Has the 70 Weeks of Daniel prophecy been fulfilled in history ?

[douggg]

28 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

But all of this was generated by the Jesuits in the 16th century AD. And it has indeed taken a life of its own. 

Charlie, the Jesuits had no part in my understanding of the bible.    Let's just stick to the bible passages themselves, okay ?

28 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

But the last week of the prophecy is all about the Messiah. He fulfilled the New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:41-34. He was “cut off” in the middle of the week. By the way, the Covenant IS NOT A 7 YEAR COVENANT! It is the New Covenant that will be fulfilled DURING the last 7 years or the final week of the prophecy. 

I will agree the confirmation of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is not a "7 year covenant".   But the covenant being referred to is the Mt. Sinai covenant, the covenant that Daniel centered his prayer on the first part of Daniel 9.

Daniel would have been familiar with what is written in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 and Moses's requirement to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year cycle.

Charlie,  Ezekiel 38-39 clears up when the Daniel 9:27 7 year 70th week  will take place.   In the latter years, latter days - which we are now living. 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by douggg

[douggg]

51 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

There is absolutely nothing in the book of Daniel that speaks to, about or even refers to a mythical, figure as the “anti-Christ.” 
 

Instead, Gabriel revealed so much information about the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8. This is the one (papacy) that will take over His church and speak against God, against His people, against His saints. He will disobey His 10 Commandments and change the 4th Commandment. He will claim divinity, infallibility, God on earth, and so much more. He has been at this for 1500 years. 

Charlie, the word Pope, papacy, is not in the book of Daniel either.    Nor the Christian church.

[Charlie744]

55 minutes ago, douggg said:

Charlie, the Jesuits had no part in my understanding of the bible.    Let's just stick to the bible passages themselves, okay ?

I will agree the confirmation of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is not a "7 year covenant".   But the covenant being referred to is the Mt. Sinai covenant, the covenant that Daniel centered his prayer on the first part of Daniel 9.

Daniel would have been familiar with what is written in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 and Moses's requirement to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year cycle.

Charlie,  Ezekiel 38-39 clears up when the Daniel 9:27 7 year 70th week  will take place.   In the latter years, latter days - which we are now living. 

 

Thanks Doug. Help me with understanding this... tell me why you believe the covenant is not the New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah? Also, please tell me the difference between the MT. Sinai covenant and the covenant mentioned in Jeremiah. Also, if it does not mean the Jeremiah covenant, what is the purpose of the Jeremiah covenant and when will it be offered, or entered into.

The book of Daniel and its prophecies speak to the Messiah's fist coming. Everything speaks to the plan of restoration after the Babylonian destruction. The most important event in the history of mankind was prophesized in Daniel in the 70 weeks of years prophecy - His first coming. 

 

 

[Charlie744]

35 minutes ago, douggg said:

Charlie, the word Pope, papacy, is not in the book of Daniel either.    Nor the Christian church.

I certainly agree, but the "little horn" is clearly spoken of and there is much revealed about him, what he will do, the timing of his coming, how long he will reign on the earth, who will be the one to destroy him... God has not sparred any ink on revealing this individual. There is only one man (papacy) these many, many verses speak to.

I also don't believe the word Rome is mentioned, but they certainly are the 4th kingdom. 

I believe the only two books where the term "anti-Christ" is used is in 1 and 2 Peter, and they speak to the "spirit of the anti-Christ." Nowhere is there a "man or person or figure" labeled like the one identified as the "little horn," yet so many ignore this evil one (1500 years).

[douggg]

4 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I certainly agree, but the "little horn" is clearly spoken of and there is much revealed about him, what he will do, the timing of his coming, how long he will reign on the earth, who will be the one to destroy him... God has not sparred any ink on revealing this individual. There is only one man (papacy) these many, many verses speak to.

I also don't believe the word Rome is mentioned, but they certainly are the 4th kingdom. 

I believe the only two books where the term "anti-Christ" is used is in 1 and 2 Peter, and they speak to the "spirit of the anti-Christ." Nowhere is there a "man or person or figure" labeled like the one identified as the "little horn," yet so many ignore this evil one (1500 years).

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Charlie, where did they get that notion ?

 

[douggg]

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks Doug. Help me with understanding this... tell me why you believe the covenant is not the New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah? Also, please tell me the difference between the MT. Sinai covenant and the covenant mentioned in Jeremiah. Also, if it does not mean the Jeremiah covenant, what is the purpose of the Jeremiah covenant and when will it be offered, or entered into.

In Jeremiah 31, the new covenant does not have to be confirmed on a 7 year cycle.   And in verse 34, the new covenant involves forgiveness of their sin, and their sin remembered no more.

Edited November 26, 2023 by douggg

[Charlie744]

8 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

You stated that all the 6 tasks have been completed by Jesus Christ the Messiah at his first advent.  One of those 6 was to seal up vision and prophecy.  Either vision and prophecy has been sealed up since Christs death or it hasn't been sealed up.  But since there is vision and prophecy throughout the N.T. and especially Revelation, we know that vision and prophecy have not been sealed up.

I understand your comment but this does depend on one's definition of "sealed or shut up."  They do not mean to shut them up, hide them until the end of time, or anything of that nature. These prophecies were written FOR THE JEWS. They would be sealed (completed, would not have to be changes or altered or amended), and they would be kept "silent" (best term I have right now) until the Jews left Babylon and returned to Jerusalem. The prophecies were written for thier eyes, their reading, their study and intepretation. They would return to Jerusalem, complete the "physical" things of the restoration (land, buildings, Temple, sanctuary, walls, etc.) during the first 49 years and then they would or could focus on the prophecies that speak to the coming of their Messiah. They would / hopefully, interpret the 70 weeks prophecy and await the Messiah. He did arrive exactly on time - the first day of the 70th week of the prophecy. The Jews were certainly expecting Him to come around that time, but they had NO idea or comprehension He would come as a man, a servant and not a king.

8 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Yet, if vision and prophecy has/was sealed up at Christs first advent, then no more new vision and prophecy could occur.  That is why I said no 7 Churches in Rev (prophetic);  No Seal, Trumpet or Bowl judgments in Rev (prophetic); no 144,000, 12,000 from each tribe (prophetic)

I don't see it that way at all. As I mentioned, the 70 weeks prophecy spoke of the coming Messiah. If there were other prophecies outside / before Daniel, they would not be eliminated or done away with. Daniel does not go into much detail about the "true end times." That is not what he was writting about.

8 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

And yes, the sin nature still exists.  Christ provided a way for Salvation for both Jew and Greek (gentile).  But Israel is a different objective in Gods framework, they are Gods Covenant People handiwork.  They were yanked out of the Tree because of unbelief.  But we know that they will be restored and grafted back into the tree. "On that Day" in Zech. 

I agree with you. They will always be His chosen people, He will never abandone them. But He also had a very special responsibility within His plan of salvation. He specifically told us they would be made "desolate" from their God due to their rejection. But He was the One who "blinded" them from seeing Him as their Messiah so the Good News would be spread to the Gentiles. Then, at the end of things their eyes will be made to see He was their Messiah - the jews did not have a choice in designing His plan of salvation when "blinded," and they will not have a choice when He removes their "blindness." This is His plan. The Jews have paid such a horrible price for the Gentiles to be saved.

 

8 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

For me the 70 Sevens in Daniel are a prophetic timeline as to when Israel is grafted back into the Tree "On that Day".  "On that Day" does not happen until the Second Coming when Israel is fully restored.  Thus at their restoration; all 6 tasks of Dan 9:24 become fulfilled, and not before.  For Israel - No more transgression, sin, wickedness, everlasting righteousness happens, vision and prophecy cease, Israel crowns their Messiah who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.  This ushers in the 1000 year reign of Christ.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I think your interpretation is widely accepted today. Most or much of Daniel has been thrown into the far, far future (last 7 years). But ask yourself, at the end of the 69th week, did the Messiah arrive to be baptized in the Jordan? Did He not preach for the next 3.5 years? Did He not predict His own crucifixion in the "midst of the week (last week) in Daniel? Did He not bring in the New Covenant? 

These verses speak to His arrival - after the end of the 69th week, and also His destruction that would take place after th 62 weeks (first 7 weeks had to be completed first). This is why He wrote these verses in the manner He did - there is only one way these two verses - arrival and cut off time elements would be written they way they are. Tell me, if they do not apply to the Messiah, please give me the understanding when these two time elements will be relevant and to whom if not the Messiah?

[Charlie744]

20 minutes ago, douggg said:

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Charlie, where did they get that notion ?

 

Yes, I agree... there will be many, many, billions of anti-Christ's... meaning they will go against Christ's teachings, they will not accept Him as their Lord and Saviour... but Jesus did not say there is this ONE anti-Christ figure to expect to see... He even mentions they are present at His time... the Pharisees who would reject Him, the Romans who would crucify Him, on and on... and certainly after the cross. But God spent a great deal of time and ink identifying and calling out ONLY ONE LITTLE HORN. This little horn would speak blasphemous things aganst God, His people, His sainsts, he would murder tens of millions if they disagreed with their new doctrines (that did not follow God's found in the Scriptures). 

Consequentl, they (anti- Christ peoples) were in existence at the time of the Messiah, after the cross and will be until the end of time. They don't accept Jesus or His teachings. 

[Charlie744]

15 minutes ago, douggg said:

In Jeremiah 31, the new covenant does not have to be confirmed on a 7 year cycle.   And in verse 34, the new covenant involves forgiveness of their sin, and their sin remember no more.

I agree. The New Covenant is a permanent, condidtional covenant between God and mankind (both Jew and Gentile) offered through the cross, and available to anyone on the planet. It was given to us DURING THE LAST WEEK (7 YEARS), IT IS NOT A 7 year covenant and no covenant with God requires a renewal period (as we sometimes thing of an agreement with our man agreements).It simply means we have to accept this agreement with God.

If we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, He will NOT see our sins when He returns. They will be covered over. If we do not accept Him, we had no hope of being in His presence - we would have rejected His sacrifice of the cross. And ONLY His sacrifice could pay the price for our sins.

[douggg]

20 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I understand your comment but this does depend on one's definition of "sealed or shut up."  They do not mean to shut them up, hide them until the end of time, or anything of that nature. These prophecies were written FOR THE JEWS. They would be sealed (completed, would not have to be changes or altered or amended), and they would be kept "silent" (best term I have right now) until the Jews left Babylon and returned to Jerusalem. The prophecies were written for thier eyes, their reading, their study and intepretation. They would return to Jerusalem, complete the "physical" things of the restoration (land, buildings, Temple, sanctuary, walls, etc.) during the first 49 years and then they would or could focus on the prophecies that speak to the coming of their Messiah. They would / hopefully, interpret the 70 weeks prophecy and await the Messiah. He did arrive exactly on time - the first day of the 70th week of the prophecy. The Jews were certainly expecting Him to come around that time, but they had NO idea or comprehension He would come as a man, a servant and not a king.

I don't see it that way at all. As I mentioned, the 70 weeks prophecy spoke of the coming Messiah. If there were other prophecies outside / before Daniel, they would not be eliminated or done away with. Daniel does not go into much detail about the "true end times." That is not what he was writting about.

I agree with you. They will always be His chosen people, He will never abandone them. But He also had a very special responsibility within His plan of salvation. He specifically told us they would be made "desolate" from their God due to their rejection. But He was the One who "blinded" them from seeing Him as their Messiah so the Good News would be spread to the Gentiles. Then, at the end of things their eyes will be made to see He was their Messiah - the jews did not have a choice in designing His plan of salvation when "blinded," and they will not have a choice when He removes their "blindness." This is His plan. The Jews have paid such a horrible price for the Gentiles to be saved.

 

I think your interpretation is widely accepted today. Most or much of Daniel has been thrown into the far, far future (last 7 years). But ask yourself, at the end of the 69th week, did the Messiah arrive to be baptized in the Jordan? Did He not preach for the next 3.5 years? Did He not predict His own crucifixion in the "midst of the week (last week) in Daniel? Did He not bring in the New Covenant? 

These verses speak to His arrival - after the end of the 69th week, and also His destruction that would take place after th 62 weeks (first 7 weeks had to be completed first). This is why He wrote these verses in the manner He did - there is only one way these two verses - arrival and cut off time elements would be written they way they are. Tell me, if they do not apply to the Messiah, please give me the understanding when these two time elements will be relevant and to whom if not the Messiah?

Okay, we can cross off the little horn, as being the basis for the notion that them John was speaking to in 1John2:18 had heard antichrist (singular) shall come.

So where did they get that notion that antichrist (singular) shall come ?