The Holy Spirit

[Giaour]

Not quite sure I understand.

[Scarletprayers]

Not quite sure I understand.

I'm alittle slow ...........Giaour..........what are you not understanding? The post before this one, or what you asked about the different baptisms?

[Giaour]

Believers don't get the Holy Spirit until they are baptised?

[Giaour]

Once you get it, you can lose it?

[EricH]

Believers don't get the Holy Spirit until they are baptised?

You need to be careful viewing what happened in the Acts passage as 'normative". Many of the things that happened in Acts may have been unique to that time. That is because you had the odd situation of people who had believed in Jesus while he was on the earth, yet had not received the Holy Spirit because He had not yet been sent by Jesus into the world. That happened after Jesus' death and resurrection. That issue no longer exists.

[Pilgrim7]

Giaour,

There is a difference between baptism of the Spirit and the work of the Spirit. Nothing Spiritual happens on this earth with out the work of the Holy Spirit. He has two ways he works on people. To the lost soul He works from without in convicting him of his sinful condition and the resulting condemnation of death and calling him to repentance. Without this work of the Spirit, no one could repent and be saved. He does this by working on the conscience of the sinner.

The sinner has two problems. The first is past sin, and the second is that he has a carnal nature not subject to the law and will of God. Both need to be fixed. When the sinner repents, He is forgiven, or Justified. Yet he still has the carnal nature which is not subject to the law of God. This is where the indwelling of the Spirit comes in. For those who ask and believe Jesus comes to dwell in the heart as Lord and Master. Now the believer has a 'New Heart', a 'new nature' which is stronger that his 'carnal nature'. This 'new nature' enables the believer to overcome his 'carnal nature'. This 'new nature' is subject to the law of God. The 'new man' loves God and His laws with all his heart, mind, soul and strength' and His neighbor as he used to love himself. The 'new man' hates sin, but loves sinners. He has the mind of Christ. The 'new nature' is stronger than the 'carnal nature' as long as one abides with Christ. As the Scripture says in John 15, If one does not abide in Christ, he is broken off as a withered branch and cast into the fire.

So the outer working of the Spirit is to convince man of his need for the indwelling Spirit of God if he wants to 'escape the wrath to come' and lead him/her on to 'true holiness and all the fulness of God'.

God bless and keep,

Dennis

Edited October 28, 2005 by Pilgrim7

[nebula]

You need to be careful viewing what happened in the Acts passage as 'normative". Many of the things that happened in Acts may have been unique to that time. That is because you had the odd situation of people who had believed in Jesus while he was on the earth, yet had not received the Holy Spirit because He had not yet been sent by Jesus into the world. That happened after Jesus' death and resurrection. That issue no longer exists.

OK, EricH -

You trying to turn this into a charasmatic vs. non-charasmatic debate?

[EricH]

You need to be careful viewing what happened in the Acts passage as 'normative". Many of the things that happened in Acts may have been unique to that time. That is because you had the odd situation of people who had believed in Jesus while he was on the earth, yet had not received the Holy Spirit because He had not yet been sent by Jesus into the world. That happened after Jesus' death and resurrection. That issue no longer exists.

OK, EricH -

You trying to turn this into a charasmatic vs. non-charasmatic debate?

No No!!!!

Just that some of the things that may seem odd to us in terms of the order they happend, can be explained by the initial coming of the Holy Spirit. I am not a cessationist in terms of the gifts. I just think we need to be careful of what we take form Acts as normative. Otherwise we may come to believe that salvation and receiving of the HS are two different things. They happen simultaneously. The only exception to that was when the HS first came to those who had believed in Jesus before He died and rose

[Giaour]

Pilgrim,

That helped a lot, thank you.

[yomotalking]

Serious question so don't beat me up over it.

How can the Holy Spirit bring you to Christ if you don't receive the Holy spirit until AFTER you are saved?

I'm honestly not totally clear on that myself. But perhaps this passage (where Jesus addresses the 11 Apostles on the night He is arrested) speaks to your question:

John 14: 17 "..even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dewlls with you, and will be in you."

In one case the Holy Spirit is "with" you; in the other He is "in" you.

Good answer.

I remember a girl say to me "I feel the Holy Spirit with me, but I'm too sinful!"

(She was not a Christian at the time)

Once you get it, you can lose it?

Oh no.........

Another OSAS Thread?>