New Covenant in Daniel

[Charlie744]

I am confused.... again. I believe the New Covenant in Daniel is the one referenced in Jeremiah 31"31-34. It has been cover omentioned that the covenant the Messiah "confirmed" in Daniel is not the Jeremiah covenant but the Mt. Sinia covenant.

First, let me state my position and then everyone, anyone can respond to it; The covenant God mande on Mt. Sinai with His people was the 10 commandments (simplified). Believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, obey His 10 commandment and of course, worship Him and Him only. That was, if you will, an "external" covenant, recorded on stone tablets. These documented the "way" the Jews should act and believe with the One and only God as well towards their fellow man.

Unfortunately, NO ONE could EVER obey and keep His commandments - we do not have the power to do so. But God knew this, so He would also establish some holy days (Yom Kippur) that, should they attend and keep holy, it would cover over their sins that were done the previous year.

However, the NEW covenant would be made better, perfect, by the blood of the Lamb. It is the exact same covenant given to Moses BUT it moves from the external to the internal. No longer written externally on the two tablets to be kept, but now, if you accept the sacrifice on the cross, He will send His Holy Spirit (that was also externally present in the desert for 40 years) into each one of us shoudl we accept Jesus as the Messiah. It is a better covenant - we now have His Holy Spirit WITHIN US and He will write those same laws into our heart and mind. And further, with the unlimited power of the Holy Spirit, we would never be without the ability to keep His Words. That is, unless we failed to ask Him for His guidance, help and power. Thus, so many will accept Jesus as their Messiah, but think that is sufficient to get them into heaven. Only with  bringing His Holy Spirit within us can we have a truy personal relationship with God while on this side of life. .... Many will call out my name, but I will say to them, "I never knew you." It is not enough to know Jesus is God...

So, please let me know y0ur thoughts on the two different covenants mentioned, their differences and what did God confirm in Daniel's writings.

[Charlie744]

Come on you guys.... I have been told by at lease a few posters in Worthy that there is a difference between the Mt. Sinai covenant and the covenant the Messiah will confirm in Jeremiah.  Thanks.

[douggg]

8 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Come on you guys.... I have been told by at lease a few posters in Worthy that there is a difference between the Mt. Sinai covenant and the covenant the Messiah will confirm in Jeremiah.  Thanks.

The Mt. Sinai covenant was a covenant that established a relationship between God and the children of Israel on a national basis.    And by it, they were promised the land of Israel as theirs forever.    And by it, a set of laws was given they were to obey to continue in right standing with God.

Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 made a requirement that every 7 years all future leaders of Israel confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant by having the law of Moses read to the nation of Israel on the feast of tabernacles, from the place of God's choosing (currently considered to be the temple mount by the Jews).

Differently, the New Covenant in Jeremiah involves a spiritual change to the heart.   Jesus called that being born again.    The New covenant determines the eternal destiny of a person, and not just the children of Israel, but to every human, beyond the short time we dwell in the natural bodies of ours, to be in relationship with God - forever.    

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by douggg

[Charlie744]

8 hours ago, douggg said:

The Mt. Sinai covenant was a covenant that established a relationship between God and the children of Israel on a national basis.    And by it, they were promised the land of Israel as theirs forever.    And by it, a set of laws was given they were to obey to continue in right standing with God.

Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 made a requirement that every 7 years all future leaders of Israel confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant by having the law of Moses read to the nation of Israel on the feast of tabernacles, from the place of God's choosing (currently considered to be the temple mount by the Jews).

Differently, the New Covenant in Jeremiah involves a spiritual change to the heart.   Jesus called that being born again.    The New covenant determines the eternal destiny of a person, and not just the children of Israel, but to every human, beyond the short time we dwell in the natural bodies of ours, to be in relationship with God - forever.    

 

Thanks Doug. The covenant given at Mt. Sinai, in addition to being given the Torah, is the 10 commandments. As you know, they were written on a set of stone tablets. They were an external covenant if you will. 
The covenant in Jeremiah is these same 10 commandments but now they are being given to man internally. Should one accept Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross, the Holy Spirit will place them within your heart and minds. A better covenant. If asked, the Holy Spirit will come into us and give us all the strength and power we need to obey these commandments and walk in the way of the Lord. 
 

In the desert, the 10 commandments and the Shekinah  Glory were both external. Now, they can be placed within us. 
 

[douggg]

19 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

The covenant in Jeremiah is these same 10 commandments but now they are being given to man internally.

Matthew 22:

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[abcdef]

On 11/25/2023 at 8:08 PM, Charlie744 said:

I am confused.... again. I believe the New Covenant in Daniel is the one referenced in Jeremiah 31"31-34. It has been cover omentioned that the covenant the Messiah "confirmed" in Daniel is not the Jeremiah covenant but the Mt. Sinia covenant.

Jesus confirmed all the covenants from Adam through Pentecost. He confirms the Pentecost covenant even today by His gift of the Holy Spirit that someone receives at baptism.

[NConly]

On 11/27/2023 at 6:50 PM, Charlie744 said:

Come on you guys.... I have been told by at lease a few posters in Worthy that there is a difference between the Mt. Sinai covenant and the covenant the Messiah will confirm in Jeremiah.  Thanks.

 

Jere31

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Most people ignore the under lined portion of the verse above. Also Jesus offered eternal life to us if we live by is rules and commandments we can only accept or reject. we can not add to or take away from or modify the New Covenant. After the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah and rejected the new Covenant it was Offered to the Gentiles who were never under any covenant with God in the past. Jesus in the Red Letters lays out the New covenant and make clear what we are to follow. He spoke the commandments we are to keep. Jesus taught for 3 years and not once did he say Keep the Ten commandments. He soke the commandments He wants us to keep. and says in John 15:10

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

[WilliamL]

On 11/25/2023 at 7:08 PM, Charlie744 said:

I believe the New Covenant in Daniel is the one referenced in Jeremiah 31"31-34.

The covenant in Daniel 9:27, if that is what you mean, has nothing to do with the passage in Jeremiah. Two entirely different covenants, under two entirely different circumstances.

[Charlie744]

3 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

The covenant in Daniel 9:27, if that is what you mean, has nothing to do with the passage in Jeremiah. Two entirely different covenants, under two entirely different circumstances.

No, I don’t think so… that is, unless you believe that He at the beginning of 9:27 is “he” and not “He”.

I interpret He as “He” and the Messiah came through confirm the New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah’s prophecy. At it not for a 7 year period, it is the Covenant He will confirm DURING the final 7 year period (last week of Daniel’s 70 weeks of years prophecy). But as you know, He was “cut off in the midst of the week.”

This was His mission- to confirm the New Covenant and fulfill 9:24. The book of Daniel is about His first coming and setting up His kingdom on earth and His plan of salvation for both Jews and Gentiles. 

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

8 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

No, I don’t think so… that is, unless you believe that He at the beginning of 9:27 is “he” and not “He”.

I interpret He as “He” and the Messiah came through confirm the New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah’s prophecy. At it not for a 7 year period, it is the Covenant He will confirm DURING the final 7 year period (last week of Daniel’s 70 weeks of years prophecy). But as you know, He was “cut off in the midst of the week.”

This was His mission- to confirm the New Covenant and fulfill 9:24. The book of Daniel is about His first coming and setting up His kingdom on earth and His plan of salvation for both Jews and Gentiles.

The Messiah "He" that was cut off is not the "he" that subsequently destroys Jerusalem and confirms a covenant. Daniel 26b-27 is one continuous narrative tied together by the vav-consecutive that begins verse 27.

42. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 4: Verse 26

A detailed translation and grammatical explanation of Daniel 9:26, followed by a summary of the three current primary views on its prophetic meaning. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1592-daniel-924-27-examined-part-4-verse-26/

43. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 5: Verse 27

A very detailed translation and grammatical explanation of Daniel 9:27, which reveals various mistranslations found in different English versions of the Bible.   https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1598-daniel-924-27-examined-part-5-verse-27/