Seventieth Week?Seven Year Tribulation

[abbershay]

Thats what it says..... it really is pretty clear... The man of sin is going to come and he is going to enforce a seven year treaty that he breaks .... Jesus never made a seven year treaty..... Also Jesus doesnt go against his word.......

[BlindSeeker]

Thats what it says..... it really is pretty clear... The man of sin is going to come and he is going to enforce a seven year treaty that he breaks .... Jesus never made a seven year treaty..... Also Jesus doesnt go against his word.......

where is this seven year treaty?

[abbershay]

verse 27

[Willow]

I am soooooo glad you started this thread OneAccord!! Finally I can read and 'talk' about this with someone. I have always grown up with the tribulation and rapture viewpoints, and it wasn't until one night at the dinner table - Mom and Dad dropped the bomb shell on me that they didn't believe it! Not that I ever really understood it, but then there was another interpretation.

Small interjection here - as much as we need accurate interpretation of scripture to guide us so we don't lead oursleves and those we teach astray, I think this is why the bible is so popular: mysterious to some and scary to others. There is so much info in this book(s), that I think it is more complicated than making scientific discoveries. No wonder the more you learn, the more you realize there is so much more.

Now here is a completely different angle. What if the AC was already here - among us, and has been for centuries. It's not a person, but a position. Can you guess who people theorized this to be?

I am still learning about all this, there is sooooo much to take in! I wish my dad was sitting here at my computer right now. There wouldn't be enough cyber room on the reply he would post. Maybe I will ask him when I go home tonight.

Until later!!!

[BlindSeeker]

. . . Now here is a completely different angle. What if the AC was already here - among us, and has been for centuries. It's not a person, but a position. Can you guess who people theorized this to be?

I concure with those who were being persecuted before the time of the reformists, that the position of the papacy (pope) is the position of the "son of perdition" and the institute steeped in paganism and apostasy is the "mother of harlots" which gave birth to many similar "harlots" via the reformation.

Prior to the reformation era you had the true believers being persecuted by catholicism. Those amongst the true believers were being subjected to severe persecution and many weak believers amongst them would have been wrestling with seeking a means to save their own lives.

On the other side, many of the those who were part of the pursuing beast would have fallen under the conviction of the Holy Spirit that they were guilty of murder if they remained affiliated with the present apostate institution. However, to come out of it would mean they too would be killed for their stand. As the persecution grew more severe, more people on both sides would begin to waver.

To me, the broken off fragments of the

[OneAccord]

Blindseeker, your post is very interesting, and I think I am following what you are saying pretty much. Let me try to translate into easier language for HIS girl's sake, and also to be sure I am following you clearly:

"I concure with those who were being persecuted before the time of the reformists, that the position of the papacy (pope) is the position of the "son of perdition" and the institute steeped in paganism and apostasy is the "mother of harlots" which gave birth to many similar "harlots" via the reformation."

OA:

AntiChrist rose up through the Catholic Church and has been present with us ever since in the line of popes. The Catholic Chruch is the mother of harlots, and the protestant church (Luther's reformation) and all her denominations are offspring of the mother. Same antichrist spirit, new package.

""Prior to the reformation era you had the true believers being persecuted by catholicism. Those amongst the true believers were being subjected to severe persecution and many weak believers amongst them would have been wrestling with seeking a means to save their own lives."

OA:

Before Martin Luther's time and the birth of the Protestant church, any believer who opposed the Catholic Church was persecuted severely by the Catholic Church. Standing for Christ and opposing the Catholic Church was essentially a death sentance.

Christians who feared torture and death sentance (as you say, weaker Christians who hesitated to lay down their lives for the Lord) were looking for a way out from this death sentance, an easier path to take as a Christian.

"On the other side, many of the those who were part of the pursuing beast would have fallen under the conviction of the Holy Spirit that they were guilty of murder if they remained affiliated with the present apostate institution. However, to come out of it would mean they too would be killed for their stand. As the persecution grew more severe, more people on both sides would begin to waver."

OA:

So we have Christians standing against the Catholic Church, recognizing the antichrist spirit in it. But we also Christians (true believers)within the Catholic Church, who being filled with the Holy Spirit knew that persecuting fellow Christians was murder, and that being part of the Catholic Church made them guilty of murder by association. BUT if they raised their voice and protested, then they would have to die. A strong in faith believer would die for the truth, but a weaker believer would be looking for a way out from this death sentance.

So here we have the people on both sides wavering, those inside the church,a nd those being persecuted by the church.

"To me, the broken off fragments of the

[BlindSeeker]

Very good One Accord

Now here, Blindseeker, you mention the Anabaptists, who I am very interested in. I understand these to be the early believers who were originally opposed to the Catholic Church, and later were also opposed to Luther's reformation. The Amish, Mennonites, Quakers are descended from these. They were severely persecuted by the Reformists and the Catholics during this time . . . I'm not sure where you see them in this?

Concerning the "Anabaptists," it was actually a slur name given to those who rejected the infant baptism of catholicism and were being re-baptized . . . which is what the name "anabaptist" signified.

. . .  Are you calling the Anabaptists all the true believers who opposed the Catholic church before the reformation?  Please clarify this for me.  I'd also love to converse more about the Anabaptists, who they are today, etc.  Perhaps we could have a separate thread about this??

It was the catholic Church who was calling the true believers "anabaptists, " as a slur (as I stated).

Unfortunately there are many today who wish to claim identity with the Anabaptists as some sort of credibility, but I give it little mind as our identity need to be with Jesus Christ.

In summary, you are saying that yes, indeed, the antichrist has been with us the whole time, disguised cleverly in the apostate church, which lives on today in both the Protestant and Catholic denominations.

I am saying that the many of the verses that are attributed to some future antichrist fiqure do actually find very reasonable application to the position of the Papacy and the Catholic Church. The same psuedo-christianity spirit which perdominately pervails in its institutionalized religion is widely practiced (at least in some unacceptable degree) in many of the different protestant churches which began as a result of the reformation movements.

Even today we now have the new protestants with their own brand of denomination call "Non-denominational." But they many of them are only a new liberal batch of harlots for hire creating their own brand of psuedo-christianity.

I fear it is as Jesus said, " . . . as in the days of Noah . . . "

[OneAccord]

Blindseeker,

Again I am extremely interested in your views on this.

If most of what we are seeing today in the churches is complicit with the apostate church, there must also be some remnant of authentic Christianity that has survived to this day.

What do you think a true church should look like? Are there any in exisitence that you know of?

I know there have been many attempts by groups of people to break away from institutionalized Christianity. Some just drop out altogether and forsake the assembling. Some become cultish, etc. Have you seen any successful breaks?

Also there are many sincere believers within the apostate institution. What of them?

[Willow]

Hey, I love to have dad jump in on this, but the only computer I have access to is at work (and also, dad CANNOT type!). So this afternoon, I will have a chat. Write down some of his thoughts and print off this whole looooong conversation and see if I can capture his thoughts.

It sounds as if your father would be a very interesting man to speak with . . . no wonder his daughter is as well . . . welcome aboard

Thanks My dad is a undiscovered scholar in my opinion.

I would also like to clarify for any reading who are Catholic, that this is not a Catholic bashing session. I (and I believe 'WE' on this board) have a love for Catholic people. And as we all endeavour to learn the hidden truths of scripture, we are finding things in the Catholic church which may be the fulfillment of scripture in terms of agenda's which are to be filled in the last days. If the fulfillment of the 70 weeks happened years ago, we've been living in the 'last days' for quite sometime.

Kind of makes the urgency to spread the gospel intense then doesn't it?

[Brad]

Blindseeker,

Again I am extremely interested in your views on this.

If most of what we are seeing today in the churches is complicit with the apostate church, there must also be some remnant of authentic Christianity that has survived to this day.

What do you think a true church should look like? Are there any in exisitence that you know of?

I know there have been many attempts by groups of people to break away from institutionalized Christianity. Some just drop out altogether and forsake the assembling. Some become cultish, etc. Have you seen any successful breaks?

Also there are many sincere believers within the apostate institution. What of them?

The true church looks like Jesus Christ in His ministry as when He returns making war with the nations, ruling with a rod of iron and treading down those who have rejected Him in the winepress.

But also enjoying the fellowship with true believers in the third heaven as we live on earth in these bodies that belong to the Holy Spirit until we pass on into a new heaven and earth :dove