Did the 'dead' rise before Christ did?

[Shilohsfoal]

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

If someone has NOT YET GONE TO SLEEP

what are they?  

 

Alive

Yet ,these who sleep in the dust continue in the dust till they awaken.And according to this verse,all of Daniels people ,who's names are written are delivered at the same time.

Daniel 12:1-2

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

 

 

Apparently,none of these people flew away before this time.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

what verse #  do you see 'of those who sleep in the dust of the earth' here?  

Verse ,51 is speaking of those who sleep in the dust of the earth.,Same as Daniel 12:1-2.They are all delivered at that time.

 

⁵¹ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

⁵² In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

⁵³ For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

⁵⁴ So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

[DeighAnn]

4 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Apparently,none of these people flew away before this time.

i HAVE TO go pick up my grocery order.  I'll be back in a while and answer your questions.  

[Shilohsfoal]

16 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Because that is what is written.  If you have received the gift of Salvation and you are in heaven, how could you not be immortal?  You are like the angels in heaven.  

How are the dead raised up and with what body?  

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Not your AIR, or MY BREATH, OR PART OF YOU BUT NOT ALL OF YOU...

BUT YOU.  We are created in our own image and we never cease to be a being and a being is body and soul and spirit.  

we have two bodies one for here and one for there.  WHY would we go there without one?


"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." 2 Corinthians 5:1 KJV
 

I can't travel to heaven till it comes.My shortest trip would be east.When Abraham,Isaac and Jacob are resurected, then they will be in the kingdom.of heaven.I would have to travel east.

 

Mathew 8

¹¹ And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

¹² But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

3 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

i HAVE TO go pick up my grocery order.  I'll be back in a while and answer your questions.  

It's past bedtime.Goodnight.

[DeighAnn]

57 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Alive

Yet ,these who sleep in the dust continue in the dust till they awaken.And according to this verse,all of Daniels people ,who's names are written are delivered at the same time.

Daniel 12:1-2

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

 

 

Apparently,none of these people flew away before this time.

How do you prove THIS IS ABOUT the 2ND ADVENT and not as it was written as of the 1st? 

It DOESN'T FIT with the 2nd ADVENT even though you say it does.  

What does it really SAY?  

Daniel 12:1
And at time that shall stand up Michael the prince great who stands over the sons of your people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation to time that

and at time that shall be delivered your people everyone who is found written in the book

And many of those who sleep of the earth in the dust shall awake these to life everlasting and these to shame contempt everlasting


And the DEAD DID RISE, the people under the OLD COVENANT when the graves were opened.  The saints were seen.  A time of trouble like never before, the KING CRUCIFIED and 40 years later the temple destroyed and them scattered.  


Isaiah 26
10Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.

11LORD, when thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see, and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them.

12LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.

13O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name.

14They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.

15Thou hast increased the nation, O LORD, thou hast increased the nation: thou art glorified: thou hadst removed it far unto all the ends of the earth.

16LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them.

17Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.

18We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.

19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

20Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

If you have been reading the thread, you have seen where the old covenant came to an end and the 'graves opened' and the captivity was led when He ascended


So until you can show this belongs to the 2nd Advent by a preponderance of evidence, we will continue to disagree. 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I can't travel to heaven till it comes

Unless you die, then you can follow Him, right?  You do know the way...

 

11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

From my understanding ,no one rises from their graves till the seventh Trump.Im not sure why you believe anyone of us becomes immortal before that Trump.

 

 

⁵¹ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

⁵² In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

⁵³ For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

⁵⁴ So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

When Jesus died on the Cross from lost of blood his real being his spiritual self or his soul or his Spirit Man can't remain in the dead body...it can never remain in the body. That has never happened for anyone and it will never happen to anyone. 

The Spirit person or the Spirit Man goes their way and the body will decay and the people do one of the following they either creamate the dead body of the deceased or the bury it 10" feet under the ground so the do not have to watch the decay of the "corpse".

If someone does something as decapitate the dead body for some reason he will not be charged for murder or killing the person because no one is there, he will be charge for doing an indignity to a "corpse". Often people have donated their organs to save someone else's life...or the donate them to science for research.  

After Jesus death his lifeless body was hanging on the Cross but Jesus was not there and by that time he had descended to the underworld, to where he was raised from, from the place of the dead. 

Jesus had a lot of things in his mind, he knew what he had to do down there because the mission God had given him did not finish with his death on the Cross.  

One of the first place he had to go was to make the promise God had given to Abraham and to Issac and to Jacob and to all the descendants of Jacob who were included in the promise and to David and to John the Baptist who were expecting him to come to them and bless them with the Eternal Life which comes together with the Heavenly Inheritance...this is it their Inheritance or their tenancy ended with Jesus Christ. Now as they were in Jesus Christ Eternal Life and his Heavenly Inheritance the only place for them to go was to their Heavenly Inheritance...their lease to be with Abraham's Inheritance expired when they inherit a new abode with Jesus Christ the Heavenly abode. 

This is the Inheritance of the believers in Jesus Christ they are the Inheritance of Jesus Christ and where he is we are together with Jesus Christ in his Heavenly Inheritance and we are co-heirs of Jesus Christ of the Heavenly Inheritance.  When God gave Heaven as the Inheritance to Jesus Christ at the same time he included every one who believes in him, everyone who believes in him he has forgiveness of sins in his name he is under the blood of the Slain Lamb of Jesus Christ..the Lord of Lords and the Judge of all. 

We are in Jesus Christ as he is we are all the time ...because he is our peace with the Heavenly Father.  He is the Eternal Life and we are in his Eternal Life. As he is so we are. We are his children. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[George]

@DeighAnn  The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus indicates that there was a place called Abraham's Bosom.  However, after the resurrection of Jesus ... remember there was a Resurrection of Saints in Jerusalem.  I believe the concept of leading Captivity Captive is something that you should research in answering your question.

Mat 27:51  And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. 

Mat 27:52  The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 

Mat 27:53  and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

 

Eph 4:8  Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” 

Eph 4:9  (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 

Eph 4:10  He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 

 

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

So easy for us to say how the LAW should have brought them to faith/belief and thereby Grace


NOW that we have the HOLY SPIRIT

 

Scripture is clear what the law was for. The law was never for salvation, in fact the law could not lead to salvation. 

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What this has to do with pre trib I have no idea.   

 

Dispensation is a pretrib artifact. I know of no teaching on such an idea apart from the pretrib doctrine. And it's wrong, it's always been faith through grace leading to salvation. 

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

Weird way to put it, but I still agree.  He raised up Abraham Isaac and Jacob for sure.  And the captivity too.  And every man in his own order.  And soon the alive and remaining.