The Millennium.

[Gabriel80]

I am very grateful that, Marylin, created this thread... the subject is exactly why I joined this forum and was about to post something similar.

Before I interject and possibly de-rail the thread... I had a specific question regarding the Lord ruling the nations, in the millennium, "like a rod of iron."

I can start a new thread if necessary... just tell me so.

Anyway, my question(s) revolve around "how" the nations are populated and how does the appearance of sin continue into this age of the future earth?

I am by no means an end-times expert and am just beginning to study intently.  But I am struggling with The Millennium for sure.  Especially since Revelation/ Daniel/ Isaiah/ Jeremiah all seem to show the 2nd coming as Lord Jesus laying waste to any and all who did not believe in his name that were alive on earth during this time.

 

Many thanks!

 

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C.

On 1/23/2024 at 6:56 PM, Marilyn C said:

1. Do you see the Body of Christ on earth in the millennium? (Scriptures please)

"The Body of Christ" IS "the Body of the MESSIAH!" That's what "Christ" means! The word "Christ" is a shortened form of the Greek word "G5547 Χριστός" transliterated as "Christos." It means "an anointed one." It is the Greek equivalent of "H4899 מָשִׁיחַ" transliterated as "Maashiyach." It also means "an anointed one," and it is also transliterated as "Messiah" and through transliteration into Greek first (G3323 Μεσσίας), "Messias."

First, there were MANY "christs!" Not "false christs" but REAL "christs" because there were many, REAL "messiahs!" The first one so anointed was Aharown ("Aaron"), the brother of Mosheh ("Moses") and first high priest of Israel. All of the priests used for God's service were so anointed with the Holy Anointing Oil found in Exodus 30:22-33.

Exodus 30:30 (KJV)

30 "And thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office."

When Sha'uwl was first anointed to be king by Shmuw'eel ("Samuel"), he, too, was being anointed to serve God in the capacity of Israel's King:

1 Samuel 10:1 (KJV)

1 Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, 

"Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?"

David, too, was so anointed by Shmuw'eel:

1 Samuel 16:13 (KJV)

13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

All the kings of Yhudah ("Judah") were so anointed until the day that they were carried off to Bavel ("Babylon").

But, David was also given a promise from YHWH 'Elohiym:

2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet,

"See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains!"

3 And Nathan said to the king,

"Go, do all that [is] in thine heart; for the LORD [is] with thee."

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying,

5 "Go and tell my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in [any] house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all [the places] wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?' "'

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great [men] that [are] in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges [to be] over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies."

"'Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.

"'"12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit (is twisted into) iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."'"

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

Contrary to popular belief, this was NOT about Shlomoh ("Solomon")! Shlomoh was anointed king BEFORE David died! (See 1 Kings 1:5-2:12.) This "seed" of David came AFTER David died: "when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed AFTER THEE, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom."

That this was beyond Shlomoh is seen in Jeremiah when he prophesied against the king, the direct, kingly line from Shlomoh, and his line:

Jeremiah 36:20-32 (KJV)

20 And they went in to the king into the court, but they laid up the roll in the chamber of Elishama the scribe, and told all the words in the ears of the king. 21 So the king sent Jehudi to fetch the roll: and he took it out of Elishama the scribe's chamber. And Jehudi read it in the ears of the king, and in the ears of all the princes which stood beside the king. 22 Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month (approx. January): and [there was a fire] on the hearth burning before him. 23 And it came to pass, [that] when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast [it] into the fire that [was] on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that [was] on the hearth. 24 Yet they were not afraid, nor rent their garments, [neither] the king, nor any of his servants that heard all these words. 25 Nevertheless Elnathan and Delaiah and Gemariah had made intercession to the king that he would not burn the roll: but he would not hear them. 26 But the king commanded Jerahmeel the son of Hammelech, and Seraiah the son of Azriel, and Shelemiah the son of Abdeel, to take Baruch the scribe and Jeremiah the prophet: but the LORD hid them.

27 Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying,

28 "Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned. 29 And thou shalt say to Jehoiakim king of Judah,

"'Thus saith the LORD;

"'"Thou hast burned this roll, saying, 'Why hast thou written therein, saying, "The king of Babylon shall certainly come and destroy this land, and shall cause to cease from thence man and beast?"'" 30 Therefore thus saith the LORD of Jehoiakim king of Judah; HE SHALL HAVE NONE TO SIT UPON THE THRONE OF DAVID: and his dead body shall be cast out in the day to the heat, and in the night to the frost. 31 And I WILL PUNISH HIM AND HIS SEED AND HIS SERVANTS FOR THEIR INIQUITY; AND I WILL BRING UPON THEM, AND UPON THE INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM, AND UPON THE MEN OF JUDAH, all the evil that I have pronounced against them!"'";

but they hearkened not.

32 Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.

So, the line of Shlomoh ("Solomon") was CURSED! Yoseef ("Joseph") the husband of Miryam ("Mary") was of this lineage. This is why he could NOT be the father of Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus")! BUT, Miryam was from a different line of David! Her lineage is found in Luke 3, and she came from Natan ("Nathan") the son of David, and this was predicted by Zkharyahuw ("Zechariah") in Zechariah 12.

Then, we have the prediction by GaVriy'eel ("Gabriel") to Miryam:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name 'JESUS.' 32 He shall be great, and shall be called 'the Son of the Highest': and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

This is a confirmation of the Davidic Covenant in 2 Samuel 7 (and 1 Chronicles 17)!

Yeeshuwa` said in the "Olivet Discourse,"

Matthew 25:31 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory (brightness), and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory (brightness):"

So, He shall reign AFTER His return upon "the throne of His father David, and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of His kingdom there shall be no end!"

Now, if that is where the CHRIST is reigning, why would the BODY of Christ be anywhere else?! Didn't He say,

John 14:1-3 (KJV)

1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also."

People ASSUME He meant that He would take them to "His Father's house," BUT HE NEVER SAID THAT! READ BACK THROUGH THESE VERSES! CHECK THE GREEK! All He said was that He would come again, and claim them so they could be with Him wherever He will go! However, HE JUST GOT BACK TO EARTH! Why would He leave it?! We rule and reign WITH HIM for that 1,000 years (and beyond)!

Revelation 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead (the Unjust) lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

Revelation 22:3-5

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

What will the Messiah be doing during that 1,000 years? Well, according to "Παῦλος"  שָׁאוּל, Sha'uwl "Paulos" ("Paul"),

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits; [This was in the First Century A.D.]
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [This is before the Millennium, prior to Revelation 20.] 24
(2) Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. [This is after the Millennium in Revelation 21.]

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. [This corresponds to the end of Revelation 20, in verse 14 when "death and hell are cast into the lake of fire."] 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. (But when he saith "all things are put under [him," it is] manifest that "he" is excepted, which did "put all things under him.") 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. [This corresponds to the New Earth, its New Sky, and the New Jerusalem's descent in Revelation 21 and 22.]

On 1/23/2024 at 6:56 PM, Marilyn C said:

2. Do you see `Edenic` conditions for the millennium? (Scriptures please)

Only within His Kingdom, in the Land of Israel. 

Ezekiel 47:1-12 (KJV)

1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house [stood toward] the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south [side] of the altar. 2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side. 3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters [were] to the ankles. 4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters [were] to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters [were] to the loins. 5 Afterward he measured a thousand; [and it was] a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over. 6 And he said unto me,

"Son of man, hast thou seen [this]?"

Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river. 7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river [were] very many trees on the one side and on the other. 8 Then said he unto me,

"These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: [which being] brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. 9 And it shall come to pass, [that] every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. 10 And it shall come to pass, [that] the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a [place] to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. 11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt. 12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine."

Clearly, the New Jerusalem would be MUCH bigger than the city seen in this prophecy. Therefore, this passage is NOT the same as that in Revelation 22.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn C.

"The Body of Christ" IS "the Body of the MESSIAH!" That's what "Christ" means! The word "Christ" is a shortened form of the Greek word "G5547 Χριστός" transliterated as "Christos." It means "an anointed one." It is the Greek equivalent of "H4899 מָשִׁיחַ" transliterated as "Maashiyach." It also means "an anointed one," and it is also transliterated as "Messiah" and through transliteration into Greek first (G3323 Μεσσίας), "Messias."

First, there were MANY "christs!" Not "false christs" but REAL "christs" because there were many, REAL "messiahs!" The first one so anointed was Aharown ("Aaron"), the brother of Mosheh ("Moses") and first high priest of Israel. All of the priests used for God's service were so anointed with the Holy Anointing Oil found in Exodus 30:22-33.

Exodus 30:30 (KJV)

30 "And thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office."

When Sha'uwl was first anointed to be king by Shmuw'eel ("Samuel"), he, too, was being anointed to serve God in the capacity of Israel's King:

1 Samuel 10:1 (KJV)

1 Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, 

"Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?"

David, too, was so anointed by Shmuw'eel:

1 Samuel 16:13 (KJV)

13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

All the kings of Yhudah ("Judah") were so anointed until the day that they were carried off to Bavel ("Babylon").

But, David was also given a promise from YHWH 'Elohiym:

2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet,

"See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains!"

3 And Nathan said to the king,

"Go, do all that [is] in thine heart; for the LORD [is] with thee."

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying,

5 "Go and tell my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in [any] house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all [the places] wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?' "'

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great [men] that [are] in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges [to be] over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies."

"'Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.

"'"12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit (is twisted into) iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."'"

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

Contrary to popular belief, this was NOT about Shlomoh ("Solomon")! Shlomoh was anointed king BEFORE David died! (See 1 Kings 1:5-2:12.) This "seed" of David came AFTER David died: "when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed AFTER THEE, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom."

That this was beyond Shlomoh is seen in Jeremiah when he prophesied against the king, the direct, kingly line from Shlomoh, and his line:

Jeremiah 36:20-32 (KJV)

20 And they went in to the king into the court, but they laid up the roll in the chamber of Elishama the scribe, and told all the words in the ears of the king. 21 So the king sent Jehudi to fetch the roll: and he took it out of Elishama the scribe's chamber. And Jehudi read it in the ears of the king, and in the ears of all the princes which stood beside the king. 22 Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month (approx. January): and [there was a fire] on the hearth burning before him. 23 And it came to pass, [that] when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast [it] into the fire that [was] on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that [was] on the hearth. 24 Yet they were not afraid, nor rent their garments, [neither] the king, nor any of his servants that heard all these words. 25 Nevertheless Elnathan and Delaiah and Gemariah had made intercession to the king that he would not burn the roll: but he would not hear them. 26 But the king commanded Jerahmeel the son of Hammelech, and Seraiah the son of Azriel, and Shelemiah the son of Abdeel, to take Baruch the scribe and Jeremiah the prophet: but the LORD hid them.

27 Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying,

28 "Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned. 29 And thou shalt say to Jehoiakim king of Judah,

"'Thus saith the LORD;

"'"Thou hast burned this roll, saying, 'Why hast thou written therein, saying, "The king of Babylon shall certainly come and destroy this land, and shall cause to cease from thence man and beast?"'" 30 Therefore thus saith the LORD of Jehoiakim king of Judah; HE SHALL HAVE NONE TO SIT UPON THE THRONE OF DAVID: and his dead body shall be cast out in the day to the heat, and in the night to the frost. 31 And I WILL PUNISH HIM AND HIS SEED AND HIS SERVANTS FOR THEIR INIQUITY; AND I WILL BRING UPON THEM, AND UPON THE INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM, AND UPON THE MEN OF JUDAH, all the evil that I have pronounced against them!"'";

but they hearkened not.

32 Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.

So, the line of Shlomoh ("Solomon") was CURSED! Yoseef ("Joseph") the husband of Miryam ("Mary") was of this lineage. This is why he could NOT be the father of Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus")! BUT, Miryam was from a different line of David! Her lineage is found in Luke 3, and she came from Natan ("Nathan") the son of David, and this was predicted by Zkharyahuw ("Zechariah") in Zechariah 12.

Then, we have the prediction by GaVriy'eel ("Gabriel") to Miryam:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name 'JESUS.' 32 He shall be great, and shall be called 'the Son of the Highest': and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

This is a confirmation of the Davidic Covenant in 2 Samuel 7 (and 1 Chronicles 17)!

Yeeshuwa` said in the "Olivet Discourse,"

Matthew 25:31 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory (brightness), and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory (brightness):"

So, He shall reign AFTER His return upon "the throne of His father David, and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of His kingdom there shall be no end!"

Now, if that is where the CHRIST is reigning, why would the BODY of Christ be anywhere else?! Didn't He say,

John 14:1-3 (KJV)

1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also."

People ASSUME He meant that He would take them to "His Father's house," BUT HE NEVER SAID THAT! READ BACK THROUGH THESE VERSES! CHECK THE GREEK! All He said was that He would come again, and claim them so they could be with Him wherever He will go! However, HE JUST GOT BACK TO EARTH! Why would He leave it?! We rule and reign WITH HIM for that 1,000 years (and beyond)!

Revelation 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead (the Unjust) lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

Revelation 22:3-5

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

What will the Messiah be doing during that 1,000 years? Well, according to "Παῦλος"  שָׁאוּל, Sha'uwl "Paulos" ("Paul"),

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits; [This was in the First Century A.D.]
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [This is before the Millennium, prior to Revelation 20.] 24
(2) Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. [This is after the Millennium in Revelation 21.]

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. [This corresponds to the end of Revelation 20, in verse 14 when "death and hell are cast into the lake of fire."] 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. (But when he saith "all things are put under [him," it is] manifest that "he" is excepted, which did "put all things under him.") 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. [This corresponds to the New Earth, its New Sky, and the New Jerusalem's descent in Revelation 21 and 22.]

Only within His Kingdom, in the Land of Israel. 

Ezekiel 47:1-12 (KJV)

1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house [stood toward] the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south [side] of the altar. 2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side. 3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters [were] to the ankles. 4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters [were] to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters [were] to the loins. 5 Afterward he measured a thousand; [and it was] a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over. 6 And he said unto me,

"Son of man, hast thou seen [this]?"

Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river. 7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river [were] very many trees on the one side and on the other. 8 Then said he unto me,

"These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: [which being] brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. 9 And it shall come to pass, [that] every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. 10 And it shall come to pass, [that] the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a [place] to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. 11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt. 12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine."

Clearly, the New Jerusalem would be MUCH bigger than the city seen in this prophecy. Therefore, this passage is NOT the same as that in Revelation 22.

Hi Retro,

You should write a book. (just being cheeky) You do seem to know a lot but it is too much for most to read. 

As to Q.2 I agree. Amazing, we agree for a change.

[Retrobyter]

18 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

You should write a book. (just being cheeky) You do seem to know a lot but it is too much for most to read. 

As to Q.2 I agree. Amazing, we agree for a change.

Shalom, Marilyn C.

LOL! Y'know, I've been trying to write a book on the New Jerusalem for DECADES, but it's like a wall of papier mache'! The task just seems to be too much to break through, although I know many others have done so.

You do see how the Messiah Yeeshuwa` (the Christ Jesus) fulfills the Davidic Covenant, though, right? That's what He was anointed to do! He is to be the King of Judah, and then the King of all Israel, and then the King of the world, as He subdues His enemies, one by one, throughout the Millennium. When His Kingdom has totally engulfed the world, then He gives that Empire to His Father, and He goes on reigning over Israel FOREVER and of His Kingdom there shall be NO END! This is why He is the MEDIATOR between God and men!

He doesn't reign over the Universe; His Father has that in control. He is to reign over the EARTH, and be His Father's Representative ("Messiah") HERE! But, knowing that there are still Gentiles to accept His Sacrifice for sin, there are still children of Israel who are blinded to His Authority, and God has not yet sent His Son back. In the meantime, He is still adding on more "rooms" in His Father's House, the New Jerusalem, for those who belong to Him. This city will land upon the New Earth, after He's already reigned for a Thousand Years upon this earth. We're still in the early stages of the "end times."

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The Father's House is never heaven. It was severally:
The Tabernacle of the wilderness
Solomon's Temple
Zerubbabel's Temple
Christ's Body
The Church

One could say that God dwells in heaven, but heaven is never called the Father's House. Ephesians 4 gives God's Throne "above all heavens". John 14 prophesies that our Lord Jesus would GO - then prepare a place for His disciples - and return - "that the disciples may be (future tense) where He (Jesus) was already (present tense). That is, Jesus was somewhere ALREADY and He wished for His disciples to be there too at a future date.

1... I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
...
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake (Jn 14:1–11).

And this Jesus did. He went to His death because the hindrance to His disciples was sin and sins. Then He rose from the dead and told Mary to tell the disciples that He was going to the Father, but had not yet been (Jn.20:17). That night He had been because they could touch Him. Then, by breathing the Holy Spirit into His disciples they were where Jesus was before - IN the father and the father IN them - and in this manner they became the House of God.

Hi Ad Hoc,

`The zeal for You house has eaten me up.` (Ps. 69: 9,  John 2: 17)

Heb. `bayith,` house in the greatest variety of applications - home, house, court, temple, palace....

The Father`s house is represented on earth and in the new Jerusalem & in the Body of Christ, however, the actual `house/temple/ sanctuary/dwellingplace` is in the third heaven.

`Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: we have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens. 

A Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.` (Heb. 8: 1 & 2) 

 

Gk. `naos` a dwelling place - Temple.

`Then the Temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.` (Rev. 11: 19)

 

Gk. mone` mansion, abode, dwelling. 

`In my Father`s house are many `dwellings`.....` (John 14: 1)

 

[Marilyn C]

1 minute ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn C.

LOL! Y'know, I've been trying to write a book on the New Jerusalem for DECADES, but it's like a wall of papier mache'! The task just seems to be too much to break through, although I know many others have done so.

You do see how the Messiah Yeeshuwa` (the Christ Jesus) fulfills the Davidic Covenant, though, right? That's what He was anointed to do! He is to be the King of Judah, and then the King of all Israel, and then the King of the world, as He subdues His enemies, one by one, throughout the Millennium. When His Kingdom has totally engulfed the world, then He gives that Empire to His Father, and He goes on reigning over Israel FOREVER and of His Kingdom there shall be NO END! This is why He is the MEDIATOR between God and men!

He doesn't reign over the Universe; His Father has that in control. He is to reign over the EARTH, and be His Father's Representative ("Messiah") HERE! But, knowing that there are still Gentiles to accept His Sacrifice for sin, there are still children of Israel who are blinded to His Authority, and God has not yet sent His Son back. In the meantime, He is still adding on more "rooms" in His Father's House, the New Jerusalem, for those who belong to Him. This city will land upon the New Earth, after He's already reigned for a Thousand Years upon this earth. We're still in the early stages of the "end times."

Hi Retro,

I do agree with your first two paragraphs. And would add that the Lord Jesus is also 

King of Glory, King of heaven, King of the Ages, and King of Kings.

So, what about the Father making His Son `far above all....in this age and in that which is to come.` (Eph. 1: 21)

And that certainly is NOT below where Lucifer had a throne or where Satan rules from now. 

Where is the scripture that says the Lord rules from the earth?

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Gabriel80 said:

I am very grateful that, Marylin, created this thread... the subject is exactly why I joined this forum and was about to post something similar.

Before I interject and possibly de-rail the thread... I had a specific question regarding the Lord ruling the nations, in the millennium, "like a rod of iron."

I can start a new thread if necessary... just tell me so.

Anyway, my question(s) revolve around "how" the nations are populated and how does the appearance of sin continue into this age of the future earth?

I am by no means an end-times expert and am just beginning to study intently.  But I am struggling with The Millennium for sure.  Especially since Revelation/ Daniel/ Isaiah/ Jeremiah all seem to show the 2nd coming as Lord Jesus laying waste to any and all who did not believe in his name that were alive on earth during this time.

 

Many thanks!

 

 

Hi Gabriel,

Glad you have joined the discussion. I have re- written the op to include other topics about the millennium. So all good there for you to ask and comment on what you have written. I`m sure the others will provide much detail as we go along.

The `nations` will actually be in tribal or families, as God`s word says. (Zech. 14: 17)

`And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.` (Zech. 14: 17)

In the tribulation billions of people will die, (as written in Revelation) and finally with the great earthquake `such a mighty and great earthquake as not occurred since men were on the earth,` (Rev. 16: 18)  civilization as we know it will be finished. Meaning oil refining, motorized transport, road and rail infrastructure, factories, food, drink and medical production, etc.

It will be an agricultural society. People will have to grow their own food and build shelters. They will work together -

`they will beat their swords into plwshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation (ethnic groups) neither shall they learn war any more.` (Micah 4: 3)

`Everyone shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree...` (Micah 4: 4)

`Along the banks of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail.

They will bear fruit every month because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food and their leaves for medicine.` (Ez. 47: 12)

Remember when the Lord Jesus come in great power and glory to deliver Israel and bring vengeance upon the rebellious, He will step onto the mount of Olives. It will split in two and out of it will flow rivers of living waters to cleanse the polluted rivers, streams and seas that happened in the tribulation. (Zech. 14: 4  Rev. 16: 3 & 4)

Even today we use the leaves of plants - eucalyptus, (for inhaling, treatment of sores etc) medowsweet, (as aspirin, relaxant) peppermint, (headaches, antiviral) and so on.

With such a healthy lifestyle, working outside in the fresh air, and being productive, everyone will benefit. Also, a representative will go up to Jerusalem to worship and learn the ways of the Lord. (Mich 4: 2) And that would include relating to others, working together, teaching children, looking after the elderly, etc all in family (& tribal groups).

Righteous leadership will also be taught so that leaders can walk in wisdom and understanding of God`s ways. 

Sin will still continue as the people going into the millennium are still human. They are the `sheep` group that looked after the Jews in the trib. There will be no Satan or demonic influences but man still has his sinful nature. However, as written above people will learn of God`s ways and many will seek to do what is right. 

The final lesson is shown that although God has given His righteous rulership through Israel over the nations for a thousand years, man`s sinful heart is still the same. God is just and has given man every opportunity to show that he could change but it is not possible. Thus, God is just to finish the world as it is and start anew with those who turned to Him throughout time. 

 

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Gabriel80 said:

 I had a specific question regarding the Lord ruling the nations, in the millennium, "like a rod of iron."

 

Hi again Gabriel, just a comment on the `rod of iron.`

`If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. ` (Zech. 14: 18 & 19)

If a group receives no rain, then there are no crops, or fresh water, and there is a famine which brings plagues and diseases. Thus, people will learn to obey the Lord or suffer the consequences.

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I hope I do not sound like I am preaching I am correct. It is only my current thoughts and opinions.

I agree King David will be 2^nd in command. I have no doubt there will be a government and hierarchy.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Revelation 19:14)

Armies, plural. I surmise we being in Heaven from the Resurrection/Rapture until Christ’s 2^nd coming, we are part of the heavenly host (Army), along with all the heavenly host (angels). I suspect as Christian soldiers we will accompany Jesus at His return. I suspect we will not return to Heaven, but stay on Earth, as it will be our eternal home.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Revelation 21:2) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (Revelation 21:3) [emphasis mine]

The new Jerusalem is coming “down” from Heaven, apparently for Jesus’s bride as the imagery suggests. Verse three strongly suggests where, where men are, the Earth.

As I alluded to before, I think much of the description may only apply to the area of the new Jerusalem.

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (Revelation 21:10)

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 65:25) [emphasis mine]

I get the impression the holy mountain is a small geographical area, maybe like the Garden of Eden was to the district and borders of Eden proper.

I have many questions concerning the precise location of the new Jerusalem. Will it be in a geocentric orbit because of its size and weight? Will it be physically touching the earth? There will be mortals on the Earth at this time also. It makes more sense that the NJ will be settled on the ground for entrance I would think.

The NJ is 1,400-1,500 miles high, what about oxygen, gravity, etc? With the new Earth's atmosphere be greatly expanded?

Hi Dennis,

You may like to consider that you are assuming and that is not scriptural.

There are no two kings on the earth at the same time - King Jesus ad King David. A king is supreme. 

The Lord is the commander of the angelic hosts throughout the centuries. Look at Joshua who bowed before Him. (Joshus 5: 13 - 15) Then when Elijah prayed for the servant`s eyes to be opened to see the chariot army of the Lord. (2 Kings 6: 17)

King David spoke of the chariots of God, the angelic army. (Ps. 68: 17) And Jesus said that He could call on 12 legions of angels, (Matt. 26: 53) to provide for Himself. 

Jesus also told us that His angelic army would come with Him at the end of the trib.

 `they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..`                             (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.`  (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

Time for tea so will comment on the rest tomorrow. Hope you can look into these thoughts bro.

 

 

 

 

[Retrobyter]

1 minute ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

I do agree with your first two paragraphs. And would add that the Lord Jesus is also 

King of Glory, King of heaven, King of the Ages, and King of Kings.

So, what about the Father making His Son `far above all....in this age and in that which is to come.` (Eph. 1: 21)

And that certainly is NOT below where Lucifer had a throne or where Satan rules from now. 

Where is the scripture that says the Lord rules from the earth?

Shalom, Marilyn.

King of Glory ("Doxa") means "King of BRIGHTNESS!" He SHINES with the brightness of His Father! And, He SHINES more brightly than Mosheh's face shone after coming down from Mt. Sinai! (Rev. 1:13-16). He is also called "the SUN of Righteousness!" (Mal. 4:2). We can also read of His transfiguration in the vision of His future GLORY (BRIGHTNESS) shown to His disciples. (Matt. 17; Mark 9; Luke 9).

Yeeshuwa` is never called "the King of Heaven" in the Scriptures. He is the King FROM heaven; that is, the King FROM the sky, since that is how He will return, just as Acts 1:7-9 says. That He will reign after He comes from the sky, is seen in His prophecies and prophetic parables (Matthew 13:40-43; 25:31, and Luke 19:11-15).

Yeeshuwa` is also not the King of the Ages; that title belongs to His Father, even though He IS the Word who was WITH God and who WAS God, and was made FLESH! Once having been "made FLESH," He is no longer called "God"; He is "the SON of God," which also is part of the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant!

Yeeshuwa` SHALL be the King of Kings, a title that means "World Emperor," just as it did for Nebuchadnezzar and Artaxerxes in the Scriptures. It is LITERALLY the King of all other kings! However, when that is accomplished, "He shall be subject unto His Father, that God, His Father, may be all in all!"

Luke 4:16-21 (KJV)

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord."

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21And he began to say unto them,

"This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

Isaiah 61:1-11 (KJV)

1 "The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. 4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations. 5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien [shall be] your plowmen and your vinedressers. 6 But ye shall be named 'the Priests of the LORD': [men] shall call you 'the Ministers of our God': ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. 7 For your shame [ye shall have] double; and [for] confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them."

8 "For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. 9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they [are] the seed [which] the LORD hath blessed."

10 "I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh [himself] with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth [herself] with her jewels. 11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations."

Zechariah 14:16-19 (KJV)

16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles (or "booths"; SUKKOT). 17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Ezekiel 45:15-17, 21-25 (KJV)

15 "And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them," saith the Lord GOD. 16 "All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel. 17 And it shall be the prince's part [to give] burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

...

21 In the first [month], in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten. 22 And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock [for] a sin offering. 23 And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the LORD, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily [for] a sin offering. 24 And he shall prepare a meat offering of an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and an hin of oil for an ephah. 25 In the seventh [month], in the fifteenth day of the month, shall he do the like in the feast of the seven days, according to the sin offering, according to the burnt offering, and according to the meat offering, and according to the oil.

This "prince" is Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God.

Psalm 89:3-4, 15-29, 35-37 (KJV)

3 "I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, 4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations." Selah.

...

15 Blessed [is] the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance. 16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted. 17 For thou [art] the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted. 18 For the LORD [is] our defence; and the Holy One of Israel [is] our king. 19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst,

"I have laid help upon [one that is] mighty; I have exalted [one] chosen out of the people. 20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: 21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy [shall be] with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me,

"'Thou [art] my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.'

27 "Also I will make him [my] firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make [to endure] for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

...

35 "Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. 36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. 37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and [as] a faithful witness in heaven." Selah. 

"Heaven," btw, is not "God's abode." There's no place in all the UNIVERSE where God is NOT! "Heaven" is the Hebrew word "shaamayim" and the Greek word "ouranos," both referring to this planet's atmosphere, in which we see birds fly, and we see the clouds and weather (Matt. 16:1-4), and through which we see the things ABOVE the sky. The place where the stars and the planets are is called "the heaven of heavens" in the OT, and the "EPouranios" in the Greek of the NT, an adjective that refers to "ABOVE the sky." That which is called "Heaven," as described by "gates of pearl and streets of gold," is actually the New Jerusalem! And, it is currently the "Jerusalem above-the-sky" (Ἰερουσαλὴμ ἐπουρανίῳ in Heb. 12:22).