The Millennium.

[NConly]

7 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Well, you just destroyed my thoughts on steak dinners with all the trimmings 

There will be animal sacrifice by the Jews in the millennium. Jesus and the two angels ate flesh with Abraham:

And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat. (Genesis 18:8)

The food of angels is manna, but we know they can and have eaten other things. Eating seems more of a pleasure than a necessity at the wedding feast. Having a glorified body like Jesus, I am unsure if nutrition is required to sustain our bodies.

What do you think?

I may be wrong and we were discussing thoughts not scripture.

In Matt 23:

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

I see Israel having to accept Jesus and the new Covenant. Jesus has no old law in the new covenant as I see it so I do not see animal sacrifices.

 

[Dennis1209]

8 hours ago, Gabriel80 said:

 

And a question for you, Dennis, if you would indulge me...

 

Regarding the indwelling of the Holy Spirit after the Rapture... I have heard this but I believe Jesus said he would be with us (in spirit) until the end?

Would a new believer during the Tribulation and Day of the Lord not have that surety?  If not... that would be tooooough to manage...I couldn't imagine.

 

Thank you.

 

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (Matthew 24:13) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)  [emphasis added]

First, let me say many fine men of God, theologians, and scholars have differing views of scripture, especially the book of Revelation. I am a simple Bible student with my own view, but that is not necessarily correct.

A real eye-opener for me in understanding prophecy and scripture much better was studying the differences between the eight kingdoms and two different gospels. John the Baptist prepared the way for the Messiah, preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Shortly after it was evident that He and His message would be rejected, Jesus switched to another Gospel, the Gospel of Grace, not the kingdom of heaven.

It would be much too long to detail the differences between the kingdoms, and how it affects saving faith. From the beginning, faith has always been the standard to please God. Speaking of Abraham:

And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. (Genesis 15:6)

The age of Grace is over at the harpazo; the Holy Spirit will be removed and not indwell believers anymore. Old Testament believers did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, neither will those after the Rapture of the church.

As I mentioned, the key to better understanding is having a handle on the different kingdoms, what they are, and how and when they apply.

I seldom recommend any commentaries or books. The one I am going to recommend opened my understanding of some things that were a mystery to me I did not understand. It is not expensive.

Eight Kingdoms: The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven (BOOK) - Michael Pearl (nogreaterjoy.org)

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, NConly said:

I see Israel having to accept Jesus and the new Covenant. Jesus has no old law in the new covenant as I see it so I do not see animal sacrifices.

There will be ceremonial sacrifices by the Jews in the millennium. My attachment explains it well rather than explaining it in my own words.

Will there be animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom? | GotQuestions.org

[FJK]

35 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

There will be ceremonial sacrifices by the Jews in the millennium. My attachment explains it well rather than explaining it in my own words.

Will there be animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom? | GotQuestions.org

I see the restoration of the sacrifices as a move by the Jews (Israel) to return to God as their sovereign by obeying him and his original orders for atonement instead of their current efforts to identify themselves as Jews by ritual alone which they seem to think they can change as they will according to the circumstances of the world around them.

It is a move they must make before they will be able to truly accept the Messiah as their savior.

 

(Admittedly not well or fully stated, but I think it conveys the thoughts I have.)

[AdHoc]

 

 

On 1/26/2024 at 6:09 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc,

`The zeal for You house has eaten me up.` (Ps. 69: 9,  John 2: 17)

Heb. `bayith,` house in the greatest variety of applications - home, house, court, temple, palace....

The Father`s house is represented on earth and in the new Jerusalem & in the Body of Christ, however, the actual `house/temple/ sanctuary/dwellingplace` is in the third heaven.

`Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: we have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens. 

A Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.` (Heb. 8: 1 & 2) 

 

Gk. `naos` a dwelling place - Temple.

`Then the Temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.` (Rev. 11: 19)

 

Gk. mone` mansion, abode, dwelling. 

`In my Father`s house are many `dwellings`.....` (John 14: 1)

 

Congratulations! You seldom build a case like you have here, and I rejoice. Nicely done. Here is my counter.

1. At the crucial moment of your theory that the Third Heaven is Gods dwelling place, you failed to give scripture. Added to this, you introduced a concept that many hold, but which is untrue. The Father's House is NEVER REPRESENTED. It IS the Body of Christ. Notice the grammar;

21 But he spake of the temple of his body. (Jn 2:21).

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ?. (1 Co 6:15).

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you (1 Co 6:19)

22 ... to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.  (Eph 1:22–23).

2. You built a case, which now seems to be incorrect, but you had to deal with my argument too. It stated five things which are named, by the Bible, as God's House.

3. No-one disputes that God has a Temple AND a Tabernacle in heaven. We dispute what the Bible calls "The House of God". It is never heaven. 

4. It was the Temple of Jerusalem where God was pleased to put His NAME (1st Ki.9:3).

5. It is the Church which shows God's glory in the ages to come (Eph.3:21)

Have you ever considered why there is a physical Temple/Tabernacle in heaven? Surely the earthly Temple surpasses the heavenly in glory? The Temple/Tabernacle of heaven is not made with hands, but what is it made from? The one on earth is a spiritual House made with men - BOTH the head and body in the image and likeness of God. Can this be said of the one in heaven?

God's THRONE is heaven. God's EXPRESSION is on earth. Bethel is a ladder set up on earth with men as angels starting on earth, becoming heavenly, and returning to earth (John Chapter 1).

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Gabriel80 said:

Marilyn, if I may-

Who are these "people" who dont have the Lord Jesus as their savior?

The 2nd generation of the population of the gentile nations in The Millennium?

 

Just making sure I understand.

 

Thank you.

Hi Gabriel,

We love questions as it opens up the topic for further discussion, so go right ahead.

Dennis is explaining it very well. I will just say that the sacrifice of Jesus covers all who turn to God. Now, not everyone knew of Jesus and His sacrifice, either they were before Jesus came or hadn`t been told afterwards. In any case God judges according to what revelation of Him the person knew and how they obeyed. 

Some people would only have their conscience to guide them and seeing the universe and nature. If they acted rightly God will judge them on their works, their motives. (Rev. 20: 13) But it is the sacrifice of Jesus that covers. 

Those in the millennium are of the nations, and must obey God`s laws as they learn them from Israel,(Micah 4: 2) and worship the King. (Zech. 14: 16) They are an earthly people and learn through sacrifices of animals the price that was needed for covering sin. 

We, in the Body of Christ are a spiritual organism, and as such are set together in the Body. (1 Cor. 12: 13,  18) We are not of the nations but` called out` (ekklesia) of them. We are a special group for a special purpose. 

The Lord is our Head and as such we are intimately connected to Him. Those who turn to God in the trib, and in the millennium are of the nations, (earthly) and don`t have that intimate relationship with Christ. 

I don`t think some believers are taught the special purpose we have in the Lord, for it would help them appreciate their position in Christ, and Christ`s great purpose for us. 

 

[Marilyn C]

1 minute ago, AdHoc said:

 

 

Congratulations! You seldom build a case like you have here, and I rejoice. Nicely done. Here is my counter.

1. At the crucial moment of your theory that the Third Heaven is Gods dwelling place, you failed to give scripture. Added to this, you introduced a concept that many hold, but which is untrue. The Father's House is NEVER REPRESENTED. It IS the Body of Christ. Notice the grammar;

21 But he spake of the temple of his body. (Jn 2:21).

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ?. (1 Co 6:15).

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you (1 Co 6:19)

22 ... to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.  (Eph 1:22–23).

2. You built a case, which now seems to be incorrect, but you had to deal with my argument too. It stated five things which are named, by the Bible, as God's House.

3. No-one disputes that God has a Temple AND a Tabernacle in heaven. We dispute what the Bible calls "The House of God". It is never heaven. 

4. It was the Temple of Jerusalem where God was pleased to put His NAME (1st Ki.9:3).

5. It is the Church which shows God's glory in the ages to come (Eph.3:21)

Have you ever considered why there is a physical Temple/Tabernacle in heaven? Surely the earthly Temple surpasses the heavenly in glory? The Temple/Tabernacle of heaven is not made with hands, but what is it made from? The one on earth is a spiritual House made with men - BOTH the head and body in the image and likeness of God. Can this be said of the one in heaven?

God's THRONE is heaven. God's EXPRESSION is on earth. Bethel is a ladder set up on earth with men as angels starting on earth, becoming heavenly, and returning to earth (John Chapter 1).

Good morning or evening to you bro Ad Hoc,

I must see `building a case differently from you, (ha, ha) for I thought I was only giving scriptures. Anyway -

1. John 2: 19 refers to the physical body of the Lord which was killed. 

And 1 Cor.6: 15. 19, Eph. 1: 22 - 23, refers to our physical bodies which together are set (spiritually) to make the Body of Christ - a spiritual organism. (1 Cor. 12: 13,  18)

2. You are relying too much on the English translation `house,` when the Greek & Hebrew words encompasses many more words. (see my notes above)

3. As per 2.

4. God`s name is His authority (in Jerusalem) and that is also given to those of the Philidelphia church. (Rev. 3: 12) And not sure why you are pointing that out.

5. Yes, the Body of Christ will show the glory of God in the ages to come. It is a spiritual Temple not a physical. We will dwell in the spiritual realm.

`It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body.` (1 Cor. 15: 44) 

We will dwell in the spirit realm while those of the nations will have physical bodies like Adam at the beginning.

You quoted -

`Heaven is my throne and earth my footstool.` (Isa. 66: 1) 

And then -

`Most assuredly I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.` (John 1: 51)

You wrongly interpret that as -

Quote - Bethel is a ladder set up on earth with men as angels starting on earth, becoming heavenly, and returning to earth (John Chapter 1). Unquote.

John 1: 51 is not referring to the dream of Jacob in Gen. 28: 12. And men don`t turn into angels. That is not scriptural. 

 

 

[AdHoc]

3 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Good morning or evening to you bro Ad Hoc,

I must see `building a case differently from you, (ha, ha) for I thought I was only giving scriptures. Anyway -

1. John 2: 19 refers to the physical body of the Lord which was killed.

Good evening to you, esteemed sister.

I'm afraid you are wrong. the Context of John 2 is "My Father's House". Ephesians 2:4 onward concerns "we" who are saved becoming, by His resurrection, (i) the household of God, (ii) a habitation of God, (iii) a Building for God, (iv) a temple for God (verses 19-22). Resurrection is for the BODY.

7 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

And 1 Cor.6: 15. 19, Eph. 1: 22 - 23, refers to our physical bodies which together are set (spiritually) to make the Body of Christ - a spiritual organism. (1 Cor. 12: 13,  18)

You ducked the grammar of 1st Corinthians 6:15 and Ephesians 1:22-23. It does not say; "REPRESENTS His Body". It is; "IS His Body". In 1st Corinthians 12:13 & 18, if our Bodies are physical then His Body is physical since we are MEMBERS. That our bodies are raised a "spiritual" body is not because they are "spirit-substance" (as our Lord pointed out concerning His Body in Luke 24:39), but because thy have their ORIGIN in the Holy Spirit. You are human. But you are also an American. One because you are OF your mother and one because you had your ORIGIN in USA.

Jesus Christ is a 100% physical Man. His enlarged Body, made of the BODIES of the Church members, is 100% Physical. It is the Church, God's House, that is "spiritual" (1st Pet.2:5) because God dwells in the human spirit (Jn.3:6, 4:24). This is plainly shown when, in Matthew 16, our Lord said He would build His Church. How? By releasing the souls of dead men to be reunited with their BODIES: He did not say that "spirits" would not prevail. He said, "the Gates of Hades" - that which stops resurrection of BODIES by shutting in the soul. See 1st Kings 17:22.

Bethel means "House of God". Men like angels are men in resurrection (Lk.20:35-36). That they start on earth shows them to be men - for angels inhabit heaven. The ladder is Christ by which we are recipients of the heavenly calling to be "seed as stars" by a birth from above but ruling the earth (Rom.4:13). But these men, once transformed to the status of an angel RETURN via the same ladder. That God's Abode is made of men like angels is seen in New Jerusalem (Rev.21:17).

[Marilyn C]

21 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Good evening to you, esteemed sister.

I'm afraid you are wrong. the Context of John 2 is "My Father's House".

Hi Ad Hoc,

John 2: 16 `Do not make my Father`s house a house of merchandise!`  

This is the Temple where people go in and out.

John 2: 19 `Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up.` 

The Jews thought He was speaking about building, their Temple. However, -

John 2: 21 `But He was speaking of the temple of His body.` 

 

26 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Ephesians 2:4 onward concerns "we" who are saved becoming, by His resurrection, (i) the household of God, (ii) a habitation of God, (iii) a Building for God, (iv) a temple for God (verses 19-22). Resurrection is for the BODY.

You ducked the grammar of 1st Corinthians 6:15 and Ephesians 1:22-23. It does not say; "REPRESENTS His Body". It is; "IS His Body". In 1st Corinthians 12:13 & 18, if our Bodies are physical then His Body is physical since we are MEMBERS. That our bodies are raised a "spiritual" body is not because they are "spirit-substance" (as our Lord pointed out concerning His Body in Luke 24:39), but because thy have their ORIGIN in the Holy Spirit. You are human. But you are also an American. One because you are OF your mother and one because you had your ORIGIN in USA.

 

1 Cor. 6: 17 `But he who is joined to the Lord is ONE SPIRIT WITH HIM.` 

2. Cor. 5: 1 - 4 `For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven. 

If indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. `

34 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

 

Bethel means "House of God". Men like angels are men in resurrection (Lk.20:35-36). That they start on earth shows them to be men - for angels inhabit heaven. The ladder is Christ by which we are recipients of the heavenly calling to be "seed as stars" by a birth from above but ruling the earth (Rom.4:13). But these men, once transformed to the status of an angel RETURN via the same ladder. That God's Abode is made of men like angels is seen in New Jerusalem (Rev.21:17).

Luke 20: 35 - 36 `But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and a sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.` 

They do not marry, is the context and are sons of God as are the angels. They certain do not become angels!

And BTW they are NOT the Body of Christ who will be transformed into like Christ. They are greater than the angels! (Rom. 8: 29,   1 John 3: 2)

I agree the `ladder` represents Christ. He is the mediator between God and man. 

The `like the stars of heaven,` are the Old Testament saints who will reside in the New Jerusalem, the city promised them. (Heb. 11: 16)

 

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

 

As I mentioned, the key to better understanding is having a handle on the different kingdoms, what they are, and how and when they apply.

I seldom recommend any commentaries or books. The one I am going to recommend opened my understanding of some things that were a mystery to me I did not understand. It is not expensive.

Eight Kingdoms: The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven (BOOK) - Michael Pearl (nogreaterjoy.org)

Hi Dennis,

So glad you have posted this for I believe that too. Did you know that my latest series in my blog area is about `Kingdoms.` I deal with the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven as well as other kingdoms.

Marilyn.