Rev 16:18 suggests the earth is much older than Adam/Eve

[Spock]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:49 AM, FreeGrace said:

I also believe that all angels were created way before Adam was created.  As to age, God created Adam as a mature male, since God created him fully functional to carry on the duties that God assigned him.  But we can't assign age at his creation.

The Bible says Adam lived 930 years.  I believe that was dated from his fall when the Lord warned, "in the day that you eat of it, DYING, you shall die".

That is what the literal Hebrew says.  The Lord spoke of 2 deaths on that day.  The DYING refers to physical death, which is a process over time.  

Adam did not physically die on that day.  What did die was his human spirit, which Jesus told the woman at the well one must have a human spirit with which to worship God.  John 4:24

So, because Adam died spiritually on that day, and EVERY baby is born with a dead human spirit, every human being NEEDS to be born AGAIN, spiritually.

So, if we can calculate the exact date Adam died, we will know the year in which he sinned.

Greetings again FG,

I agree with much you said here, but when you said the angels were created “way before Adam”, I wonder if it is possible God created them BEFORE the 6 days of creation?  And I wonder if this verse applies as to when He made the Angels?

Exodus 20:11 (ESV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Thinking out loud with you….let me know your thoughts.- S

[Spock]

On 2/19/2024 at 7:02 PM, FreeGrace said:

We know from Eek 28 that Satan was "blameless in his ways from the day he was created until wickedness was found in you".  v.15

And v.13 notes he was in "Eden, the garden of God".  However, v.12 says that he was "the model of perfection".  Since the first appearance of Satan in Genesis is as a deceiver, it would seem that before he had access to earth and the garden before God created Adam/woman.  Yet, Gen 1:2 is clear enough for those who are objective and recognize how certain words in v.2 are used elsewhere that something did happen that reduced the earth to a wasteland, so God restored it for man.

I’m thinking Satan deceived Eve around 33 years after Adam and Eve were created….so yeah, I’m sure he was in the Garden sometime in that 33 year period. 
 

Ezekiel 28:14-15 (ESV) 14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you.

me: Satan was an anointed cherub…he was blameless UNTIL pride grabbed hold of him….I’m thinking this occurred somewhere between creation week to about 33 years later…. what I believe to be the approximate time of the fall of man.

[FreeGrace]

47 minutes ago, Spock said:

Greetings again FG,

I agree with much you said here, but when you said the angels were created “way before Adam”, I wonder if it is possible God created them BEFORE the 6 days of creation?

Yes, I believe angels were created way before Adam.  And I also believe that the "6 days" were about restoration, given what v.2 actually says.

47 minutes ago, Spock said:

 And I wonder if this verse applies as to when He made the Angels?

Exodus 20:11 (ESV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Thinking out loud with you….let me know your thoughts.- S

Gen 1:1 says God created (bara) the heavens and earth.  Ex 20:11 says "the Lord made (asah) heaven and earth".

Different words, with different meanings.

Bara means to create out of nothing, and Psa 33:6,9 says God spoke everything into existence.  So, God spoke, and things appeared.

Asah means to make, form, create, out of existing materials.  So Ex 20:11 supports a restoration for the 6 days.

[FreeGrace]

40 minutes ago, Spock said:

I’m thinking Satan deceived Eve around 33 years after Adam and Eve were created….so yeah, I’m sure he was in the Garden sometime in that 33 year period.

I hadn't heard about 33 years.  There seems to be much disagreement as to when A&E sinned after they were created.  I've heard things like, "by the afternoon of their creation" to "thousands of years after their creation".  I don't know how anyone can know the time span between creation and their fall.

The Bible says Adam died at 930 years.  I believe those are the years after he sinned, since his body began to age when he sinned.  Until he sinned, he could have lived forever, and time would be irrelevant.

40 minutes ago, Spock said:

 Ezekiel 28:14-15 (ESV) 14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you.

me: Satan was an anointed cherub…he was blameless UNTIL pride grabbed hold of him….I’m thinking this occurred somewhere between creation week to about 33 years later…. what I believe to be the approximate time of the fall of man.

How do you figure 33 years later?  

[Spock]

30 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I hadn't heard about 33 years.  There seems to be much disagreement as to when A&E sinned after they were created.  I've heard things like, "by the afternoon of their creation" to "thousands of years after their creation".  I don't know how anyone can know the time span between creation and their fall.

The Bible says Adam died at 930 years.  I believe those are the years after he sinned, since his body began to age when he sinned.  Until he sinned, he could have lived forever, and time would be irrelevant.

How do you figure 33 years later?  

I believe God has a 7000 year (7 days) timetable for man before he ushers in the new heavens and new earth. Of course, the last 1000 years (1 day) is the Millennial reign of Christ. 
 

The first 6000 years (6 days) before the Sabbath Day of rest will be determined from the Fall of man to the return of Christ…the 2nd coming, not the rapture.

Assuming the 2nd coming is 2032, then subtract 6000 years to determine an approximate date of the fall of man….note, this is not the creation date. I don’t believe time began at creation week…I think it began at the fall. 
 

6000-2032=3968 +1 (add a year going from AD to BC)=3969 BC

James Ussher’s book, held in high esteem by many, shows creation to be around 4004 BC.  Thus, the fall of man would be around 35 years after creation.  Of course these numbers are approximates, so don’t hold me to them exactly as written. 
 

4004-3969=35
 

Sidenote…I originally used 33 years when I thought the 2nd coming might be 2030. I don’t think that now. Now, I’m leaning toward 2032 or 2033. Cheers……S

Edited February 21 by Spock

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

I believe God has a 7000 year (7 days) timetable for man before he ushers in the new heavens and new earth. Of course, the last 1000 years (1 day) is the Millennial reign of Christ. 

Agree!!

1 hour ago, Spock said:

The first 6000 years (6 days) before the Sabbath Day of rest will be determined from the Fall of man to the return of Christ…the 2nd coming, not the rapture.

Agree!!

1 hour ago, Spock said:

Assuming the 2nd coming is 2032, then subtract 6000 years to determine an approximate date of the fall of man….note, this is not the creation date. I don’t believe time began at creation week…I think it began at the fall.

Why assume 2032?  How do you get that?

1 hour ago, Spock said:

6000-2032=3968 +1 (add a year going from AD to BC)=3969 BC

James Ussher’s book, held in high esteem by many, shows creation to be around 4004 BC.  Thus, the fall of man would be around 35 years after creation.  Of course these numbers are approximates, so don’t hold me to them exactly as written.

I'm wondering how to determine Adam's fall.

1 hour ago, Spock said:

4004-3969=35

Sidenote…I originally used 33 years when I thought the 2nd coming might be 2030. I don’t think that now. Now, I’m leaning toward 2032 or 2033. Cheers……S

Not to throw a wrench into the works, but....  2 Thess 2:5-8

Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

I was brought up believing in a pretrib rapture, and the red words referred to the Holy Spirit.  Since that isn't rational, it appears much more likely the red words refer to a moral government that keeps evil at bay (sort of).

With the current administration, which is evil, it seems the USA, being the most current moral government, has  lost its position.  So what's left?  The revealing of the "lawless one", or the beast (a/c).

So, seems to me the Trib is just about upon us, if not already here.

Go to Rev 6 and the 4 horsemen.  Seems one could argue that the first 3 horses have already been loosened.  

[Spock]

14 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Agree!!

Agree!!

Why assume 2032?  How do you get that?

 

 

why the 2nd coming in 2032 or 2033? 

Hosea 5:15 (ESV) I will return again to my place, until they acknowledge their guilt and seek my face, and in their distress earnestly seek me.
Hosea 6:1-3 (ESV) 1 “Come, let us return to the LORD; for he has torn us, that he may heal us; he has struck us down, and he will bind us up. 2 After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him. 3 Let us know; let us press on to know the LORD; his going out is sure as the dawn; he will come to us as the showers, as the spring rains that water the earth.”

Me: the above passage is my #1 go to passage from the Holy Bible to show 2032 or 2033….

 

Daniel 9:24-27 I use to support a  crucifixion year for 32 AD

32 AD + 2000 years (2 days)=2032 AD

-S

Edited February 21 by Spock

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

 

why the 2nd coming in 2032 or 2033? 

Hosea 5:15 (ESV) I will return again to my place, until they acknowledge their guilt and seek my face, and in their distress earnestly seek me.
Hosea 6:1-3 (ESV) 1 “Come, let us return to the LORD; for he has torn us, that he may heal us; he has struck us down, and he will bind us up. 2 After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him. 3 Let us know; let us press on to know the LORD; his going out is sure as the dawn; he will come to us as the showers, as the spring rains that water the earth.”

Me: the above passage is my #1 go to passage from the Holy Bible to show 2032 or 2033….

Daniel 9:24-27 I use to support a  crucifixion year for 32 AD

32 AD + 2000 years (2 days)=2032 AD

-S

OK.  Thanks.  What do you think of 2 Thess 2:6 and 7?  

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

 

why the 2nd coming in 2032 or 2033? 

Hosea 5:15 (ESV) I will return again to my place, until they acknowledge their guilt and seek my face, and in their distress earnestly seek me.
Hosea 6:1-3 (ESV) 1 “Come, let us return to the LORD; for he has torn us, that he may heal us; he has struck us down, and he will bind us up. 2 After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him. 3 Let us know; let us press on to know the LORD; his going out is sure as the dawn; he will come to us as the showers, as the spring rains that water the earth.”

Me: the above passage is my #1 go to passage from the Holy Bible to show 2032 or 2033….

 

Daniel 9:24-27 I use to support a  crucifixion year for 32 AD

32 AD + 2000 years (2 days)=2032 AD

-S

Hi Spock,

Did you know that God measures His timing by 30 days & 360 days for a year. That of course can then be overlaid on the lunar or solar calendars. It is a constant and not subjected to leap years or differences in months.

[dad2]

On 12/10/2023 at 4:05 PM, FreeGrace said:

 

If Genesis 1 is the acccount of original creation, then why didn't John just say "since the creation of the earth"

 

 

Because man was only on earth since day 6. So if there was some shaking involved in separating the waters from land or whatever before that, it doesn't matter. The point is that the shaking in the end will be the greatest since man existed on earth. That includes the time when the continents separated quickly when there was likely a lot of shaking as well. It includes all the earthquakes in history as well as the ones in the tribulation up to that time. This has zero do do with some imaginary ages before day 6.