The 7th Trump is the Last Trump

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, transmogrified said:

 Neither- Paul’s Gospel is in Harmony with what John wrote- There is a misunderstanding of what we are talking about .. I am talking about the resurrection of the dead in Christ at the second coming not the resurrection at the end of the MK

So you believe those who's names are written in the book of life of the Lamb do not belong to Christ.Thats interesting.Who do you suppose resurected them?

 

¹² And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

¹³ And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

¹⁴ And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

¹⁵ And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[transmogrified]

59 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you believe those who's names are written in the book of life of the Lamb do not belong to Christ.Thats interesting.Who do you suppose resurected them?

Those whose names are written in the book of life belong to Christ.. You are again pointing to the Great white throne judgment resurrection at the end of the MK - 
I am talking about NO SELECT  GROUP OF SAINTS WILL BE RESURRECTED OUTSIDE OF THE OTHER SAINTS AT THE SECOND COMING, You are pointing to the resurrection at the end as proof that Paul is in conflict with John so you have to accept Revelation..   You are setting up a straw man argument..

 The last trump does not sound at the end of the MK - PAUL IS NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY RESURRECTION AT THE END OF THE MK.. YOU ARE SETTING IT UP SO TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS A CONFLICT WHEN JOHN IS NOT SAYING TWO GROUPS  OF SAINTS  ARE BEING RESURRECTED AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES AT THE SECOND .. AT THE SECOND COMING… AT THE SECOND COMING … NOT NOT NOT  THE END OF THE MK 

FALSE COMPARISON!!!!

[Shilohsfoal]

32 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

Those whose names are written in the book of life belong to Christ.. You are again pointing to the Great white throne judgment resurrection at the end of the MK - 
I am talking about NO SELECT  GROUP OF SAINTS WILL BE RESURRECTED OUTSIDE OF THE OTHER SAINTS AT THE SECOND COMING, You are pointing to the resurrection at the end as proof that Paul is in conflict with John so you have to accept Revelation..   You are setting up a straw man argument..

 The last trump does not sound at the end of the MK - PAUL IS NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY RESURRECTION AT THE END OF THE MK.. YOU ARE SETTING IT UP SO TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS A CONFLICT WHEN JOHN IS NOT SAYING TWO GROUPS  OF SAINTS  ARE BEING RESURRECTED AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES AT THE SECOND .. AT THE SECOND COMING… AT THE SECOND COMING … NOT NOT NOT  THE END OF THE MK 

FALSE COMPARISON!!!!

So you agree that the peoples names who are written in the book of life of the lamb belong to Christ.

Well ,that's why the book of life is opened after the millennium.Because some of the  people who are being resurected after the millinium names are written in that book.

 

¹² And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

¹³ And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

¹⁴ And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

¹⁵ And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[transmogrified]

47 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Well ,that's why the book of life is opened after the millennium.Because some of the  people who are being resurected after the millinium names are written in that book.

That is not what Paul said.. Again you are avoiding what Paul said and making straw man arguments to avoid what is clearly and plainly stated by Paul

Did Paul say- Behold I show you a mystery some of us will be changed at the last trump and the others will be changed later? Of course not. 
Why? BECAUSE HE IMPOSES THE TIME FRAME HE IS TALKING ABOUT UPON HIMSELF.. THE LAST TRUMP DOES NOT SOUND AT  THE END OF THE MK

HE IS TALKING ABOUT  ALL BEING CHANGED AT THE LAST TRUMP… It is a ridiculous argument.. ALL THE SAINTS CAN NOT COME BACK WITH JESUS IF ALL HAVE NOT BEEN FIRST CHANGED AND RAPTURED UP IN ORDER THAT THEY CAN COME BACK WITH HIM..

DID PAUL SAY JESUS WOULD  COME AND PART OF HIS SAINTS?

NO AND NO AND NO!!! He said ALL HIS SAINTS NOT PART OF THE SAINTS

DID ZECH SAY THE LORD MY GOD SHALL COME AND PART OF HIS SAINTS? NO AND NO!!! He said ALL HIS SAINTS .. ALL HIS SAINTS DOES NOT MEAN PART OF HIS SAINTS - ALL MEANS ALL 

DID JESUS SAY THE  HOUR COMES WHEN PART OF THEM THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE AND COME FORTH? NO AND NO … ALL THOSE IN THE GRAVES WILL COME FORTH

 WHEN JESUS SET ALL PEOPLE  BEFORE HIM DOES THAT MEAN HE SET PART OF THE PEOPLE BEFORE HIM? NO AND NO AND NO!!

  WHEN HE GATHERED THE WHEAT INTO HIS BARN DID  HE HE SAY GATHER PART OF THE WHEAT INTO MY BARN AND LEAVE THE REST TO BE GATHERED IN THE NEXT AGE?  NO AND NO AND NO!!!

 

   

[Shilohsfoal]

33 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

That is not what Paul said.. Again you are avoiding what Paul said and making straw man arguments to avoid what is clearly and plainly stated by Paul

Did Paul say- Behold I show you a mystery some of us will be changed at the last trump and the others will be changed later? Of course not. 
Why? BECAUSE HE IMPOSES THE TIME FRAME HE IS TALKING ABOUT UPON HIMSELF.. THE LAST TRUMP DOES NOT SOUND AT  THE END OF THE MK

HE IS TALKING ABOUT  ALL BEING CHANGED AT THE LAST TRUMP… It is a ridiculous argument.. ALL THE SAINTS CAN NOT COME BACK WITH JESUS IF ALL HAVE NOT BEEN FIRST CHANGED AND RAPTURED UP IN ORDER THAT THEY CAN COME BACK WITH HIM..

DID PAUL SAY JESUS WOULD  COME AND PART OF HIS SAINTS?

NO AND NO AND NO!!! He said ALL HIS SAINTS NOT PART OF THE SAINTS

DID ZECH SAY THE LORD MY GOD SHALL COME AND PART OF HIS SAINTS? NO AND NO!!! He said ALL HIS SAINTS .. ALL HIS SAINTS DOES NOT MEAN PART OF HIS SAINTS - ALL MEANS ALL 

DID JESUS SAY THE  HOUR COMES WHEN PART OF THEM THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE AND COME FORTH? NO AND NO … ALL THOSE IN THE GRAVES WILL COME FORTH

 WHEN JESUS SET ALL PEOPLE  BEFORE HIM DOES THAT MEAN HE SET PART OF THE PEOPLE BEFORE HIM? NO AND NO AND NO!!

  WHEN HE GATHERED THE WHEAT INTO HIS BARN DID  HE HE SAY GATHER PART OF THE WHEAT INTO MY BARN AND LEAVE THE REST TO BE GATHERED IN THE NEXT AGE?  NO AND NO AND NO!!!

 

   

I don't remember Paul writing anything about the book of life.But then again there are many things in the book of revelation Paul did not write about and probably never heard of.I understand Paul being an ex pharisee had studied former prophets of Israel and most of his knowledge concerning Israel would have came from those prophets once his eyes were opened.

But as we both know,Paul was not chosen to write revelation .John was after Paul had died.So it was given to John to prophesy before many peoples at the time of the end.

 

Do I need to capitalize everything for you?,It appears you may have a problem seeing what you are typing.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[transmogrified]

34 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

don't remember Paul writing anything about the book of life

You are not acknowledging Paul when he is the wise master builder.. he laid the foundation and there is no other foundation that is laid ..

 We are built on the foundation of apostles and prophets Jesus being the chief corner stone.. You don’t accept Zech. Or Paul saying all the saints will return with Jesus.. you don’t accept Jesus saying he will gather his elect from the uttermost parts of heaven to the uttermost parts of the earth, and you don’t accept the revelation God gave to Paul even though it does not contradict John in any way.. you are conflating two time periods and saying they don’t fit.. of course they don’t fit - The scenario at the end of the MK enormously different than when Jesus comes.

It is obvious the last trump does not sound at the end of the MK , it is obvious all the saints will not return with Jesus with what you are saying… it’s obvious all WON’T be changed at the last trump according to what you are saying and it’s obvious you do not believe what Paul or Zech. said, and you are attempting to pit  Paul against John in a false argument - You have no case - All of the saints will be changed at the last trump.. There will be another resurrection at the end of the 1000 years but that is not when the last trumpet sounds..

There will be no rapture at the last trump when just part of the saints will be changed.. there is no resurrection at the last trump that part of the dead in Christ will rise.. there will be no second coming with Jesus coming with part of his saints- You are turning your ears away from the truth unto fables …

[Shilohsfoal]

6 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

You are not acknowledging Paul when he is the wise master builder.. he laid the foundation and there is no other foundation that is laid ..

 We are built on the foundation of apostles and prophets Jesus being the chief corner stone.. You don’t accept Zech. Or Paul saying all the saints will return with Jesus.. you don’t accept Jesus saying he will gather his elect from the uttermost parts of heaven to the uttermost parts of the earth, and you don’t accept the revelation God gave to Paul even though it does not contradict John in any way.. you are conflating two time periods and saying they don’t fit.. of course they don’t fit - The scenario at the end of the MK enormously different than when Jesus comes.

It is obvious the last trump does not sound at the end of the MK , it is obvious all the saints will not return with Jesus with what you are saying… it’s obvious all WON’T be changed at the last trump according to what you are saying and it’s obvious you do not believe what Paul or Zech. said, and you are attempting to pit  Paul against John in a false argument - You have no case - All of the saints will be changed at the last trump.. There will be another resurrection at the end of the 1000 years but that is not when the last trumpet sounds..

There will be no rapture at the last trump when just part of the saints will be changed.. there is no resurrection at the last trump that part of the dead in Christ will rise.. there will be no second coming with Jesus coming with part of his saints- You are turning your ears away from the truth unto fables …

Ok,so you believe Paul is the wise master builder of God's temple.

Well praise Paul.

 

Would you like to add anything else to scripture?Or is there anything else you would like to remove from revelation?

Edited September 26, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[DeighAnn]

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

IS THERE A BIBLE anywhere on the planet earth, THAT SAYS THESE DEAD


are in Christ?   


I figure since the ADDITION and SUBTRACTION of Scripture is going on for the PERSONAL RELIGIONs OF SOME IS in FULL EFFECT,


I would put forth  THE HARD CORE FACT that

not a single man, woman or child upon the planet earth CAN DISPUTE 

 THERE IS NO 'IN CHRIST' WRITTEN HERE.





Doesn't seem to matter OR even come into consideration that it ALSO falls right after  THE DECAY DOESNT INHERIT IMMORTALITY  (coincidence?)

NOR THAT GOD USED A DIFFERENT WORD FOR THE BODY the dead receive 

FROM THE ONE them who are changed do


but HOW EXACTLY is my believing exactly what is written as exactly what is meant TWISTED INTO ME BEING THE ONE WHO IS FOLLOWING A DIFFERENT GOSPEL? 

quite the trick.  


If I had a nickel for ALL THE TIMES I HEAR THOSE WORDS
 SO PEOPLE CAN KEEP THEIR PERSONAL RELIGION INTACT
while MAKING VOID THE WORDS OF GOD


I HAVE ALOT OF NICKELS


Then again, DON'T ANSWER, I already know as the ONLY POSSIBILITY IS
it's just another CONCLUSION OF MAN based UPON THE ASSUMPTION of MAN passed down by the TRADITIONS OF MAN that makes void the words of God.  


GET RID OF ALL BELIEFS and read it as written precept on precept....and you have Christ rising up,
the graves of them who slept opening up and THEM BEING RESURRECTED
followed by everyother man who NEVER DIES in their own order

 up to the last day when 
FINALLY, THE DEAD WHO HAVE BEEN IN THE GRAVE WAITING HIS RETURN to be resurrected, come up out from the place of the dead and to go to work trying to get their names in the book of life...

Then THEY along with them in the clouds

SEE THE GLORY OF GOD

WHEN ALL THOSE WHO HAVE ENDURED TO THE END

ARE CHANGED BEFORE THEIR VERY EYES

AND THEY WATCH THEM BEING CAUGHT UP TO THE CLOUDS

TO BE WITH CHRIST AND ALL THE HOLY SAINTS THAT RETURNED WITH HIM....THEY ALL HAVING BEEN RAISED UP

WHEN THEIR FLESH AND BLOOD WAS SOWN,

RAISED IN INCORRUPTION,
IN POWER
AND IN GLORY THEMSELVES,


NO ONE RECEIVING THE GIFT OF SALVATION EVER AGAIN GOING INTO THE CORRUPTION OF THE GRAVE

FROM THE DAY CHRIST GOT THE KEYS OF HELL AND DEATH, HIS WORK OF SALVATION COMPLETE.  

SO FROM THE DAY THE GRAVES WERE OPENED...EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER 


ALL OF THEM OF THE 1ST RESURRECTION WHICH IS OF 

RANK

NOT TIME



no excuses, no twisting, no conflict.  

YET I AM THE ONE HAVING ANOTHER GOSPEL?   

No HEAVENLY ETERNAL BODY COMING FROM THE DECAY THE CORRUPTION THE PLACE OF THE DEAD

BUT FROM GOD. 

DOESN'T THAT JUST SOUND RIGHT, HOLY RIGHTEOUS? 


JUST SAYING 

IF YOU READ IT AS WRITTEN...

 

THAT IS THE STORY GOD TELLS.  



 

Edited September 26, 2023 by DeighAnn

[Last Daze]

21 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Last Daze, you say that "7th trumpet heralds the descent of Christ to the clouds where He sounds the last trumpet, the trumpet of God." Which actually means, as you wrote it, that the 7th angelic trumpet will be the one before the last trumpet. So you seem to be disagreeing with Diaste.

Correct.  I see the last trumpet, the trumpet of God, as immediately subsequent to the seventh angelic trumpet, not the seventh trumpet itself.

[transmogrified]

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

IS THERE A BIBLE anywhere on the planet earth, THAT SAYS THESE DEAD


are in Christ?   

The scripture in 1 Thess. 4 calls those that sleep that come with Christ the dead in Christ...BUT WHEN THIS IS POINTED OUT, THEN YOU THEN SAY THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE WICKED UNBELIEVERS...SO THE POINT IS ABSOLUTELY MOOT...THIS IS HANDLING THE WORD OF GOD DECEITFULLY.. THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE NOT, NEVER WILL BE, NEVER CAN BE, THE WICKED DEAD...THIS IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE...AND ITS EVEN MORE FALSE BY MAKING THE CLAIM BECAUSE THIS SCRIPTURE DOES NOT SAY THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, IT CAN NOT BE REFERRING TO BELIEVERS...

If the claim was true that the 'dead in Christ' refers to wicked unbelievers, (which is preposterous) then why try to prove 'the dead' that are raised incorruptible are not believers because it doesn't use the phrase 'in Christ?' You can't have it both ways...if fact you have neither because the dead who are raised incorruptible are believers in 1 Cor. 15 just as much as the dead in Christ who are changed into incorruptible bodies are also believers in 1 Thess. 4

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

IS THERE A BIBLE anywhere on the planet earth, THAT SAYS THESE DEAD


are in Christ?   

Every translation I looked at says those who rise first are the dead in Christ...one says the 'dead in Messiah' another said 'Christians who have died..' all meaning the same thing...

And who are we to think Paul is talking about in the context of 1 Cor. 15: 51 -52?

Behold I show you a mystery...WE (the believers) shall not all sleep, but WE (the believers) shall all be changed...in a moment, in a twinkle of an eye, at the last trump...for the trumpet shall sound (what trumpet? The same trumpet he was just talking about that sounds when Christ comes and sets up his kingdom, i.e. the seventh and last trumpet...) and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

these are the  same one's Paul is talking about in 1 Cor. who rise incorruptible...he is talking about what? The resurrection of the dead...What is Paul talking about in 1 Thess. 4? The resurrection of the dead. Who is Paul talking about in 1 Thess. 4? Those who have died in Christ, but in this place he says they are 'those that sleep in Jesus' but doesn't use the word 'dead in Christ' in 1 Cor. 15 but it means the very same thing...Paul is talking about the same people in 1 Cor. and 1 Thess. 4...in BOTH SETTINGS HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE TIME IN WHICH THE DEAD BELIEVERS PUT ON IMMORTALITY...in one place he says 'all will be changed at the last trump,' in another place he is referring to the same thing by saying this will be when this saying is brought to pass that 'death is swallowed up in victory...'

IN BOTH SETTINGS, WHETHER THE LAST TRUMP OR WHEN DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY HAPPEN AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION WHEN CHRIST COMES...

Here is the time context  for when the saying  'then shall death be swallowed up in victory.' will be fulfilled... Is. 25: 7-8

"And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

Quote

***This is the Marriage supper of the Lamb at the end of the tribulation...this is NOT something that happens every time a believer dies...ABSOLUTELY FALSE...***

And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the veil that is spread over all nations...

Quote

***This is when all nations are converted at the end of the tribulation...NOT something that happens time a believer dies...ABSOLUTELY FALSE...***

He will swallow up death in victory;

Quote

***WHEN is this scripture going to be fulfilled? Every time a believer dies? ABSOLUTELY NO AND NO AND NO...THIS HAPPENS AFTER THE TRIBULATION WHEN THE NATIONS ARE CONVERTED, NOT AS EACH INDIVIDUAL BELIEVER DIES..***

and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all face and the rebuke of his people shall take away from off all the earth,

Quote

***And WHEN does the Lord wipe the rebuke off of Israel from off the earth? Every time a believer dies? ABSOLUTELY NOT...THIS IS FALSE, FALSE FALSE...Israel is converted at the Second coming, not every time a believer dies...***

for the Lord hath spoken it..."

So what is contained in just the scriptures just shown? IT SHOWS NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO CONFIRM ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT DEATH BEING SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY EVERY TIME A BELIEVER DIES...FALSE FALSE FALSE AND MORE FALSEHOODS!!!

Why did Paul say 'AND WHEN this mortal shall put on immortality THEN shall be brought to pass the saying that is written 'death is swallowed up in victory?' And if it is true that every time a person dies they put on immortality WHY are the scriptures pointing to a time AFTER THE TRIBULATION WHEN THIS SAYING SHALL BE FULFILLED? Because what you are saying has ABSOLUTELY NO VALIDITY WHATSOEVER!!

And why would Paul link these sayings to the time when the last trumpet would sound? BECAUSE HE IS SPECIFICALLY TELLING THE BELIEVERS WHEN THIS CHANGE WOULD HAPPEN...

"Behold I show you a mystery...we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in a twinkle of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP.'

This was the mystery that was not known but is now known...NOT JUST THAT ALL BELIEVERS WILL BE GIVEN IMMORTAL BODIES, BUT ALSO WHEN THIS CHANGE TO IMMORTALITY WOULD TAKE PLACE...

For Jesus had already told us we will be like the angels, being children of the resurrection, but he did not tell us WHEN it would happen, but just said 'those that shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world and the resurrection of the dead, and told us he would come with the great sound of a trumpet, but did not specifically say that would be when we would receive our glorified bodies, or that the trumpet that would sound would be the last one... BUT OF COURSE NOW IT IS CLEAR WHEN THIS CHANGE WOULD TAKE PLACE AND IT IS NOT WHEN EACH PERSON DIES BUT RATHER AT THE LAST TRUMP.... and when the saying 'death will be swallowed up in victory shall be fulfilled, after the tribulation.

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I figure since the ADDITION and SUBTRACTION of Scripture is going on for the PERSONAL RELIGIONs OF SOME IS in FULL EFFECT,


I would put forth  THE HARD CORE FACT that

not a single man, woman or child upon the planet earth CAN DISPUTE 

 THERE IS NO 'IN CHRIST' WRITTEN HERE.

Moot point...if it said 'In Christ' you would say people who die in Christ are wicked unbelievers...NOT that they are wicked unbelievers, to the absolute opposite, they are believers who died following God...

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Doesn't seem to matter OR even come into consideration that it ALSO falls right after  THE DECAY DOESNT INHERIT IMMORTALITY  (coincidence?)

Sorry, my mistake for saying these are unregenerate people..what this is saying is that mortal human bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God...in other words, they must be changed into immortal bodies....

In the first setting it says corruption does not inherit incorruption meaning these bodies must be changed, but then in the next part it says that this mortality must put on immortality, so he is not saying it is impossible for corruption to put on incorruption, for in fact, mortality MUST put on immortality, he is just saying these mortal bodies can not enter into the kingdom of heaven without being changed.

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

NOR THAT GOD USED A DIFFERENT WORD FOR THE BODY the dead receive 

FROM THE ONE them who are changed do

There is no different word used for the body the dead receive from the ones who are changed...all the believers, dead or alive at the time the last trumpet sounds receives an immortal body, and Paul uses a couple of different words to define the same body...immortal, incorruptible and spiritual body.

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

but HOW EXACTLY is my believing exactly what is written as exactly what is meant TWISTED INTO ME BEING THE ONE WHO IS FOLLOWING A DIFFERENT GOSPEL? 

Because you are not believing exactly what is written. Paul said we shall all be changed at the last trump...you say all are changed as each individual dies...hardly the same exact words...completely different words, which also means a different gospel.. ITS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND WHEN THE NARRATIVE IS CHANGED THERE IS A CHANGE IN MEANING...PAUL SAID THERE WOULD BE SOME THAT  PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL BUT THEN SAID IT WAS NOT ANOTHER, BUT RATHER THAT SOME WOULD PERVERT THE GOSPEL...

When Paul says All will be changed at the last trump and you say all will not be changed at the last trump and will be changed when each individual dies, that is PERVERTING THE GOSPEL...The MEANING  is changed into something different than what was stated...

When Paul says he will receive his crown of life at the same day all others who love his appearing will receive their crown of life, and you say, no, all believers receive their crown of life when they die...THAT IS PERVERTING THE GOSPEL.

When John says all the saints and them that fear his name will be rewarded at the seventh trumpet and you say, no, 'all believers receive their reward when they die,'...THAT IS PERVERTING THE GOSPEL.

When John says 'when he shall appear we shall be like him,' and you say, no, every person becomes like him when they die before the second coming,'... THAT IS PERVERTING THE GOSPEL.

When Jesus says, "all that believe on the Son of God will be raised on the Last Day,' and you say, 'no, all that believe are raised when they die before the last day,' THAT IS PERVERTING THE GOSPEL.

When Paul says 'THE LORD SHALL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN, and the dead in Christ shall rise first, ' and you say 'no, the Lord doesn't have to descend from heaven for the dead in Christ to rise, for they have already been resurrected when they died, or that the dead in Christ are wicked unbelievers...' THAT IS PERVERTING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

If I had a nickel for ALL THE TIMES I HEAR THOSE WORDS
 SO PEOPLE CAN KEEP THEIR PERSONAL RELIGION INTACT
while MAKING VOID THE WORDS OF GOD


I HAVE ALOT OF NICKELS

I am pointing you to scriptures, you are pitting Jesus against Paul when there is no contradiction between them...Jesus did not say every individual gets changed when they die, nor did Paul. THIS IS NOT MAKING THE VOID THE WORD OF GOD...NOR IS IT MY PERSONAL RELIGION...WE ARE BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, JESUS CHRIST BEING THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE...PAUL IS NOT AGAINST JESUS, JESUS IS NOT AGAINST THE PROPHETS, THE PROPHETS ARE NOT AGAINST THE APOSTLES...THE FOUNDATION CONSISTS OF 1) THE APOSTLES...2) THE PROPHETS...3) JESUS CHRIST BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE...they are not contradictory to one another...ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD...God is not telling the apostles something and the prophets something else..YOU ARE THE ONE ATTEMPTING TO FRAME EVERY SCRIPTURE AGAINST WHAT PAUL PLAINLY STATED IN ORDER TO UPHOLD YOUR OWN POSITION...IT IS NOT PAUL'S POSITION OR THE POSITION OF JESUS OR THE POSITION OF THE PROPHETS THAT EVERY PERSON IS GLORIFIED AT DEATH...THAT IS YOUR POSITION

 

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

Then again, DON'T ANSWER, I already know as the ONLY POSSIBILITY IS
it's just another CONCLUSION OF MAN based UPON THE ASSUMPTION of MAN passed down by the TRADITIONS OF MAN that makes void the words of God.  

QUOTING PAUL SAYING ALL WILL BE CHANGED AT THE LAST TRUMP IS NOT AN ASSUMPTION OF MAN...IT IS NOT A TRADITION OF MAN..IT IS NOT AN OPINION OF ME...IT IS FROM PAUL, WHO LAID THE FOUNDATION WHO SAID THERE IS NO OTHER FOUNDATION THAT ANY MAN CAN LAY...HE GOT IT BY REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST AND WAS NOT TAUGHT IT BY MAN NOR DID HE RECEIVE IT FROM MAN...

SO SAYING PEOPLE WHO QUOTE PAUL ARE GIVING THE TRADITIONS OF MEN IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

GET RID OF ALL BELIEFS and read it as written

ABSOLUTELY...Read 1 Cor. 15: 51 - 52 AS WRITTEN..READ-

'ALL SHALL BE CHANGED AT THE LAST TRUMP...' not...

'All SHALL NOT BE CHANGED AT THE LAST TRUMP...'

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

and you have Christ rising up,

Yes Christ ascended into the heavens...no one was with him....they beheld Jesus and a cloud received him, (not him and some other saints) out of their sight...

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

the graves of them who slept opening up and THEM BEING RESURRECTED

many of the saints which slept arose after his resurrection and went into Jerusalem...NOT INTO HEAVEN...and were known of many...accept what Paul said..Christ the firstfruits, AFTERWARD THOSE THAT ARE CHRISTS AT HIS COMING.. AFTER WHAT? AFTER his resurrection those are Christ's AT HIS COMING, NOT AT HIS ASCENSION

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

followed by everyother man

Nobody followed him...not anyone, much less 'every other man..' JESUS IS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS IMMORTALITY ...NO ONE ELSE HAS IT...WHY? BECAUSE ALL WILL RECEIVE IMMORTALITY AT THE LAST TRUMP, JUST LIKE PAUL SAID.

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

who NEVER DIES in their own order

O course no believer ever dies...even the unbelievers are sleeping in the dust of the earth...the death he is talking about is the second death...Jesus plainly told Mary 'Lazarus is dead...' but what did he say his state was during the period of death? He said 'he is not dead' but sleeps...' And what does it say at the resurrection? They will AWAKE... and what did David say would happen to him when he awoke? He said 'I will be satisfied WHEN I AWAKE IN YOUR LIKENESS.'

And what did Job say? 'All the days of my appointed time will I wait UNTIL MY CHANGE COMES...'

What Change? The very change Paul was talking about when all the dead in Christ will be changed, at the last trumpet, not when they each die individually....the bodies of the two prophets REMAINED in the street for 3. 5 days...they were not in heaven UNTIL they heard the voice saying come up hither...THEN, not when they died, they ascended up to heaven in a cloud...they weren't up in heaven before they ascended up into heaven...

They didn't receive glorified bodies when they were killed...NO NO NO...their dead, mortal bodies lay in the street and they were not resurrected until the spirit of life from God entered them 3.5 DAYS LATER...NOT WHEN THEY DIED...

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

up to the last day when 
FINALLY, THE DEAD WHO HAVE BEEN IN THE GRAVE WAITING HIS RETURN to be resurrected, come up out from the place of the dead and to go to work trying to get their names in the book of life...

Jesus said he would raise all believers on the last day...now you pose that the believers have ALREADY BEEN RESURRECTED AS EACH ONE HAS DIED, but that the wicked dead will then be resurrected on the last day and strive to get their names in the book of life.. NO ONE CAN GET THEIR NAME IN THE BOOK OF LIFE IF THEY WERE NOT IN THAT BOOK BEFORE THEY DIED...!!!

ITS THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT...THE GOATS ARE NOT GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME FORWARD AND ACCEPT JESUS...NO THEY ARE CAST INTO EVERLASTING FIRE...NOW IS THE DAY OF SALVATION...AFTER DEATH THE JUDGMENT...

Both the righteous and the wicked are resurrected at the same time, not the righteous as they die individually, and then the wicked on the last day..NO NO NO...

Daniel 12: 1 states AT THAT TIME MULTITUDES OF THOSE SLEEPING IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH SHALL AWAKE.....is this just the wicked dead that arise? No..of course not, for Jesus said the hour comes when ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth...who is in the graves? Just wicked people HARDLY AND NO OF COURSE NOT.

Both the wicked and the righteous come forth at the same time the man of sin comes to his end at the end of the tribulation...at the seventh trumpet.

You are posing a scenario that does not exist in scripture. The wheat and the tares BOTH grow together until the harvest...the wicked are judged and cast into the fire AT THE SAME TIME THE RIGHTEOUS ARE REWARDED. AND WHEN DOES THIS HAPPEN...AT THE HARVEST, AT THE SECOND COMING...

Does the tares get a chance to 'go about getting their names in the book of life? Of course not..Do the goats 'go about getting their names in the book of life? Of course not. Do the bad fish 'go about trying to get their names in the book of life? Of course not...the goats, the tares and the bad fish are all cast away into everlasting fire and the good fish, the wheat, and the sheep enter into life.

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

Then THEY along with them in the clouds

NO NO NO AND DOUBLE NO!!! The wicked dead do not go 'along with them in the clouds...' It is the believers who have died, also called those who sleep in Jesus who God brings with him down to the earth...there are NO WICKED DEAD GOING UP TO HEAVEN OR COMING DOWN WITH JESUS...JESUS IS COMING AND ALL THE SAINTS WILL BE COMING WITH HIM, NOT ALL THE UNBELIEVERS...!!!

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

SO FROM THE DAY THE GRAVES WERE OPENED...EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER 

FROM THE DAY THE GRAVES WERE OPENED, many of the saints which slept arose and went into Jerusalem, not into heaven, and they died again for no one has immortality until all the believers receive it at the last day at the last trump..

THESE ARE THE SCRIPTURES YOU OPPOSE!!! YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH PAUL...YOU SET YOUR SIGHTS AGAINST WHAT PAUL PREACHES...PAUL DID NOT TELL THE SAINTS THAT HE WAS GOING TO GET HIS CROWN OF LIFE WHEN HE DIED...HE TOLD THEM HE WOULD GET HIS CROWN OF LIFE ON THAT DAY THAT EVERYONE ELSE GETS THEIRS...

Everyone did not get their crown of life when Paul died...THIS IS FOOLISHNESS AND IS A PERVERSION OF THE GOSPEL!!!

BUT THESE ARE THE SCRIPTURES YOU DO NOT DEAL WITH...YOU PASS THEM OVER...Saying everyone gets their crown when they die IS ABSOLUTELY NOT THE SAME THING AS SAYING EVERYONE GETS THEIR CROWN ON ONE DAY.!!!

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

ALL OF THEM OF THE 1ST RESURRECTION WHICH IS OF 

RANK

NOT TIME

Except its not...The last trumpet only sounds after the first 6 sound. They have not sounded yet...so it pertains to TIME...it pertains to TIME...it pertains to TIME...the 7th trumpet is NOT SOUNDING NOW...SO NO ONE HAS BEEN CHANGED FROM THE TIME JESUS ASCENDED TO NOW...YOU ARE SAYING JUST THE OPPOSITE...YOU ARE SAYING IT DOESN'T PERTAIN TO TIME, WHEN IT ABSOLUTELY PERTAINS TO TIME...

THE LAST TRUMPET HAS NOT SOUNDED...NO ONE GETS CHANGED UNTIL IT SOUNDS..OF COURSE IT PERTAINS TO TIME!!!!!

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

no excuses, no twisting, no conflict.  

Many excuses, much twisting and conflicts all over the place...

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

YET I AM THE ONE HAVING ANOTHER GOSPEL?   

Yes, absolutely..!!!!!

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

No HEAVENLY ETERNAL BODY COMING FROM THE DECAY THE CORRUPTION THE PLACE OF THE DEAD

Yes, this mortality, this corruption, this natural body will put on immortality and it will come down from heaven in this glorious state with all the saints at the second coming..both the righteous dead and those who are alive and remain will receive this immortal body and will put off their mortal body and will descend down from heaven in this state and be as the angels who never die and will rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years.

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

JUST SAYING 

IF YOU READ IT AS WRITTEN...

Except you don't...you ignore scriptures given to you...Paul says just the opposite of what you say and you say you are believing it JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN...NO YOU ARE NOT!!!

On 9/25/2023 at 8:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

THAT IS THE STORY GOD TELLS.  

IF IT WAS, YOU WOULD BE AGREEING WITH WHAT PAUL SAID BUT YOU DON'T..GOD SENT PAUL ...PAUL SAYS SOMETHING DIFFERENT...IT IS NOT THE SAME AS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING...IT IS NOT GODS STORY