The 7 year tribulation

[Charlie744]

7 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Tough sleddin Charlie

Your bucking the whole religious psyop of "Daniels future 70th week, Jacobs time of trouble, rapture, future 7 year tribulation," all of it...your raining on their entire end time parade...have you ever seen some of their charts and diagrams for example?

Bro...the rapture clan has the whole thing mapped out...the whole seven years...from  it's beginning...through all that happens incrementally throughout the 7 years nicely divided into 2 3.5 year segments including some minor variances depending on who you read...they don't even agree...yeh.

Additionally, they will tell you about covenants and agreements that are made...when and between who...they share who they believe it is that fulfills each of what they feel are the important positions and places...and what they do...right down into some amazing detail...that kicks off and takes us through the 70th week of Daniel...it's truly amazing.

I have spent way too many hours looking at the the minutia of the ever so intricate plans they see and write about...it is endless.

Each of them feel proud, strong, sure, secure, and well founded...in their personal version of God's secret plan as revealed to them...they use great words...lengthy diatribes...and heated debates...they are all the sons of Greece and reason is their god.

I say that because I have yet to find one of these Tartuffes...I am referring to these folks who prophetically proclaim the inside track on the end of the age...in all of their "wisdom" and "knowledge" and "understanding"...who will stand up and tell us when this absolutely amazing and colorful period of time will begin.

At this point I would take a year designation...though even that is not certain for them...yet they are are talking about another yet future to them "Mark of the Beast" to be rolled out...which they neither know what it is or when it will start.

I mean if I am one of those fools who thinks I will be here during any part of the "opening of the seals, the sounding of the trumpets and the emptying of the bowls" at all...shoot the least one of these end of the age prophets could do for a brother in all their great wisdom is...to tell me when...but no...they won't I just can't get any love from them...they think I am simply irrelevant.

In reality...it's because they have no idea...they are cluelessly "waiting and watching" like "faithful Israel" for their Messiah to come...who indecently...illustriously strolled through the streets of their "holy city" as their Lord...whom they rejected...to appear and take them out of any possible badness happening on the earth

Their rapture and subsequent 70th week of Daniel has no actual begin date...and they know it...they will simply know its time...when they get that "Ferris wheel" tickle in their tummy...that their god has fulfilled their dream of who he is and what he is supposed to do for them and that they are safe in heaven.

Ask them when will their lord return? They have no actual idea...they say things like "when there is a confirmation of the covenant" or some variant...we are watching and waiting...uh huh.

These are beggarly people and their house is is on fire...left to them in desolation...it's not "His" house...it's their house...and they are ill prepared for the days ahead...just like ancient Israel...though by the mercy of God there may be space for repentance for some.

Tatwo...:)

I wish I had your writing skills… but I don’t. 
 

This entire “gap” theory where the last week in the prophecy stopped at the end of week 69 and was thrown 2000 years into the future is mind boggling. But it all began with a Jesuit priest named Riberi in the 16th century. The RCC had been identified as the little horn of Daniel for almost 1000 years. And they created this futurist interpretation at the time of the Reformation to remove this label off of their back. 
 

Because of their immense power, wealth and breath of their church they taught this interpretation to the children of their church members, and to their children’s children, and so on for over 400 years. That maybe close to some 10-20 generations of children. 

 Their futurist interpretation is greatly flawed but it will still only be taken down by the hand of God. This truly evil cancer is now found deep within the body but Gid will cut it out when He deems it the right time. 
 

Enjoyed your comments and your ability to display them to all. 
 

God bless always. 

[douggg]

3 hours ago, tatwo said:

Ask them when will their lord return?

Before the parable of the fig tree generation passes away.

1967 + 70 = 2037     So sometime before the end of 2037 at the latest.

7 years before 2037, i.e. before the end of 2030, the 7 years will begin at the latest.

[Charlie744]

12 minutes ago, douggg said:

Before the parable of the fig tree generation passes away.

1967 + 70 = 2037     So sometime before the end of 2037 at the latest.

7 years before 2037, i.e. before the end of 2030, the 7 years will begin at the latest.

Dougg, where does all of this come from? 
 

First, what is your basis for a 7 year end time event? What verse in the Scriptures tells you this and how did you select 1967? Where does 2030 show up in the Scriptures? How do you select a “parable” of the fig tree and connect it to any of your dates mentioned in your response? 

 

[douggg]

20 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Dougg, where does all of this come from? 
 

First, what is your basis for a 7 year end time event? What verse in the Scriptures tells you this and how did you select 1967? Where does 2030 show up in the Scriptures? How do you select a “parable” of the fig tree and connect it to any of your dates mentioned in your response? 

 

The 7 years comes from these sources:

Daniel 9:27 confirmation of the covenant for 7 years.    In Deuteronomy 31:9-13, Moses made a requirement for all future leaders of Israel to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year cycle.

Ezekiel 39.   Gog/Magog, followed by 7 years verse 9, followed by Armageddon verse 17-20, followed by Jesus returned to this earth, speaking in verse 21-29.

Revelation 6-19 the timeframes given of 1260 days + 42 months, time/times/half time = 2520 days, i.e. 7 years.      The 42 months (beast king rule) and the time/times/haft time (Satan's final days in his kingdom after being cast down to earth) coincide with one another.

-------------------------------

What does the fig tree represent?   It represents Jerusalem.    As Jesus and the disciples were entering Jerusalem the week that Jesus would be crucified, he cursed a fig tree beside the road for having no fruit.     And upon coming out of Jerusalem to overnight at the Mt. of Olives, the disciples marveled that the fig tree had withered up and died so quickly.

Jerusalem back in the hand of the Jews in 1967.

The length of a generation of 70 years comes from Psalms 90:10.

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by douggg

[tatwo]

11 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Enjoyed your comments and your ability to display them to all.

I appreciate that comment Charlie...thank you

I wish no ill for these folks...only that they would find the truth about who the Lord Yahshua Christ is....and what He is presently doing...neither of which seem to be of interest to them. And...that they stop calling evil...good...for the sake of the innocent, ignorant, immature and themselves...prior to judgment.

However I assure you that the Lord of glory is busy preparing "His Body" to finish the age in glory...as the ruler over creation...all entirely contrary to their belief and understanding. That is what is actually presently happening in the kingdom of God on earth right here and now in December of 2023.

The "Mature Son" is soon enough to appear...all will see Him...He will be revealed in His Fathers glory...which means clothed in Christ. He is bringing the standard of God back into His creation...it is a replay of the life of Israel's messiah coming in all over again...this however...is the final iteration of the "man in the image and likeness of God."

To believe that the savior of the world...who was God the Father manifest in the flesh...God incarnate...now the Holy Spirit...would actually leave His sons in the "dark" about any of His plans for the end of the age and His subsequent return...is simply deception and a lack of necessary spiritual discernment of who our Lord is.

Further...to press their "work" forth as "truth" as they do...is an act of spiritual violence for which they currently feel no accountability...and whose source they have not discerned. All of that is rapidly changing...and they will not escape this change....their work will be consumed with fire...it shall not stand.

Their entire "body of work" reveals that there is no understanding whatsoever about the purpose for which the eternal God brought the created heavens and earth in to existence in the first place.

Clearly it was not to support the anthropomorphic Grecian man god who is inspired by demonic reason that fits comfortably into the mind of fallen humanity? That convincing voice that tells mankind that he is God?  

Overcoming is not in view for them...because they do not value that it was the Lamb of God who laid down His life and became the overcoming Lion of the tribe of Judah...as an example for us...they are planning to skip the "sacrificial Lamb" phase of their journey...and simply go to heaven as an overcomer. Nope.

The reason for this is because they do not understand what it is they must overcome Charlie. They think it is you or me that they must overcome with their eloquent truth...they have lost sight of the Lamb...we saw this movie before in Israel.

There are two major themes in scripture and creation for that matter that they are unaware of...

1. Father God the creator put a more than abundant creation in place to bring forth to Himself...a man in the image and likeness of God...which He is presently doing and will complete it....This "Man"...He is the overcomer. 

2. The opposition to the man in the image and likeness of God...this is the one that will be "overcome." This is the one the rapture people cannot see...though their words do reveal.

I will say this Charlie...human life has no particular value apart from the purposes of God...that is how God sees it. Man only has value, from an eternal viewpoint, when he is reconciled to God.

Tatwo...:)

P.S. Remember...the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God....not the conformation of a covenant.

 

[tatwo]

9 hours ago, douggg said:

Before the parable of the fig tree generation passes away.

1967 + 70 = 2037     So sometime before the end of 2037 at the latest.

7 years before 2037, i.e. before the end of 2030, the 7 years will begin at the latest.

OK...so douggg...you are on the record as having said that the return of the Lord in reference to the "rapture"...corresponds relatively to the "antichrist confirming the covenant for 7 years" and that this is going to happen before the end of the future year of 2030...correct? if I am understanding you...I see where you are coming from.

Douggg...you must turn from this "belief"...there is so much about this that misleading but nothing greater than the veiled presentation of the of the negation of the work of the cross...and the cross itself...let me explain with a "type of" example...will you...this may get a bit Catholicish...?

Ohh...this "time of Jacobs trouble" reeks of the spirit of the religious Romish kings...and in type...is reminiscent of the catholic doctrine of "transubstantiation"...coupled with  their doctrine of "Real Presence" because essentially they do the same thing...most however do not see this.

Transubstantiation and Real Presence are  essentially the unbloody celebration of Christs bloody sacrifice on the cross which is the ceremonial slaying of the Christ over and over again followed by the eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood.

This is where the..."unbloody death sacrifice"...and the..."host" is the victim...oh yeh look it up or go talk to a catholic priest as I have done both...ok in keeping with my point.

This then leads to the over and over celebration of the crucifixion of His bloody sacrificial death, where "His presence is literally" in the loaf and cup…and therefore "these elements are worshipped" as the Christ. I am not making this up.

This is nothing less than putting Him...Christ...back upon the cross over and over instead of it being finished just as the Lord reportedly spoke Himself just prior to his death.

Yes...this is true...and it amounts to Christ Yahshua offering Himself to His Father over and over...which offering is never actually accepted and never finished...and as such...there is no offering for sin in this! Yes it is a nasty trick played on the ignorant and unsuspecting among religious humanity...I agree...but they won't listen.

Now the connection with these fallacious catholic doctrines and what the "future 70th week of Daniel" adherent does not understand, and cannot see, and shares with the nominal catholic is this.

In their ignorance they profess that the full intention of the Lord Yahshua's journey that ultimately lead to Golgotha is of no effect...meaning that these doctrines of demons present the idea that there is "no atonement" for the sins of mankind at this time. 

Whether one knows about or believes what I have presented here or not...changes nothing about what I have written. So where do you suppose that "no sacrifice for sin" thinking comes from? Humanities comforting and coveted "man god" no doubt.

Oh did I mention that the Catholics nexus of "transubstantiation and Real Presence" is where we get the word "Christmas?" 

Tatwo...:)

[douggg]

1 hour ago, tatwo said:

OK...so douggg...you are on the record as having said that the return of the Lord in reference to the "rapture"...corresponds relatively to the "antichrist confirming the covenant for 7 years" and that this is going to happen before the end of the future year of 2030...correct? if I am understanding you...I see where you are coming from.

No, I responded to when the Lord's return will be.    I did not say when the rapture would be in my response.

I am on record for saying that the 7 years begin before the end of the 2030.    And Jesus's Return before the end of 2037.

The only factor that could alter what I am on record for - is that a generation of 70 years, could be 80 years, based on what it says in Psalms 90 about a generation.     

-------------------------------------

And yes, I am on record for saying that the 7 years begin before the end of 2030 by act of the Antichrist to confirm Mt. Sinai covenant, on the temple mount.

-------------------------------------

As far as the timing of the rapture/resurrection event.    I am on record as it being anytime between right this very second and the day when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act.

 

[Charlie744]

13 hours ago, douggg said:

The 7 years comes from these sources:

Daniel 9:27 confirmation of the covenant for 7 years.    In Deuteronomy 31:9-13, Moses made a requirement for all future leaders of Israel to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year cycle.

Ezekiel 39.   Gog/Magog, followed by 7 years verse 9, followed by Armageddon verse 17-20, followed by Jesus returned to this earth, speaking in verse 21-29.

Revelation 6-19 the timeframes given of 1260 days + 42 months, time/times/half time = 2520 days, i.e. 7 years.      The 42 months (beast king rule) and the time/times/haft time (Satan's final days in his kingdom after being cast down to earth) coincide with one another.

-------------------------------

What does the fig tree represent?   It represents Jerusalem.    As Jesus and the disciples were entering Jerusalem the week that Jesus would be crucified, he cursed a fig tree beside the road for having no fruit.     And upon coming out of Jerusalem to overnight at the Mt. of Olives, the disciples marveled that the fig tree had withered up and died so quickly.

Jerusalem back in the hand of the Jews in 1967.

The length of a generation of 70 years comes from Psalms 90:10.

 

Unfortunately, I can not speak to Revelation other than the time elements mentioned in Daniel will find their way to Revelation. And “today’s accepted interpretations” for ALL 5 of this time elements in Daniel, whether they apply to the time of Nebuchadnezzar (chapter 4), or the time of the Messiah (8:13-14), and the 1290 days in chapter 12, or the time, times, and 1/2 time in 7:25 (long period of time ending with His second coming), or the 1335 days in chapter 12 - a truly end time event, are all misinterpreted- hence, your reference to Revelation 6:19 will not apply. 
 

As I read your Ezekiel reference, it comes across to me to speak of the times when the Jews were punished and sent to Babylon, but would be restored by the hand of God - not an end time event.

The 3rd reference of 9:27 is, unfortunately, a gross misinterpretation that was created by the RCC in the 16th century. They have taken selected verses found in the 70 weeks of years prophecy (9:24-27) which are ALL SPEAKING of the Messiah, and attributed them to a mythical anti-Christ figure. Essentially, they corrupted His Word by:

1) Intentionally attributing “he” and the beginning of 9:27 as a “he,” when it speaks to “HE,” the coming Messiah who will be crucified in 3.5 years of the last week,

2) Intentionally attributing the “confirmation of the Covenant” spoken by Jeremiah to a fictitious agreement between Israel and the same mythical figure (he),

3) treating the 7 years as the period of time this same mythical figure makes this agreement. 

All 3 of these speak ONLY of the coming Messiah. 
 
He (Messiah) will confirm (not a brand new agreement), the New Covenant with His people DURING the last 7 years of the 70 weeks of years. 
 

Stop and step back a few feet and take in all of chapter 9 in its entirety. God is presenting this chapter as one consistent, interrelated, consecutive MESSIANIC prophecy. This is ALL about the coming Messiah and how He will complete His plan of salvation for mankind. 
 

Certainly, denying the cross is the worst thing anyone could do, but not to far it must be to deny the verses within the same prophecy that reveals His time DURING the final week of His life.

 

But everyone is entitled to their own interpretations. 

[douggg]

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

As I read your Ezekiel reference, it comes across to me to speak of the times when the Jews were punished and sent to Babylon, but would be restored by the hand of God - not an end time event.

In Ezekiel 38:8 and Ezekiel 38:16, the text says latter days and latter years for the Gog/Magog event.

In Ezekiel 39, after God's judgment that destroys Gog's army, there will be a huge burial site in Israel.

There is no such burial site in Israel because Gog/Magog is still future.

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

 

 

[Charlie744]

14 minutes ago, douggg said:

In Ezekiel 38:8 and Ezekiel 38:16, the text says latter days and latter years for the Gog/Magog event.

In Ezekiel 39, after God's judgment that destroys Gog's army, there will be a huge burial site in Israel.

There is no such burial site in Israel because Gog/Magog is still future.

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

 

 

Thanks. I believe I focused on 39:21… which I interpret as the Babylonian captivity, not the end times.

The earlier reference on 39:11 may certainly be speaking on end times - have not studied or read much of Ezekiel.

But these references do not apply to chapter 2:40-43.