 8/27/2023 at 7:56 PM, backontrack said: Is it possible that we may be at the beginning of the next great awakening in some churches and the death in others! I went to a church today that once had over 2,000 members all I saw was just a hand full in the building. The one I went to last week had 1,000's and seemed to be on fire and almost 30 people came forward to receive Christ and probably that many Baptized. Most of the first church were older adults and the 2ad church were mixed young and old. I felt the holy Spirit in both so why was there so much of a difference, I enjoyed both but the one that was on fire was electrifying. Both Churches were very friendly and gave us a nice welcome and had great messages I do not get it! Hi, Local church bodies are often in flux as far as their numbers. I suggest that the numbers do not necessarily reflect the"quality" nor the accuracy of anything at all. That if I am of a mindset to want to find fault in one or another I will easily find that flaw to point out. Why I myself have been able to find fault with the gatherings at the massive Crystal Cathedral under Robert Schuller and a tiny Church of Christ that housed a maximum of 75 and wanted no more. If one is seeking a man to follow therein becomes the problem, for that overseer is a man, who will fail in some manner. One may rally around Him when He does, helping him recover, or one may flee from the local church body where he labors, giving Satan a victory. The failure of a local body to stay together and comfort one another is a lesson a hard one to go through. The lesson being to be careful be following Yeshua not any man nor his Style. The prince of pastors, (now there is an ear tickling praise eh?) Rev. Charles H. Spurgeon inherited a mighty congregation, and building. He gave a whole sermon encouraging "his" members to go visit and worship elsewhere in order to encourage other pastors whose attendance was minimal, in order to give them encouragement in their labors for and under our Lord. He too faced naysayers. He also had to issue tickets for attendance the demand to hear him evidently being so great. The point? Do not judge by the size of a building nor the popularity of it's leadership; instead be led by the Holy Spirit, not by the feet of men. Do not join up in a coalition of disdainful men. Force such men to go through the process that is Matthew 18. Do not exhibit disdain for leadership, God has structure and so does the local bodies of Christ Jesus. that because it is a good thing also requires housing for those that want to worship God under that good leadership's structuring. Be sure to keep the houses where the saints gather clean, well maintained. Plus do go out into all the world with the gospel of Yeshua, even stepping on worse than a cow patty to do so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RdJ Posted February 3 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 642 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/25/1970 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 10 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Here in OZ the church organizations that are growing are the ones who are preaching `Kingdom Now,` theology. They believe that the church (organizations and congregations) will take over the` 7 mountains` of society and then deliver it to the Lord when He comes. The `7 mountains` are - government, education, law, media, entertainment, sport, arts. They believe that as long as a `good` person or Christian is in charge of those areas then we will have reached that goal. They believe that `rapture` doctrine is negative and they say they preach `hope` for this next generation. They don`t preach that up front all the time, but you can check out their beliefs and you will find it. The focus is on `feelings` and having the `atmosphere of the presence of God. ` Hyping people up brings its own atmosphere. Be wary. Well, all I can say is that when the Peace negotiator comes on the scene, East will mix with West and there will seem to be `Peace and Safety.` I was adding people on Facebook some years ago cause one was in the Newspapers cause he asked a woman whose husband or boyfriend killed her children if he could raise them from the dead and everyone was mad at him and I was like: hmm interesting, finally someone who believes that stuff, although it was not smart to ask her. So then I got a load of Facebook friends who went to the street to pray for ppl for healing and preach the Gospel. First it was great, such enthusiastic people and I also went to the Bible school of one at the other side of the country. He got 2000 new souls in with a small group in 2 years by just sharing the Gospel on the street. It was amazing how God was present there. Made me think of the widow who kept pooring oil in the empty vessels. They keep looking for empty vessels. But there was also a guy in my city and more of em who were indeed Kingdom Now and we wanted to work together with him, but the church had replaced Israel and he invited some dangerous false teacher and he's not even a pastor, but that church he goes to lets him preach and let him invite that guy. Edited February 3 by Renskedejonge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted February 3 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 201 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,456 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 2,316 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted February 3 5 hours ago, Neighbor said: Do not exhibit disdain for leadership, God has structure and so does the local bodies of Christ Jesus. that because it is a good thing also requires housing for those that want to worship God under that good leadership's structuring. Be sure to keep the houses where the saints gather clean, well maintained. Plus do go out into all the world with the gospel of Yeshua, even stepping on worse than a cow patty to do so. I have to admit that my first reaction was to say that maybe to have the best of both, we should have something like they have with our local professional football stadium - grass on a moving platform that comes inside the building (cow patties and all)! (imagine a LOL emoji here) But seriously, I think I get your point. I don't have as much regard for nice structures and formalities and what I see as man's organization when it comes to the assembling of ourselves. In truth, it makes little difference, as you have pointed out --> the important thing is Christ living in and through each of His saints, and He can do that no matter what the setting is! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backontrack Posted February 3 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,213 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 185 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 3 6 hours ago, Neighbor said: Hi, Local church bodies are often in flux as far as their numbers. I suggest that the numbers do not necessarily reflect the"quality" nor the accuracy of anything at all. That if I am of a mindset to want to find fault in one or another I will easily find that flaw to point out. Why I myself have been able to find fault with the gatherings at the massive Crystal Cathedral under Robert Schuller and a tiny Church of Christ that housed a maximum of 75 and wanted no more. If one is seeking a man to follow therein becomes the problem, for that overseer is a man, who will fail in some manner. One may rally around Him when He does, helping him recover, or one may flee from the local church body where he labors, giving Satan a victory. The failure of a local body to stay together and comfort one another is a lesson a hard one to go through. The lesson being to be careful be following Yeshua not any man nor his Style. The prince of pastors, (now there is an ear tickling praise eh?) Rev. Charles H. Spurgeon inherited a mighty congregation, and building. He gave a whole sermon encouraging "his" members to go visit and worship elsewhere in order to encourage other pastors whose attendance was minimal, in order to give them encouragement in their labors for and under our Lord. He too faced naysayers. He also had to issue tickets for attendance the demand to hear him evidently being so great. The point? Do not judge by the size of a building nor the popularity of it's leadership; instead be led by the Holy Spirit, not by the feet of men. Do not join up in a coalition of disdainful men. Force such men to go through the process that is Matthew 18. Do not exhibit disdain for leadership, God has structure and so does the local bodies of Christ Jesus. that because it is a good thing also requires housing for those that want to worship God under that good leadership's structuring. Be sure to keep the houses where the saints gather clean, well maintained. Plus do go out into all the world with the gospel of Yeshua, even stepping on worse than a cow patty to do so. I know nothing about the Cathedral Chaple, nor do I wish to address anything about any church other than history has proven this! Azuza Street, Wigglesworth, Spurgin, Lake, Whitefield, Edwards and more all started with a hunger for God a hunger we have never experienced. Much of the Awakenings spread worldwide. Had nothing to do with different denominations it fell on them all. How hungry are! We at James River Church are very hungry very and we gather calling on God to invade all Churches and all states. We are seeing the results of it and it's growing. Will there be another Great Awakening only God knows but we would and believe God will answers our pleas. We trust only in him not man! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted February 3 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,219 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 333 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted February 3 (edited) On 8/27/2023 at 7:56 PM, backontrack said: Is it possible that we may be at the beginning of the next great awakening in some churches and the death in others! I went to a church today that once had over 2,000 members all I saw was just a hand full in the building. The one I went to last week had 1,000's and seemed to be on fire and almost 30 people came forward to receive Christ and probably that many Baptized. Most of the first church were older adults and the 2ad church were mixed young and old. I felt the holy Spirit in both so why was there so much of a difference, I enjoyed both but the one that was on fire was electrifying. Both Churches were very friendly and gave us a nice welcome and had great messages I do not get it! 1968 Google it. 1968 That year was a paradigm shift in the fortunes of nearly every nation on this planet. A NY Times reporter wrote that 1968 was "one G..D... thing after another." It was THAT bad! The year before, Israel's IDF liberated the city of Jerusalem and the temple mount. Some very odd things began to happen after that event. Apart from some very disturbing political events, the Jesus movement began. It was the LAST national revival in America, the LAST revival in a nation that had experienced a spiritual revival in each generation since it was founded. It was the LAST time the name of Jesus would be respected in America. It was also the FIRST time the kingdom of satan would be honored by our media in the summer release of the movie Rosemary's Baby. Two spiritual trends began to work in the world in 1968. The church began to wither and die, although it wouldn't be noticed by statistics for several decades. In that same year and at the same time the Messianic Jewish movement began to gain traction - also not recognized as a movement for several decades. The political fortunes of the United States began to unravel - the tide of American power and influence would begin to erode - never to return to its former glory. The Great Awakening, proudly proclaimed by the American church, never materialized. It was a contrast between divine hope vs. human expediency. The Jesus movement provided the foundation for personal faith for countless millions, but it did nothing for the organized church because the church didn't want it. The Great Awakening never materialized because American religious leaders really don't want it. They certainly want donation$, which are inspired by empty claims for revival, but without real accompanying action such hopes require. What is literally being DONE and DIRECTED by our religious leaders? Nothing of substance. There are lots of empty promises and lots of manipulation leading to donation$, but nothing producing increased numbers has materialized. Numbers tell the truth our leaders refuse to reveal. According to PEW and Gallup polls, among others, regular church attendance has fallen to less than 40% of 1948 levels. Even the Vatican has admitted there's a problem. What are our leaders DOING about it? They call for more donation$, which are squandered on pointless unprofitable projects and 'ministries'. Prior to 2020 and the COVID plague, the average congregation in America was in debt more than THREE MILLION dollars. Many churches closed their doors that year because they simply couldn't pay their bills....couldn't make good on their promises to pay. Today the lies about Awakening continue, but the only reality we see is preachers who tell their congregations to be 'content'....and then wonder why their congregations are so apathetic. Does anybody know what's going on? Does anybody really care or do we just keep lying to ourselves...pretending that everything is ok when its not? Those within the church do not acknowledge the church is dying. They sit apathetically and do nothing. Those outside know the church is dying. They do nothing because they don't care. 1968 was the year of spiritual change. What are we changing to and where does the change lead us? Does anybody care or do we just keep denying it and arguing about it? that's me, hollering from the choir loft... Isaiah 6:9-11 Edited February 3 by choir loft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RdJ Posted February 3 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 642 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/25/1970 Share Posted February 3 4 hours ago, backontrack said: I know nothing about the Cathedral Chaple, nor do I wish to address anything about any church other than history has proven this! Azuza Street, Wigglesworth, Spurgin, Lake, Whitefield, Edwards and more all started with a hunger for God a hunger we have never experienced. Much of the Awakenings spread worldwide. Had nothing to do with different denominations it fell on them all. How hungry are! We at James River Church are very hungry very and we gather calling on God to invade all Churches and all states. We are seeing the results of it and it's growing. Will there be another Great Awakening only God knows but we would and believe God will answers our pleas. We trust only in him not man! I hope so. We prayed for revival with church for years, but the whole bunch collapsed and now I don't know anymore, well except in Africa and such where they always have revival, but in the West I hope so. There will be revival during the trib, but I hope before too. Wigglesworth said there would be a world wide revival. https://prophecytoday.uk/study/prophetic-insights/item/389-testing-prophecies-together-smith-wigglesworth-s-1947-prophecy.html During the next few decades there will be two distinct moves of the Holy Spirit across the church in Great Britain. The first move will affect every church that is open to receive it, and will be characterised by the restoration of the baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit. The second move of the Holy Spirit will result in people leaving historic churches and planting new churches. In the duration of each of these moves, the people who are involved will say, 'This is a great revival.' But the Lord says, 'No, neither is this the great revival but both are steps towards it.' When the new church phase is on the wane, there will be evidence in the churches of something that has not been seen before: a coming together of those with an emphasis on the word and those with an emphasis on the Spirit. When the word and the Spirit come together, there will be the biggest move of the Holy Spirit that the nations, and indeed, the world have ever seen. It will mark the beginning of a revival that will eclipse anything that has been witnessed within these shores, even the Wesleyan and Welsh revivals of former years. The outpouring of God's Spirit will flow over from the United Kingdom to mainland Europe, and from there, will begin a missionary move to the ends of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backontrack Posted February 3 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,213 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 185 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, Renskedejonge said: I hope so. We prayed for revival with church for years, but the whole bunch collapsed and now I don't know anymore, well except in Africa and such where they always have revival, but in the West I hope so. There will be revival during the trib, but I hope before too. Wigglesworth said there would be a world wide revival. https://prophecytoday.uk/study/prophetic-insights/item/389-testing-prophecies-together-smith-wigglesworth-s-1947-prophecy.html During the next few decades there will be two distinct moves of the Holy Spirit across the church in Great Britain. The first move will affect every church that is open to receive it, and will be characterised by the restoration of the baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit. The second move of the Holy Spirit will result in people leaving historic churches and planting new churches. In the duration of each of these moves, the people who are involved will say, 'This is a great revival.' But the Lord says, 'No, neither is this the great revival but both are steps towards it.' When the new church phase is on the wane, there will be evidence in the churches of something that has not been seen before: a coming together of those with an emphasis on the word and those with an emphasis on the Spirit. When the word and the Spirit come together, there will be the biggest move of the Holy Spirit that the nations, and indeed, the world have ever seen. It will mark the beginning of a revival that will eclipse anything that has been witnessed within these shores, even the Wesleyan and Welsh revivals of former years. The outpouring of God's Spirit will flow over from the United Kingdom to mainland Europe, and from there, will begin a missionary move to the ends of the earth. Ironic James River is planting many churches not only in the USA but abroad many! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backontrack Posted February 3 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,213 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 185 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 3 13 hours ago, Neighbor said: Hi, Local church bodies are often in flux as far as their numbers. I suggest that the numbers do not necessarily reflect the"quality" nor the accuracy of anything at all. That if I am of a mindset to want to find fault in one or another I will easily find that flaw to point out. Why I myself have been able to find fault with the gatherings at the massive Crystal Cathedral under Robert Schuller and a tiny Church of Christ that housed a maximum of 75 and wanted no more. If one is seeking a man to follow therein becomes the problem, for that overseer is a man, who will fail in some manner. One may rally around Him when He does, helping him recover, or one may flee from the local church body where he labors, giving Satan a victory. The failure of a local body to stay together and comfort one another is a lesson a hard one to go through. The lesson being to be careful be following Yeshua not any man nor his Style. The prince of pastors, (now there is an ear tickling praise eh?) Rev. Charles H. Spurgeon inherited a mighty congregation, and building. He gave a whole sermon encouraging "his" members to go visit and worship elsewhere in order to encourage other pastors whose attendance was minimal, in order to give them encouragement in their labors for and under our Lord. He too faced naysayers. He also had to issue tickets for attendance the demand to hear him evidently being so great. The point? Do not judge by the size of a building nor the popularity of it's leadership; instead be led by the Holy Spirit, not by the feet of men. Do not join up in a coalition of disdainful men. Force such men to go through the process that is Matthew 18. Do not exhibit disdain for leadership, God has structure and so does the local bodies of Christ Jesus. that because it is a good thing also requires housing for those that want to worship God under that good leadership's structuring. Be sure to keep the houses where the saints gather clean, well maintained. Plus do go out into all the world with the gospel of Yeshua, even stepping on worse than a cow patty to do so. It is all about LOVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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