Paul prophesied the falling away of the end times church, is that happening ?

[RdJ]

I heard or read a while ago it meant rapture.

[douggg]

6 hours ago, tatwo said:

Wow...that is quite a drawing...I downloaded it...how long did it take you to put this together? May I ask when you made it? Are you absolutely dead set with this as it is or open for discussion?

Tatwo...:)

Well, it only took me about fifty years to put it all together - smiles.   I am 74, almost 75.

I made it in July of 2020. 

Yes, I am dead set with it.   But I will discuss any part of it.    I am humble about it because I realize that I am no-body.

I have many other charts and illustrations to convey certain other biblical concepts as well.

But if I had to choose just one, that one I posted and you downloaded (I am happy that you did) would be it.

 

[tatwo]

3 hours ago, douggg said:

Well, it only took me about fifty years to put it all together - smiles.   I am 74, almost 75.

I made it in July of 2020. 

Yes, I am dead set with it.   But I will discuss any part of it.    I am humble about it because I realize that I am no-body.

I have many other charts and illustrations to convey certain other biblical concepts as well.

But if I had to choose just one, that one I posted and you downloaded (I am happy that you did) would be it.

Yes douggg I could tell this is a labor of passion and time...thank you for sharing with me. May I ask if you have "received the Holy Spirit since you believed?" Please do not be offended, if you and I were in a conversation face to face it would not be at all uncharacteristic of me to ask you or anyone that question.

These forums bring an added layer of "communication challenge"...that is not required when face to face. 

It at times feels like you have to post so many words to explain yourself...then you wonder if anyone will read it and if it flows as you mean it to. If the post is too short...perhaps the point will not come through...whatever its a layer of communication one must overcome if one want's to participate in this way.

So you are presenting your "concept-idea-interpretation" of 2520 days or 7 literal years worth of days which many refer to as the 7 years of tribulation generally broke into 3.5 years of "tribulation" and then 3.5 years of "great tribulation"...you however have it a bit different.

1185 days of tribulation and  1335 days of great tribulation is there a denominational aspect to this view douggg? 

I have never really agreed that the 70th week is yet future. As I see it douggg...it took place right after the 69th week...that's how God does things...so you can see distance between our understandings.

I have included a drawing that I did 13 years ago...hopefully it shows up for you. There is a lot behind this drawing as you are probably aware...Messiah was cut off in the middle of the week.

Since those years back...where I put this together actually had a couple of brothers who helped me with it...I have moved on to an entirely and completely different view of the end of this age douggg...though some of the elements of your drawing may yet take place...a future 70th week and it's false companion "the rapture of the church" is not something I see spiritually nor do I see it in the Scripture.

I am open to share more if you were up for it...

[douggg]

1 hour ago, tatwo said:

Yes douggg I could tell this is a labor of passion and time...thank you for sharing with me. May I ask if you have "received the Holy Spirit since you believed?" Please do not be offended, if you and I were in a conversation face to face it would not be at all uncharacteristic of me to ask you or anyone that question.

When I made my single line prayer to God, alone one on one,  about Jesus being His Way, earnest yet theologically simple - "God, if Jesus is Your Way, then I accept Him" - God responded as soon as the words left my lips, and I was instantly borne again by the power of the Holy Spirit. It changed me forever.

Even though at the time, theologically speaking, I had not heard about being born again, yet I experienced it.

So the answer is yes, and the Holy Spirit will be with me forever, in my soul forever.       My soul has been redeemed.   I await the rapture/resurrection for my body to be redeemed, the blessed hope in Christ.   

My deep relationship with God can be described as Believe God, Love God, Trust God.  God is Wonderful, full of Love, mercy, and grace.

---------------------------------------------------------

Yes, your chart, I was able to view.    I know that there are many who consider the 70 weeks over.   Also another large group who consider only half of the 70th week is still future.

I don't hold either of those particular views.

Here is my chart...

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by douggg

[farouk]

1 hour ago, tatwo said:

Yes douggg I could tell this is a labor of passion and time...thank you for sharing with me. May I ask if you have "received the Holy Spirit since you believed?" Please do not be offended, if you and I were in a conversation face to face it would not be at all uncharacteristic of me to ask you or anyone that question.

These forums bring an added layer of "communication challenge"...that is not required when face to face. 

It at times feels like you have to post so many words to explain yourself...then you wonder if anyone will read it and if it flows as you mean it to. If the post is too short...perhaps the point will not come through...whatever its a layer of communication one must overcome if one want's to participate in this way.

So you are presenting your "concept-idea-interpretation" of 2520 days or 7 literal years worth of days which many refer to as the 7 years of tribulation generally broke into 3.5 years of "tribulation" and then 3.5 years of "great tribulation"...you however have it a bit different.

1185 days of tribulation and  1335 days of great tribulation is there a denominational aspect to this view douggg? 

I have never really agreed that the 70th week is yet future. As I see it douggg...it took place right after the 69th week...that's how God does things...so you can see distance between our understandings.

I have included a drawing that I did 13 years ago...hopefully it shows up for you. There is a lot behind this drawing as you are probably aware...Messiah was cut off in the middle of the week.

Since those years back...where I put this together actually had a couple of brothers who helped me with it...I have moved on to an entirely and completely different view of the end of this age douggg...though some of the elements of your drawing may yet take place...a future 70th week and it's false companion "the rapture of the church" is not something I see spiritually nor do I see it in the Scripture.

I am open to share more if you were up for it...

Romans 8.9 shows that all truly born again believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

[douggg]

1 hour ago, tatwo said:

1185 days of tribulation and  1335 days of great tribulation is there a denominational aspect to this view douggg? 

no.

[tatwo]

6 hours ago, douggg said:

When I made my single line prayer to God, alone one on one,  about Jesus being His Way, earnest yet theologically simple - "God, if Jesus is Your Way, then I accept Him" - God responded as soon as the words left my lips, and I was instantly borne again by the power of the Holy Spirit. It changed me forever.

Even though at the time, theologically speaking, I had not heard about being born again, yet I experienced it.

So the answer is yes, and the Holy Spirit will be with me forever, in my soul forever.       My soul has been redeemed.   I await the rapture/resurrection for my body to be redeemed, the blessed hope in Christ.   

My deep relationship with God can be described as Believe God, Love God, Trust God.  God is Wonderful, full of Love, mercy, and grace.

I would never even attempt to discredit ones encounter with the eternal living God in Christ…I am thankful that you have experienced all that you have…really douggg.

At the same time I would feel remiss if I did not point out to you a very important teaching concerning both being born again and entering into the kingdom of God...your testimony as posted describes the concept of what Yahshua told Nicodemus in John 3:3…”Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Consider how this plays out for Nicodemus…“Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” (John 3:1-2 NASB)

With Yahshua “being the kingdom of God” coming to earth in a man for the first time…Nicodemus rightly points out that he himself has understood or seen Yahshua as the living representative sent by God…Nicodemus comes to Lord at night because he has had an eye opening encounter with the Lord Yahshua and can see God in Him and the works that He does.

It may be of some importance to remember that Nicodemus was a ruler of the Jews and a Pharisee and that in “seeing” (the word perceive) ”Yahshua Christ” via the encounter he speaks of in vs. 2…who is the kingdom of God that had now come to earth as prophesied…perhaps he Nicodemus was born again at that point? He certainly fit the Lord’s description of one who is born again…because he can see the kingdom of God in Christ…wouldn’t you agree?

This speaks similarly to my own “born again” encounter…the Lord Yahshua healed me from a sickness before I even knew Him…though I was crying out to Him in pain and fear…you have had a living spiritual encounter with the Holy Spirit…He reveals Himself to you in a unique and precious way…this is being “born again”…as you have been douggg.

However Nicodemus seems confused or just messing around a bit if you look at his response…"How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" This is rhetorical…Nicodemus knows better...he knows that he has encountered the man sent from God that fits the OT prophetic description of the Messiah…this by the signs He works…whom he is pursuing at that very moment…late that evening.

At this point the Lord seems to completely ignore Nicodemus’ question altogether…and responds…”Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

So the Lord moves from “see” (G1492 eidó - be aware, behold, consider, perceive) the kingdom of God to when you encounter Him…to…“enter” (G1525 eiserchomai - to go in to) the kingdom of God…after you encounter Him…you obey Him by doing as He says and become “born of the water and the Spirit.”

When a person “sees – encounters the very real presence” of the Lord Yahshua for the first time…the “born again” experience is one of understanding that you are dead in sin…as you see His glory and beauty…this produces the opportunity to “repent” of your old life and lifestyle that was lived apart from Him. This is “dying to the old nature that was in control and guilty of sin” when the old man dies…it then requires burial…in the waters of baptism.

The water symbolizes the “Word and the blood”…you go into the grave a slave and an orphan in the kingdom of darkness…that dead man is then buried in the “promise” of a new life in your Father’s house…you are cleansed, forgiven, resurrected and ready to become a new born living son of God. At this point you ask the Father to fill your “spirit with His Spirit” which he will…now you are a “new creation”…in the Body of Christ as a son of the living God.

We know the Lord Himself was baptized in the waters of the Jordan River…and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove descended upon Him there…and His Father pronounced Yahshua as His Son. Yahshua went in the son of man and came out the Son of God…that is what is in view here with the process of “entering into the kingdom of God.”

As the Lord is finishing up with Nicodemus…He tells Nicodemus why that process in its entirety is absolutely essential in every aspect…it’s because…”That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Nicodemus…if you stay in the place you were spiritually before you had seen me for who I AM, you stay in the flesh…flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...but if you obey my “Words to you” you will be granted eternal life by My Holy Spirit.

If you have gone through this process of becoming a new creature in Christ douggg…carry on brother as a glorious son of God…and pray for the revelation of the corporate son of God as He is coming forth...if not…I suggest that you carefully consider what I have posted here…you need it.