A Concern for Applying the Bible to the Natural Sciences

[RV_Wizard]

1 hour ago, Tristen said:

To me, the natural implication of this example is that God's Word can be trusted, even in the supposedly "incidental details".

That's why in courtrooms we (used to) swear on the Bible to tell the truth.  Those who respect God's word accept all of it, including the parts that make them uncomfortable.  They weren't, after all, called the Ten Suggestions.

[The Barbarian]

3 hours ago, Tristen said:

To me, the natural implication of this example is that God's Word can be trusted, even in the supposedly "incidental details".

I don't think God meant for you to think the sky is a dome over the Earth with windows in it for rain to fall through.  

 

[Tristen]

9 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

12 hours ago, Tristen said:

To me, the natural implication of this example is that God's Word can be trusted, even in the supposedly "incidental details".

I don't think God meant for you to think the sky is a dome over the Earth with windows in it for rain to fall through. 

Which is why He doesn't say any such thing in His Word. I mean - unless you insist on the most ridiculously remote, narrowest and most presumptuous interpretations of certain words.

Fortunately, most translators avoided this trap of confirmation bias - which is why the concepts you describe do not appear in many (if any) translations of the Bible.

 

[The Barbarian]

46 minutes ago, Tristen said:

Which is why He doesn't say any such thing in His Word. I mean - unless you insist on the most ridiculously remote, narrowest and most presumptuous interpretations of certain words.

KJV...

Genesis 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

Genesis 7:11  In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

So it's "interpretation?"     Except when it isn't.   C'mon.

 

[The Barbarian]

57 minutes ago, Tristen said:

Fortunately, most translators avoided this trap of confirmation bias - which is why the concepts you describe do not appear in many (if any) translations of the Bible.

ASV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

AMP

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month, on that same day all the fountains of the great deep [subterranean waters] burst open, and the windows and floodgates of the heavens were opened.

AMPC

In the year 600 of Noah’s life, in the seventeenth day of the second month, that same day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up and burst forth, and the windows and floodgates of the heavens were opened.

BRG

¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

CSB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the sources of the vast watery depths burst open, the floodgates of the sky were opened,

CEB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day—on that day all the springs of the deep sea erupted, and the windows in the skies opened.

CJB

On the seventeenth day of the second month of the 600th year of Noach’s life all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of the sky were opened.

 

DARBY

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that same day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

DRA

In the six hundredth year of the life of Noe, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month, all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the flood gates of heaven were opened:

 

EHV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that very day, all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

ESV

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

 

GNV

¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, in the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened,

GNT

When Noah was six hundred years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month all the outlets of the vast body of water beneath the earth burst open, all the floodgates of the sky were opened,

HCSB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the sources of the watery depths burst open, the floodgates of the sky were opened,

ISV

On the seventeenth day of the second month, when Noah was 600 years old, all the springs of the great deep burst open, the floodgates of the heavens were opened,

JUB

¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

KJV

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

AKJV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

LSB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the fountains of the great deep split open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

LEB

In the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month—on that day all the springs of the great deep were split open, and the windows of heaven were opened.

 

MSG

It was the six-hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month that it happened: all the underground springs erupted and all the windows of Heaven were thrown open. Rain poured for forty days and forty nights.

MEV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the same day, all the fountains of the great deep burst open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

NOG

On the seventeenth day of the second month of the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, all the deep springs burst open. The sky opened,

NABRE

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month: on that day All the fountains of the great abyss burst forth, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

NASB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

NASB1995

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

NCB

this happened in the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month. On that very day the springs of the great abyss and the floodgates of the heavens opened.

 

NET

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month—on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

NIRV

Noah was 600 years old. It was the 17th day of the second month of the year. On that day all of the springs at the bottom of the oceans burst open. God opened the windows of the sky.

NIV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

NIVUK

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month – on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

NKJV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

NLV

In the year 600 of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, all the wells of water under the earth broke open. The windows of the heavens were opened.

NRSVA

In the six-hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

NRSVACE

In the six-hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

NRSVCE

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

NRSVUE

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

OJB

In the six hundredth year of Noach’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of Shomayim were opened.

RSV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

RSVCE

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

TLV

In the six-hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day, all the water sources of the great deep burst open, and the windows of the sky were opened.

VOICE

On the 17th day of the 2nd month in Noah’s 600th year, all of the subterranean waters erupted from the depths of the earth and burst skyward, covering the land. The casements of the heavens cracked open,

WEB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the sky’s windows opened.

WYC

In the six hundred(th) year of the life of Noe, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month (on the seventeenth day of the month), all the wells of the great sea were broken, and the windows of (the) heaven(s) were opened,

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genesis 7:11

 

[RV_Wizard]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

KJV...

Genesis 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

Genesis 7:11  In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

So it's "interpretation?"     Except when it isn't.   C'mon.

Oh, the Barbarian has found more criticisms from the atheist websites to use against the Scriptures.  How quaint.  

Have you ever actually seen a spring and watched the water bubble up from the earth, as it were a fountain?  I have.  Would you like to see how it works?

[Misplaced Video Removed]

There you have the fountains of the deep.

In Noah’s day, when God brought the promised destruction of the earth by water, the floodwaters came from two sources: “All the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened” (Genesis 7:11, NKJV). When the rain stopped 40 days later, “The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed,” and “the rain from the heavens was restrained” (Genesis 8:2, ESV). After that, the floodwaters prevailed over the earth for another 110 days (Genesis 7:24).

The “fountains of the great deep” and “windows of heaven” are metaphors for underground springs gushing up with water and sudden torrential rains falling from above as if floodgates in the sky had opened. The phrase windows of heaven depicts the earth as surrounded and enclosed by a solid vaulted, dome or tent-like structure with openings in it. If the modern-day canopy theory is correct, the floodgates in the sky were more literal than figurative.

Elsewhere in the Bible, “windows of heaven” symbolize God’s way of communicating from heaven and interacting with people on earth. God’s avenue of deliverance for the people of Samaria is pictured as the Lord making windows in heaven (see 2 Kings 7:2, 19). In Psalm 78:23 God references opening “the doors of heaven” to rain down manna in the desert to provide food for the people of Israel (cf. Exodus 16:4).

In Malachi 3:10, God promises to open the windows of heaven and pour out abundant blessings on those who honor and obey Him: “‘Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,’ says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies, ‘I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test!’” (NLT). By contrast, the prophet Isaiah speaks of God’s judgment coming down through the opened windows of heaven (Isaiah 24:18).

At times, the heavens opened, and people saw or heard visions from God (Ezekiel 1:1; Revelation 4:1; 19:11). “After his baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him. And a voice from heaven said, ‘This is my dearly loved Son, who brings me great joy’” (Matthew 3:16–17, NLT; cp. Mark 1:10; Luke 3:21; John 1:51). Just before Stephen was stoned to death, “the heavens opened,” and he saw Jesus standing at the right of God (Acts 7:56). The heavens also opened to reveal a vision to Peter (Acts 10:9–16).

The Hebrew imagery of the “windows of heaven” opening always seems to convey a sense of abundant outpouring, whether in torrents of rain, extreme judgment, plenty of food, or a profusion of blessings. In every instance, God is the One responsible for opening and closing the windows of heaven.  source

Perhaps you should spend more time reading the Bible and less time attacking it with every post you make.

Edited February 18, 2024 by Michael37
Videos not allowed in this section

[Tristen]

47 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

KJV...

Genesis 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

Genesis 7:11  In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

So it's "interpretation?"     Except when it isn't.   C'mon.

 

 

40 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

ASV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

AMP

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month, on that same day all the fountains of the great deep [subterranean waters] burst open, and the windows and floodgates of the heavens were opened.

AMPC

In the year 600 of Noah’s life, in the seventeenth day of the second month, that same day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up and burst forth, and the windows and floodgates of the heavens were opened.

BRG

¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

CSB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the sources of the vast watery depths burst open, the floodgates of the sky were opened,

CEB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day—on that day all the springs of the deep sea erupted, and the windows in the skies opened.

CJB

On the seventeenth day of the second month of the 600th year of Noach’s life all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of the sky were opened.

 

DARBY

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that same day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

DRA

In the six hundredth year of the life of Noe, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month, all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the flood gates of heaven were opened:

 

EHV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that very day, all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

ESV

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

 

GNV

¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, in the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened,

GNT

When Noah was six hundred years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month all the outlets of the vast body of water beneath the earth burst open, all the floodgates of the sky were opened,

HCSB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the sources of the watery depths burst open, the floodgates of the sky were opened,

ISV

On the seventeenth day of the second month, when Noah was 600 years old, all the springs of the great deep burst open, the floodgates of the heavens were opened,

JUB

¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

KJV

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

AKJV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

LSB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the fountains of the great deep split open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

LEB

In the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month—on that day all the springs of the great deep were split open, and the windows of heaven were opened.

 

MSG

It was the six-hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month that it happened: all the underground springs erupted and all the windows of Heaven were thrown open. Rain poured for forty days and forty nights.

MEV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the same day, all the fountains of the great deep burst open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

NOG

On the seventeenth day of the second month of the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, all the deep springs burst open. The sky opened,

NABRE

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month: on that day All the fountains of the great abyss burst forth, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

NASB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

NASB1995

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

NCB

this happened in the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month. On that very day the springs of the great abyss and the floodgates of the heavens opened.

 

NET

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month—on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

NIRV

Noah was 600 years old. It was the 17th day of the second month of the year. On that day all of the springs at the bottom of the oceans burst open. God opened the windows of the sky.

NIV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

NIVUK

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month – on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

NKJV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

NLV

In the year 600 of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, all the wells of water under the earth broke open. The windows of the heavens were opened.

NRSVA

In the six-hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

NRSVACE

In the six-hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

NRSVCE

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

NRSVUE

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

OJB

In the six hundredth year of Noach’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of Shomayim were opened.

RSV

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

RSVCE

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

TLV

In the six-hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day, all the water sources of the great deep burst open, and the windows of the sky were opened.

VOICE

On the 17th day of the 2nd month in Noah’s 600th year, all of the subterranean waters erupted from the depths of the earth and burst skyward, covering the land. The casements of the heavens cracked open,

WEB

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the sky’s windows opened.

WYC

In the six hundred(th) year of the life of Noe, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month (on the seventeenth day of the month), all the wells of the great sea were broken, and the windows of (the) heaven(s) were opened,

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genesis 7:11

 

Yes, Lol. For some reason, obvious (self-evident) architectural metaphors must be taken hyper-literally when it suits your position (pillars, foundations, cornerstones, windows, floodgates etc.).

So yes, one might metaphorically describe rain as heaven releasing water - i.e. heaven opening up to release water to fall to Earth; as one might open, say, a "window" or "gate".

Are you really going to dishonestly resort to pretending you don't understand an obvious metaphor? Do you think the Bible describes Jesus as a literal lamb, or a literal gate/door. or a literal light etc.? Do we always need to play disingenuous games? Do you think you win a prize?

Was there any mention in your list of verses of a windowed "dome"?

 

[The Barbarian]

1 minute ago, Tristen said:

Yes, Lol. For some reason, obvious (self-evident) architectural metaphors must be taken hyper-literally when it suits your position (pillars, foundations, cornerstones, windows, floodgates etc.).

I just note that there's a curious flexibility in YE interpretations, depending on whether or not they want it to be literal or not.    As you see, your claim that only a few Bible translations translate it as windows or flood gates, is false; most of them do.

3 minutes ago, Tristen said:

Are you really going to dishonestly resort to pretending you don't understand an obvious metaphor?

I'm just noting the inconsistency in YE claims about what is to be taken literally and what is not.

4 minutes ago, Tristen said:

Was there any mention in your list of verses of a windowed "dome"?

Genesis 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.  7 And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.  8 And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.

Seems pretty clear, much more explicit than "mornings" and "evenings" without a sun to have them."

While it may come as a surprise to many, modern scholarship has long argued that the Hebrews, along with most other ancient peoples, believed that the heavens (as in ‘the sky’)²  were made of some kind of solid substance, whether it be of bronze, iron, or precious stone. This heavenly vault or dome had hatches in it, so it is argued, that released the waters that were contained above it. According to this view, this was the ancient explanation for where rain comes from. While this modern scholastic view goes well beyond what pious ancient interpreters thought, we can conveniently group together all views that thought of the rāqîaʿ as a solid object the firmament concept. ‘Firmament’ being the well-known King James Version translation of the Hebrew word rāqîaʿ.

One may question if such a view is nothing more than a modern scholarly invention. As understandable as that would be, the very etymology and long-term usage of the (English) word firmament testifies that the notion of a cosmic ‘vault,’ or conversely of some kind of crystalline celestial sphere (which concepts, however, are far from identical),³ has long been believed in. Firmament is a transliteration of the Latin Vulgate’s firmamentum, the Vulgate being a 1,600 year old translation. The Vulgate itself was influenced by the Septuagint’s στερέωμα (stereōma), the Septuagint itself being a 2,300 year old translation. Stereōma comes from the word στερεόω (stereoō) – ‘to make or be firm or solid.’ While secular scholarship and conservative belief alike distinguish between the original intent of the Bible and later interpretations of it (no matter how old those interpretations may be), it is nonetheless a remarkable fact that the earliest ever translation of the Hebrew Bible, from circa 250 B.C., interpreted the rāqîaʿ as referring to some kind of hard heavenly object.

...

In summary, this ‘dome theory’ or ‘firmament notion’ represents the almost unquestioned consensus view of modern scholarship, while ancient Jewish and Christian interpretation has itself long supported important aspects of this model. Furthermore, while a segment of scholars, almost entirely from the evangelical community, previously opposed this view, particularly in light of the scientific problems it introduces, an increasing number of professing evangelical scholars have now openly embraced the firmament interpretation. The earlier evangelical view is represented by the translation of rāqîaʿ as an expanse, rather than as a firmament or dome:

https://hebrewcosmology.com/expanse-firmament-raqia/introduction-to-the-raqia-problem/

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

Oh, the Barbarian has found more criticisms from the atheist websites to use against the Scriptures.  How quaint.  

It's only a criticism of the modern revisions of YE creationism, not of scripture.    Remember the difference.

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

Have you ever actually seen a spring and watched the water bubble up from the earth, as it were a fountain?  I have.  Would you like to see how it works?

You seem to be somewhat confused here.  Scripture doesn't literally say there are springs in the sky.   It doesn't say springs in the sky at all.  Go back and read it again.   Springs work whenever the ground is below the water table.     It's not magic or miraculous.   And of course, it's not what scripture says about the dome of the sky or windows in it.

Perhaps you should spend more time reading the Bible and less time adding your own desires to it with every post you make.

Edited February 18, 2024 by The Barbarian

[Tristen]

13 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

I just note that there's a curious flexibility in YE interpretations, depending on whether or not they want it to be literal or not.

Well allow me to demystify my position for you.

If something natural, or something conceptual, is described in architectural terms - this can reasonably be assumed to be a metaphorical description. That is, some literal detail of reality is being described in a symbolic way. This is commonly understood across cultures and languages.

However, if something is stated in such a way as to be plainly understood as historical narrative, then we do not permit ourselves the right to dismiss the stated details as though the details have no relation to reality.

 

23 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

As you see, your claim that only a few Bible translations translate it as windows or flood gates, is false; most of them do.

This is dishonest Equivocation (logic fallacy). 

Your original claim suggested the Bible says, "the sky is a dome over the Earth with windows in it for rain to fall through". As far as I could tell, none of your provided verses said, "the sky is a dome over the Earth". It is true that many of the provided verses used "windows or flood gates", but that was not the full nature of the claim being addressed.

 

34 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

49 minutes ago, Tristen said:

Was there any mention in your list of verses of a windowed "dome"?

Genesis 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.  7 And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.  8 And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.

Seems pretty clear, much more explicit than "mornings" and "evenings" without a sun to have them."

While it may come as a surprise to many, modern scholarship has long argued that the Hebrews, along with most other ancient peoples, believed that the heavens (as in ‘the sky’)²  were made of some kind of solid substance, whether it be of bronze, iron, or precious stone. This heavenly vault or dome had hatches in it, so it is argued, that released the waters that were contained above it. According to this view, this was the ancient explanation for where rain comes from. While this modern scholastic view goes well beyond what pious ancient interpreters thought, we can conveniently group together all views that thought of the rāqîaʿ as a solid object the firmament concept. ‘Firmament’ being the well-known King James Version translation of the Hebrew word rāqîaʿ.

One may question if such a view is nothing more than a modern scholarly invention. As understandable as that would be, the very etymology and long-term usage of the (English) word firmament testifies that the notion of a cosmic ‘vault,’ or conversely of some kind of crystalline celestial sphere (which concepts, however, are far from identical),³ has long been believed in. Firmament is a transliteration of the Latin Vulgate’s firmamentum, the Vulgate being a 1,600 year old translation. The Vulgate itself was influenced by the Septuagint’s στερέωμα (stereōma), the Septuagint itself being a 2,300 year old translation. Stereōma comes from the word στερεόω (stereoō) – ‘to make or be firm or solid.’ While secular scholarship and conservative belief alike distinguish between the original intent of the Bible and later interpretations of it (no matter how old those interpretations may be), it is nonetheless a remarkable fact that the earliest ever translation of the Hebrew Bible, from circa 250 B.C., interpreted the rāqîaʿ as referring to some kind of hard heavenly object.

...

In summary, this ‘dome theory’ or ‘firmament notion’ represents the almost unquestioned consensus view of modern scholarship, while ancient Jewish and Christian interpretation has itself long supported important aspects of this model. Furthermore, while a segment of scholars, almost entirely from the evangelical community, previously opposed this view, particularly in light of the scientific problems it introduces, an increasing number of professing evangelical scholars have now openly embraced the firmament interpretation. The earlier evangelical view is represented by the translation of rāqîaʿ as an expanse, rather than as a firmament or dome:

https://hebrewcosmology.com/expanse-firmament-raqia/introduction-to-the-raqia-problem/

So then, the answer to my question ('Was there any mention in your list of verses, of a windowed "dome"?') is an unequivocal 'No'.

The exact meaning of 'raqia' (Hb) has been debated by Hebrew scholars throughout Christian history. You found a source that claimed it probably means one thing, but which also showed it has to be dragged via other languages to support that meaning.

In every other sense of the use of 'raqia', it refers to something being expanded, or spread out. Many translators therefore translate 'raqia' as an "expanse". By strange coincidence, the word "expanse" is a perfectly apt description of the sky and space.

I am therefore well within reason to reject any insistence that 'raqia' necessarily refers to a "dome".