A Concern for Applying the Bible to the Natural Sciences

[RV_Wizard]

9 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

The problem is, the modern day science is a lie, and when you attempt to change the Bible to make it fit, your adding a lie into the Bible. 

I wouldn't say that modern science is a lie.  Using observable science to explain an unobservable supernatural event and claiming that can disprove the Bible is a lie.  Using a theory of origins and passing it off as factual is a lie.  Changing the true meaning of the Bible to support false doctrine is heresy.

[The Barbarian]

9 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Indeed, but those modernist revisions arnt based upon the original Hebrew but instead are changed in an attempt to make modern day science work with the Bible.

Modern day science doesn't involve scripture.    Scripture may not mention white blood cells or evolution but they are observed facts.   It is a huge mistake to think scripture is about everything.   Those who try to make it so, miss God's message to us.

9 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

The problem is, the modern day science is a lie

Nothing else humans can do, works better for explaining the physical universe.   And it only conflict with modern man's attempt to revise the Bible to fit their desires.    The Bible is entirely consistent with science.

 

[RV_Wizard]

10 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

I'm just showing you that scripture says the sky has windows through which rain falls.

It seems that your problem is either you can't discern the difference between the literal and the metaphorical, or you troll the internet looking for verses to use to attack the Bible.  

1 Corinthians 2:10.  These things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

If you lack the Holy Spirit, the Bible will always be a mystery to you.  Maybe that's your problem.  You refuse to let go of the things men have told you and embrace the truth revealed by God.

10 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Actually, you didn't provide a definition for YE creationism.

Until scoffers and false teachers tried to normalize the claim of long ages, it was simply called faith or Christianity.  Early Christians were "People of the Way."  Before Christ, the Israelites looked to their high priests or the prophets; NONE of whom claimed that man evolved from a simpler life form.  When those who believed in false doctrine wanted to be considered Christians, they divided themselves into the young earth and old earth camps.  The young earth crowd believes in the Bible as written and sees the generations from Adam to Jesus as having value in establishing our timeline.  The old earth crowd either picks and chooses which portions of the Bible to believe, or they are deceived by false teachers.

It wasn’t until the nineteenth century that the church, faced with many attacks against the authority and truthfulness of Scripture, began to waver on its doctrine of creation. With the publication of Charles Darwin’s Origin of Species (1859), a new and all-encompassing worldview arose that denied creation ex nihilo, divine design and development of the many kinds of nonliving and living things, and the special creation of human beings in the divine image. This evolutionary worldview now dominates most sectors of our contemporary Western society. Tragically, it presents one of the fiercest challenges to biblical and historical Christianity today.

source

After 30 years of ministry on a secular campus I have concluded the number one reason Christians lose their faith is the teaching of evolution as an inarguable fact. The same professors invariably attack the reliability of the Bible.  - Ken Ham.

You may be a Christian who believes in Jesus Christ as the only path to heaven, but the things you teach are leading others to destruction.

 

[The Barbarian]

2 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

It seems that your problem is either you can't discern the difference between the literal and the metaphorical

That's your inability, not mine.    I'm just showing you that much of Genesis is figurative.    You've resisted up to now.   So this is a good sign.

3 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

or you troll the internet looking for verses to use to attack the Bible.  

Just read the Bible.   It's in there.   The internet is what deluded you into thinking all of it is literal.   Maybe that's your problem.  You refuse to let go of the things men have told you and embrace the truth revealed by God.

5 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Early Christians were "People of the Way."  Before Christ, the Israelites looked to their high priests or the prophets; NONE of whom claimed that man evolved from a simpler life form. 

None of them claimed that the body metabolized glucose to provide us energy, either.   Not everything that is true, is in the Bible.   The difference is, your new doctrines aren't opposed to glucose.

7 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

With the publication of Charles Darwin’s Origin of Species (1859), a new and all-encompassing worldview arose that denied creation ex nihilo, divine design and development of the many kinds of nonliving and living things, and the special creation of human beings in the divine image.

If you listen to the lies of men, you'll always be deceived.  

There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.

Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species

They are lying to you, and you're falling for it, because they tell you what you want to believe.   Come out of the darkness into the light and reconcile yourself to things God's way.

[Sparks]

11 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

I'm just showing you that scripture says the sky has windows through which rain falls.

No point in denial.

 

Actually, you didn't provide a definition for YE creationism.   The Adventist invention of YE creationism is far more than merely revising the Genesis creation story to be entirely literal.

That definition would fit the thinking of evolutionary creationists like Darwin.   Notice the definition mentions the confusion of creationism with YE creationism.

You are the one revising things. 

[The Barbarian]

21 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

You may be a Christian who believes in Jesus Christ as the only path to heaven, but the things you teach are leading others to destruction.

That's an issue that makes YE creationism an obstacle to salvation.   Former YE creationist and ICR staff member Glenn Morton explains:

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

“From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true?”

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said ‘No!’ A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, “Wait a minute. There has to be one!” But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now, but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.

https://peacefulscience.org/articles/glenn-morton/

Morton was one of the fortunate ones.   Many others, convinced that YE creationism was an essential doctrine of Christian belief, lost their faith.     This is the real damage that YE does to His people.

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Sparks said:

You are the one revising things. 

As you now see, Genesis is often figurative.   I didn't change the mention of windows in the sky into something figurative.  It was always figurative, and by Jesus' time, everyone knew that it was.

 

Edited February 5, 2024 by The Barbarian

[Sparks]

5 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species

Why don't you use the full title of his book? 

On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life

People decided to shorten the title, like you did.  Go ahead, and use the full title in the future. 

[Sparks]

19 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

As you now see, Genesis is often figurative.   I didn't change the mention of windows in the sky into something figurative.  It was always figurative, and by Jesus' time, everyone know that it was.

 

It's not.  When you make up things to make the literal look figurative, it is silly.

You have to realize Catholics like yourself, and Protestants like me don't agree on scripture because of silliness like this.

[The_Patriot21]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

Modern day science doesn't involve scripture.    Scripture may not mention white blood cells or evolution but they are observed facts.   It is a huge mistake to think scripture is about everything.   Those who try to make it so, miss God's message to us.

Nothing else humans can do, works better for explaining the physical universe.   And it only conflict with modern man's attempt to revise the Bible to fit their desires.    The Bible is entirely consistent with science.

 

Your right the Bible is consistent with science 100% now it doesn't talk about white blood cells but that's never the bone of content anyway no one argues that.

What is in contention is age of the earth. Bible says creation in 7 literal 24 hour days. Modern science says we evolved over millions of years. 

That's the controversial part. And modern science is a lie and trying to force it into the Bible is wrong. I'd say even sinful