The Problem With Evolution Part 2- Animals

[The Barbarian]

1 minute ago, Sparks said:

Salvation hinges on accepting the Gift of Salvation, as stated in Romans. 

^{Matthew 7:21} “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ²² On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ ²³ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

James 2:17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.  18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.  19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.  20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

[Sparks]

18 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

^{Matthew 7:21} “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ²² On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ ²³ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

James 2:17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.  18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.  19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.  20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Jesus' death on the cross changed everything.  Salvation is a gift, now.  The instructions are in Romans on how to accept the gift and be saved (already posted), and you cannot earn salvation.  

(ESV) Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.  

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Diamond said:

  FreeGrace said:

How does this address my point?

I do one word at a time.

OK, then you don't need to capture an irrelevant point or comment.  Just make it clear what you are doing.  Thanks.

3 hours ago, Diamond said:

Right now we are talking about the meaning of the word "formed". If you would prefer, we could study this word one letter at a time.

I don't prefer snarkiness.

3 hours ago, Diamond said:

What good are words if you do not know what they mean.

Right.  They are no good at all.  So, let's get down to it.  Can you provide an example of any object that has NO form? Because that's one of the glaring issues in Gen 1:2.

3 hours ago, Diamond said:

Correct we are having a conversation about Genesis 1:2. Although NOTHING in the Bible makes any sense if you do not properly understand Genesis 1:1 or even the first word in the Bible: Beginning.

I have been told by a pastor who had 5 years of seminary Hebrew that the word meant "a beginning that is not THE beginning", or something like that.  And that makes sense because God has no beginning.  So 1:1 is about when God spoke the entire universe into existence, per Psa 33:6,9.

3 hours ago, Diamond said:

What language did He speak? Hebrew or King James English? Frances Collins believes the language of God is DNA. This is his version of Theistic Evolution. 

I don't care a bit about Frank Collins or what his opinion is.  I care very much for what the Bible actually says and means.  I reject "theistic evolution" as well.

The OT was written in Hebrew.  Just so you know.

[The Barbarian]

Salvation hinges on accepting the Gift of Salvation, as stated in Romans. 

(ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

James 2:24  Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

[The Barbarian]

^{Matthew 7:21} “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ²² On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ ²³ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

James 2:17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.  18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.  19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.  20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

2 hours ago, Sparks said:

Jesus' death on the cross changed everything. 

It didn't change the Gospels.   Sorry about that.   The Gospels are exactly what the crucifixion was about.

2 hours ago, Sparks said:

Salvation is a gift, now.  The instructions are in Romans on how to accept the gift and be saved (already posted), and you cannot earn salvation.  

You're confusing works with "earning salvation."    God is not wrong when He tells you that you will be judged by your works, and your works will determine if you spend eternity with the devil or with Him.

 

[Diamond]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

I don't prefer snarkiness.

Not at all. Perhaps you need to study a bit of Hebrew. 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

 Can you provide an example of any object that has NO form?

I was talking about science when the earth is forming it is a hot liquid and gas. So there is no form until the earth begins to cool and turn into solid rock. I have many rocks out in my yard where I can see when they were a liquid before they cooled and became a solid. We need to study the earth to see the story that is there. This is what Science does. We do not always know the cause but we can study the effect. 

I do a lot of rock art so I study the rocks that I work with. 

 

Edited September 28, 2024 by Diamond

[FreeGrace]

44 minutes ago, Diamond said:

  FreeGrace said:

I don't prefer snarkiness.

Perhaps you need to study a bit of Hebrew. 

How much study of Hebrew do you have?

44 minutes ago, Diamond said:

I was talking about science when the earth is forming it is a hot liquid and gas.

How do you know that?  The Bible says God created the heavens and earth (universe) in Gen 1:1 and Psa 33:6,9 tells us HOW He did:

6 - By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
9 - For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

44 minutes ago, Diamond said:

So there is no form until the earth begins to cool and turn into solid rock.

Even very hot molten lava has form.  And your opinion about how God created the universe/earth is just an opinion.  Unless you were there to record how God created everything.

44 minutes ago, Diamond said:

I have many rocks out in my yard where I can see when they were a liquid before they cooled and became a solid.

Wow.  So you can see that, huh?

44 minutes ago, Diamond said:

We need to study the earth to see the story that is there.

Be my guest.  I'll learn all about the earth from the Bible.

44 minutes ago, Diamond said:

This is what Science does. We do not always know the cause but we can study the effect.

Got news for you.  Science is the study of what God created.  Science didn't create one darn thing.  And wasn't around when God created.

44 minutes ago, Diamond said:

I do a lot of rock art so I study the rocks that I work with. 

 

Top rock reminds me of an Idaho potato.

[Sparks]

5 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Salvation hinges on accepting the Gift of Salvation, as stated in Romans. 

(ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

James 2:24  Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Yes, works is a good thing, but it won't save you.  Only accepting the gift will, by faith.  God's grace saves you, by faith.  It specifically tells you that works does not, and why:

(ESV) Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

One of these days you will figure out that the Bible does not contradict itself, and that salvation is a gift you may accept or decline.  Those are the only two options.  To ignore the gift is to decline it.  You have this lifetime to choose.

[Diamond]

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

How much study of Hebrew do you have?

I have a few books and listen to the teaching on YouTube. Mostly the Chabad Hasidic philosophy as far as I know. Rabbi Manis Friedman and Rabbi Avraham Arieh Trugman

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/wp-content/uploads/2003/08/shluchim-emissaries-outside-chabad-headquarters.jpg

[Diamond]

6 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

How do you know that?

We know that Earth was initially a hot liquid and gas because of evidence from seismic waves generated by earthquakes, which reveal distinct layers within the Earth with different densities, indicating a molten outer core, and by studying meteorites which provide insights into the composition of the early solar system and the materials that formed planets like Earth during its formation phase; this evidence suggests a very hot, molten state during early Earth's history.

 

6 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

And your opinion about how God created the universe/earth is just an opinion.

No it is an EXPERT opinion. My brother is an expert witness in court. He gets paid $500 and hour. Do you make $500 an hour?  I have two books next to my computer. Gerald Schroeder PhD and Neil Degrass Tyson. They are the experts, they are the teacher and I am the student.