Daniel chapter 2 (no not Revelation) by verse

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I agree, the feet were part of the 4th kingdom and then was divided. The original 4th kingdom of pagan Rome was replaced by papal Rome, but papal Rome did not come out of the “sea”. They came out of pagan Rome, meaning they were not supposed to set themselves up as a kingdom. 
 

 

The Papal organization is RELIGIOUS  and today they come under the religion of the United Nations, of `Mother Earth,` and their moral values - inclusive, tolerant, respect, etc (of all sorts of pagan activities).

The Pope is just one of the many religions under the world religion of the UN.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Can you find in Daniel that he included in any verse that there were 5 kingdoms? 
 

The feet were part of the 4th kingdom no different than the 2 arms of the 2nd kingdom… but there was no division in the 2nd kingdom. 
 

Only the little horn and papal Rome was arrogant enough to make a “kingdom of THEIR own making.”

1.`The image`s head was of fine gold,

2.its chest and arms of silver,

3.its belly and thighs of bronze,

4. its legs of iron,

5. its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. `

[Marilyn C]

[Charlie744]

25 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

The Papal organization is RELIGIOUS  and today they come under the religion of the United Nations, of `Mother Earth,` and their moral values - inclusive, tolerant, respect, etc (of all sorts of pagan activities).

The Pope is just one of the many religions under the world religion of the UN.

He is the little horn of Daniel.

[Charlie744]

23 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

1.`The image`s head was of fine gold,

2.its chest and arms of silver,

3.its belly and thighs of bronze,

4. its legs of iron,

5. its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. `

You could have broken these verses into as many parts as you like, but there is no verse that hints of a 5th kingdom. Please go through chapter 7 and look when Gabriel declares there are 4 beast kingdoms. If there were 5 in chapter 2 there would be 5 in chapter 7. 
 

But everyone is entitled to interpret Scriptures as they see them. As I mentioned earlier, there is no consensus on most of the “major” issues in Daniel and how the academics, scholars and scholars theologians see them. 

[Charlie744]

26 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Again, this s is simply someone’s interpretation that chapter 2 metal man image. There are hundreds of these pics throughout the internet that reflect how many kingdoms there are. I have seen a few that treat the Medes as a separate kingdom and the Persians as the 3rd kingdom to be followed by Greece.. 

 

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Again, this s is simply someone’s interpretation that chapter 2 metal man image. There are hundreds of these pics throughout the internet that reflect how many kingdoms there are. I have seen a few that treat the Medes as a separate kingdom and the Persians as the 3rd kingdom to be followed by Greece.. 

Shabbat shalom, Charlie.

Just as the head was treated separately from the chest as two separate kingdoms, it would make sense that the feet were listed separately from the legs to also show a separation between the two. The legs and the feet were made of two separate materials, even though the feet contained an amalgamation of the material in the legs (the iron) and the clay.

The head and the chest were treated separately because the Persians came into Babylon and conquered the Babylonians. They were NOT the same kingdom, even though they consisted of the same people! Only the leadership changed!

I believe the same will be found to be true between the legs of iron and the feet of the iron/clay amalgamation. "Clay," by the way, forms POTTERY and can shatter easily by a blow to it. When mixed with iron, it might take a particular blow to destroy it, but it IS destroyed by being struck with the "stone cut out of the mountain without hands."

It was a DREAM that YHWH God gave to Nevukhadnetsar (Nebuchadnezzar). Only Daniel of all the magi under Nevukhadnetsar was given the dream and its interpretation by God; so, we should pay the greater attention to what Daniel said!

[Charlie744]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Charlie.

Just as the head was treated separately from the chest as two separate kingdoms, it would make sense that the feet were listed separately from the legs to also show a separation between the two. The legs and the feet were made of two separate materials, even though the feet contained an amalgamation of the material in the legs (the iron) and the clay.

The head and the chest were treated separately because the Persians came into Babylon and conquered the Babylonians. They were NOT the same kingdom, even though they consisted of the same people! Only the leadership changed!

I believe the same will be found to be true between the legs of iron and the feet of the iron/clay amalgamation. "Clay," by the way, forms POTTERY and can shatter easily by a blow to it. When mixed with iron, it might take a particular blow to destroy it, but it IS destroyed by being struck with the "stone cut out of the mountain without hands."

It was a DREAM that YHWH God gave to Nevukhadnetsar (Nebuchadnezzar). Only Daniel of all the magi under Nevukhadnetsar was given the dream and its interpretation by God; so, we should pay the greater attention to what Daniel said!

Thank you for responding. ALWAYS enjoy reading your thoughts and understanding of the Scriptures!!!

I think the two iron legs are quite appropriate to represent the 4th kingdom of Rome. From a secular point of view they certainly can be connected to “iron” in their use of weapons and their seemingly inability that be harmed by lesser nations. And, at that time, there was no much defense against the iron like force of Rome (figuratively and literally). And, if we were to continue with this symbolism, their iron feet would equate with their “stamping down or crushing” their opponents. These legs and feet would travel the known world crushing all its it path. 
 

But there is also a “spiritual” symbolism God is using with the legs and specifically the feet,”.

I believe the clay component refers to the Jews that also have been conquered by the Romans and are kept under their control like any other of the conquered nations (but God is only interested in His people in His prophecies). 
 

The Jews would be kept symbolically at the end of their feet. Completely encased (controlled) by pagan Rome. They may have been given some autonomy as it related to their worship of their One invisible God, but the Romans thought they to be a very strange people difficult people. 
 

The feet that Nebuchadnezzar saw in his Dream Sequence was the legs and feet. The feet were described of a mix of iron and clay- in that order!

Later, Daniel reveals this clay in verse 33 (Dream sequence) was a ceramic type clay - hardened as if it was hardened in a furnace. This clay is a hard clay that is not malleable. It will not change its form. It is strong but brittle. This smooth hardened clay mixed with the iron would give the appearance the feet were encased in this hardened cover. Nebuchadnezzar could not see the individual toes… only the feet. Later on, in the “Interpretation sequence” provided by Daniel, he reveals the clay in verse 33 is a ceramic clay. The legs and the feet represent pagan Rome. 

In verse 35, the Stone strikes the feet (not the toes) and breaks apart THEM apart. EVERYONE interprets 2:34 and 2:35 to occur AT THE SAME TIME- at His second coming where He will destroy the 5 elements (4 metals and clay) into pieces and crush them and throw them into the wind… 

But I believe that 2:34 represents His FIRST COMING where He will break apart (not the 4 kingdoms), but ONLY the two elements in the feet. He did not come to destroy but to divide. The Stone (Messiah) will strike the feet and break or separate or divide the iron from the clay. This symbolizes the cross. He will separate the iron (pagan Rome) from the ceramic clay encasing those that will be found throughout be a “potter’s clay (Jews). God, the Potter, had the right to make / choose those He will deem potters clay or not. 
 

These potters clay will accept Jesus as their Messiah (after the Cross) and preach the Good News to the world. The Jews that continue to reject the Messiah are still seen as “ceramic clay” - they refuse to be molded by the hand of the Potter, and thus, they will be broken and shattered into pieces. 
 

Verses 2:41-43 discuss the results of the Stone striking the feet. Now, we find a “divided” kingdom which will become papal Rome. This kingdom will be composed of “partly clay and partly iron” - in that order! Now, the clay has taken a superior position that of the iron. Meaning, this growing Jewish/Christian church (which could only come about due the Stone breaking apart the two elements in the feet), would be dominated by Christians over pagans within the still alive pagan Rome kingdom. 
 

Then, Daniel starts to offer a few comparisons of this “divided” kingdom composed of clay and iron- in that order, to the kingdom in verse 33 (pagan Rome) composed of iron and clay- in that order. 
 

These few verses reveals the 4th kingdom before and after the Cross ((Stone striking the feet). Pagan Rome will eventually be slain and its body destroyed (7:11), will be succeeded by papal Rome and headed by the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 (papacy). 
 

And notice in 2:41, during this particular comparison- this “divided” kingdom (come to be known as papal Rome), will STILL  have the “strength of iron” within it. Meaning, although this papal Roman kingdom will CLAIM to be a “spiritual” kingdom, they will have at their disposal and USE in great measure the iron or the military like powers / strength of pagan Rome. They are not a “passive” or “spiritual” kingdom as they claim, but will resort to military powers, murder, torture, etc. against ALL who would not worship this new church and the pope. They would be forced to accept the pagan practices brought into THEIR church and accept their the pope was god on earth, his infallibility, his ability to forgive sin, on and on !

But at His second coming (2:35), some 2000 years later, He will crush ALL 5 ELEMENTS to be found no more. 
 

This is just a part from my book - new interpretations of the book of Daniel. 

 

 

 

 

[Retrobyter]

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you for responding. ALWAYS enjoy reading your thoughts and understanding of the Scriptures!!!

Shabbat shalom, Charlie.

Thank you. I always try to keep it about the subject and the proofs and never about the people who make statments and conclusions.

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I think the two iron legs are quite appropriate to represent the 4th kingdom of Rome.

I agree.

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

From a secular point of view they certainly can be connected to “iron” in their use of weapons and their seemingly inability that be harmed by lesser nations. And, at that time, there was not much defense against the iron like force of Rome (figuratively and literally).

This makes good, historic sense.

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

And, if we were to continue with this symbolism, their iron feet would equate with their “stamping down or crushing” their opponents. These legs and feet would travel the known world crushing all its it path.

Here, I'm not so sure.

First, let's consider HOW the information was related to Daniel:

Daniel 2:19-23 (KJV)

19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven. 20 Daniel answered and said,

"Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: 21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: 22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what [is] in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him. 23 I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast [now] made known unto us the king's matter."

Nevukhadnetsar was given a dream, but Daniel had a "night vision!" This was MORE than just a dream; God REVEALED what was going to happen to Daniel. So, when we read Daniel's words to the king, we see this: First, Daniel explains to the king just how God had revealed to him the information that he needed:

Daniel 2:24-30 (KJV)

24 Therefore Daniel went in unto Arioch, whom the king had ordained to destroy the wise [men] of Babylon: he went and said thus unto him;

"Destroy not the wise [men] of Babylon: bring me in before the king, and I will shew unto the king the interpretation."

25 Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste, and said thus unto him,

"I have found a man of the captives of Judah, that will make known unto the king the interpretation."

26 The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name [was] Belteshazzar,

"Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?"

27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said,

"The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise [men], the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king; 28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; 29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came [into thy mind] upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass. 30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for [any] wisdom that I have more than any living, but for [their] sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart."

Then, he got down to the "nitty-gritty":

Daniel 2:31-45 (KJV)

31 "Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness [was] excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof [was] terrible. 32 This image's head [was] of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

36 "This [is] the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

37 "Thou, O king, [art] a king of kings (an emperor): for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou [art] this head of gold. (NOTICE: Not "his kingdom was the head, but HE was the head! In the KJV, "thee's" and "thou's" are singular; "you's" and "ye's" are plural.)

39 "And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all [things]: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44 And in the days of THESE KINGS shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream [is] certain, and the interpretation thereof sure."

Finally, the results were recalled:

Daniel 2:46-49 (KJV)

46 Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped (b0wed before) Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him. 47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said,

"Of a truth [it is], that your God [is] a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret."

48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise [men] of Babylon. 49 Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel [sat] in the gate of the king.

So, I see a recognizable separation between the legs and the feet. In fact, since the trunk consisted of the belly and the thighs, it doesn't leave too much for the legs if part of the legs is understood as part of the feet.

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

But there is also a “spiritual” symbolism God is using with the legs and specifically the feet,”

Please! Don't use that OVERUSED, UNDER-EXPLAINED, MISUNDERSTOOD word "spiritual!" It's nothing but religious "FLUFF," and it has NO SIGNIFICANCE to this image!

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I believe the clay component refers to the Jews that also have been conquered by the Romans and are kept under their control like any other of the conquered nations (but God is only interested in His people in His prophecies). 

I don't. I believe the mixture of iron and clay is more a mixture of the RULERSHIP of the nation, a mixture of Roman emperors and the Roman Senate.

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

The Jews would be kept symbolically at the end of their feet. Completely encased (controlled) by pagan Rome. They may have been given some autonomy as it related to their worship of their One invisible God, but the Romans thought they to be a very strange people difficult people. 

If they were the clay "entirely encased" within the iron, then how could one see that they consisted of both iron and clay?

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

The feet that Nebuchadnezzar saw in his Dream Sequence was the legs and feet. The feet were described of a mix of iron and clay- in that order!

Later, Daniel reveals this clay in verse 33 (Dream sequence) was a ceramic type clay - hardened as if it was hardened in a furnace. This clay is a hard clay that is not malleable. It will not change its form. It is strong but brittle. This smooth hardened clay mixed with the iron would give the appearance the feet were encased in this hardened cover. Nebuchadnezzar could not see the individual toes… only the feet. Later on, in the “Interpretation sequence” provided by Daniel, he reveals the clay in verse 33 is a ceramic clay. The legs and the feet represent pagan Rome. 

Actually, Daniel referred to it as a "miry clay." (See verse 43.)

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

In verse 35, the Stone strikes the feet (not the toes) and breaks THEM apart. EVERYONE interprets 2:34 and 2:35 to occur AT THE SAME TIME- at His second coming where He will destroy the 5 elements (4 metals and clay) into pieces and crush them and throw them into the wind… 

But I believe that 2:34 represents His FIRST COMING where He will break apart (not the 4 kingdoms), but ONLY the two elements in the feet. He did not come to destroy but to divide. The Stone (Messiah) will strike the feet and break or separate or divide the iron from the clay. This symbolizes the cross. He will separate the iron (pagan Rome) from the ceramic clay encasing those that will be found throughout be a “potter’s clay (Jews). God, the Potter, had the right to make / choose those He will deem potters clay or not. 

These potters clay will accept Jesus as their Messiah (after the Cross) and preach the Good News to the world. The Jews that continue to reject the Messiah are still seen as “ceramic clay” - they refuse to be molded by the hand of the Potter, and thus, they will be broken and shattered into pieces. 

Actually, that doesn't quite work, because the whole image - gold, silver, bronze, iron, AND CLAY are blown away, like the "chaff of the summer threshingfloors!"

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Verses 2:41-43 discuss the results of the Stone striking the feet. Now, we find a “divided” kingdom which will become papal Rome. This kingdom will be composed of “partly clay and partly iron” - in that order! Now, the clay has taken a superior position that of the iron. Meaning, this growing Jewish/Christian church (which could only come about due the Stone breaking apart the two elements in the feet), would be dominated by Christians over pagans within the still alive pagan Rome kingdom. 
 

Then, Daniel starts to offer a few comparisons of this “divided” kingdom composed of clay and iron- in that order, to the kingdom in verse 33 (pagan Rome) composed of iron and clay- in that order. 
 

These few verses reveals the 4th kingdom before and after the Cross ((Stone striking the feet). Pagan Rome will eventually be slain and its body destroyed (7:11), will be succeeded by papal Rome and headed by the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 (papacy). 
 

And notice in 2:41, during this particular comparison- this “divided” kingdom (come to be known as papal Rome), will STILL  have the “strength of iron” within it. Meaning, although this papal Roman kingdom will CLAIM to be a “spiritual” kingdom, they will have at their disposal and USE in great measure the iron or the military like powers / strength of pagan Rome. They are not a “passive” or “spiritual” kingdom as they claim, but will resort to military powers, murder, torture, etc. against ALL who would not worship this new church and the pope. They would be forced to accept the pagan practices brought into THEIR church and accept their the pope was god on earth, his infallibility, his ability to forgive sin, on and on !

But at His second coming (2:35), some 2000 years later, He will crush ALL 5 ELEMENTS to be found no more. 
 

This is just a part from my book - new interpretations of the book of Daniel. 

Again, the whole image - gold, silver, bronze, iron, AND CLAY are blown away, like the "chaff of the summer threshingfloors!" I don't see that happening to the children of Israel, who will be the PRIMARY subjects of God's KINGDOM through His Messiah, Yeeshuwa`.

[Charlie744]

40 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Charlie.

Thank you. I always try to keep it about the subject and the proofs and never about the people who make statments and conclusions.

I agree.

This makes good, historic sense.

Here, I'm not so sure.

First, let's consider HOW the information was related to Daniel:

Daniel 2:19-23 (KJV)

19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven. 20 Daniel answered and said,

"Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: 21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: 22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what [is] in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him. 23 I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast [now] made known unto us the king's matter."

Nevukhadnetsar was given a dream, but Daniel had a "night vision!" This was MORE than just a dream; God REVEALED what was going to happen to Daniel. So, when we read Daniel's words to the king, we see this: First, Daniel explains to the king just how God had revealed to him the information that he needed:

Daniel 2:24-30 (KJV)

24 Therefore Daniel went in unto Arioch, whom the king had ordained to destroy the wise [men] of Babylon: he went and said thus unto him;

"Destroy not the wise [men] of Babylon: bring me in before the king, and I will shew unto the king the interpretation."

25 Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste, and said thus unto him,

"I have found a man of the captives of Judah, that will make known unto the king the interpretation."

26 The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name [was] Belteshazzar,

"Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?"

27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said,

"The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise [men], the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king; 28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; 29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came [into thy mind] upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass. 30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for [any] wisdom that I have more than any living, but for [their] sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart."

Then, he got down to the "nitty-gritty":

Daniel 2:31-45 (KJV)

31 "Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness [was] excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof [was] terrible. 32 This image's head [was] of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

36 "This [is] the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

37 "Thou, O king, [art] a king of kings (an emperor): for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou [art] this head of gold. (NOTICE: Not "his kingdom was the head, but HE was the head! In the KJV, "thee's" and "thou's" are singular; "you's" and "ye's" are plural.)

39 "And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all [things]: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44 And in the days of THESE KINGS shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream [is] certain, and the interpretation thereof sure."

Finally, the results were recalled:

Daniel 2:46-49 (KJV)

46 Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped (b0wed before) Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him. 47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said,

"Of a truth [it is], that your God [is] a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret."

48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise [men] of Babylon. 49 Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel [sat] in the gate of the king.

So, I see a recognizable separation between the legs and the feet. In fact, since the trunk consisted of the belly and the thighs, it doesn't leave too much for the legs if part of the legs is understood as part of the feet.

Please! Don't use that OVERUSED, UNDER-EXPLAINED, MISUNDERSTOOD word "spiritual!" It's nothing but religious "FLUFF," and it has NO SIGNIFICANCE to this image!

Sorry if that word doesn’t sit well with you, but it was selected to mean the interpretations in Daniel (today’s accepted interpretations) are based on a “historical” approach. Everyone, whether you are on either side of the two main camps seem to determine the accuracy and strength of their interpretations are based on how close the actors and events in Daniel’s verses match to our historical records. A perfect example of this is in chapter 11, which most conclude it must have been written AFTER the fact because it is so accurate to our history books. However, there is not ONE verse or even ONE word after 11:4 that speaks to the time prior to the Messiah. 
 So, by using the  word “spiritual” here, I  am saying there is a non-physical or not historical in addition to the obvious secular meaning. 
 

The book of Daniel is a messianic prophecy. Its goal is to reveal the coming of the Messiah and and present His plan of salvation. 
 It is not a history book or lesson and His message is being told THROUGH these 4 kingdoms, and the actors and events that have a relationship with His people as they travel through these 4 kingdoms. 
The secular events and actors are fairly understood. There should not be a mystery to any if the 4 kingdoms or their kings. The major issues concerning “today’s accepted interpretations” come when the historical events found in the earlier chapters of Daniel are not so recognizable anymore, yet interpreters continue to try and match them to our history books.

But the entire book of Daniel is a prophetic book- chapter 1 to 12. Chapter 2 is one, if not the most important because it to provide the secular structure or framework for the rest of the chapters but also incorporate the “spiritual” or prophetic messages from God about His plan of salvation. I have not read the non-secular interpretations of Daniel 2, only the unpacking of the metal man image. Everyone focuses on interpreting this image but ignores the underlying and beginning of His prophetic message of salvation. In chapter 2, He is setting up both structures- the one we can easily find in our history books, but the other- the most important messages are not interpreted. The metal man image and the rest of the wonderful stories in Daniel have a deep meaning to His plan of salvation. 
The Dream Sequence (big picture) and the Interpretation Sequence of verses will be found throughout most of the chapters in Daniel. Those chapters are not a recording of chronological events, but follow this method of presentation. 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

I don't. I believe the mixture of iron and clay is more a mixture of the RULERSHIP of the nation, a mixture of Roman emperors and the Roman Senate.

The Messiah came at the perfect time/ on the first day of the 70th week to complete the restoration of Jerusalem and to fulfill His mission within the set aside final week. Only He could restore the presence of God in the Sanctuary- He symbolized the taken away of the first piece of furniture (Ark) by Jeremiah before the Babylonians came. All the pieces of the destruction of Jerusalem was restored during the 483 years (by the end of the 69th week) in reverse order to when they were taken. Consequently, the Ark, in the form of the Messiah would be the final piece to be restored. 
 

But He did not come as the Jews expected- a conquering king that would break or destroy pagan Rome in a military like manner. He would break away those pieces within their kingdom that were symbolically held at the bottom of their kingdom (feet). The Romans thought Israel to generally be a horrible place to be .. a perfect symbol for placing Israel within their kingdom. 
 

The Jews up to this time failed to teach and preach the One true God to the world. Thst was their mission. But they kept Him to themselves. Within His plan of salvation for ALL mankind (plan B if you will). By way of the cross, ALL people will or can have access to God through the Messiah and the teachings from His Holy Spirit. 
 

But He would still set up His earthly church by breaking His people (symbolically) out from the feet (control) of pagan Rome. The cross would break apart those Jews within their system and held within the control of pagan Rome. 
Symbolically, the feet were covered over by the iron and ceramic clay appearing as a hardened outer layer. Although iron and clay will never come together, they would appear to form this hardened outer cover- only God could break it apart in a non-military or physical manner- He did not come to destroy but to divide

This is not about power struggles within pagan Rome- again, the book of Daniel is not a history book. Chapter 2 reveals the 4 kingdom periods and those events from Babylon to papal Rome. Most of the chapters in Daniel focus on the 4th kingdom and the events after the Cross (not the chapters 3,4,5,6 that are happening in Babylon).

40 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

If they were the clay "entirely encased" within the iron, then how could one see that they consisted of both iron and clay?

This is all symbolic and one can imagine the feet were covered over on a partly iron and partly clay layer. 
 

 

40 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Actually, Daniel referred to it as a "miry clay." (See verse 43.)

Actually, that doesn't quite work, because the whole image - gold, silver, bronze, iron, AND CLAY are blown away, like the "chaff of the summer threshingfloors!"

No. Verse 2:34 speaks of the “dividing” of the kingdom by the breaking apart of the two elements in the feet ONLY- the iron and the clay. He did not come to destroy but to divide. 
 

Verse 2:35 however reveals the time of the end, His second coming, when He will crush and destroy the 5 elements to be found no more. 
 

Notice that the “threshing floor” image is found after 2:35, not 2:34. Also notice that after 2:35, God now reveals EACH of the 5 elements separately. Also, notice that the clay (ceramic) is now found in the middle of the 5 listed elements. These are all reflecting the end time harvest / threshing floor scene .

After the cross, everyone will now have access to God on an individual and personal level. Each had a choice to be “potter’s clay” or “ceramic” clay. 
Symbolically, the threshing floor will not be constructed of stone or hardened earth as it was in the time of the Messiah. Now, the ceramic clay will be positioned on top of the symbolic iron and brass (two hardest metals in the metal man image) and crushed together and thrown into the wind. 

 

40 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Again, the whole image - gold, silver, bronze, iron, AND CLAY are blown away, like the "chaff of the summer threshingfloors!" I don't see that happening to the children of Israel, who will be the PRIMARY subjects of God's KINGDOM through His Messiah, Yeeshuwa`.

Once again, the clay in this 2:35 harvest scene represents only the “ceramic clay” - those that still have rejected the Messiah as their Lord and Savior.