D. Adrien Posted February 2 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 470 Content Per Day: 4.52 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/22/2024 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2 Yes, many cultural biases come in to play reading text. I think more of laying down my life in service, such as having an attitude of willing to wash feet when I read that verse. Very different perspectives! Bottom line: Follow the prompts of the Holy Spirit and remain walking in the light which is where Jesus always stands. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelSnow Posted February 3 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 49 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3 Like the 'love is love' mantra, many Christians are now going off the track on forgiveness, leaving out much of what the NT teaches. Forgiveness has become part of "therapeutic deism"...forgiveness is now self-therapy rather than reconciliation. Bonhoeffer: "Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance...." If you want a Biblical NT study of both sides of the coin, Chapter Three, Forgiveness and Repentance, Love, Prayer, and Forgiveness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NConly Posted February 3 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,335 Content Per Day: 2.78 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3 On 2/1/2024 at 8:47 AM, Starise said: I have at times forgiven others but in my heart it still doesn't feel as if I forgave them. God knows I have every intent to forgive and I believe I did, but the wreckage left behind is too great to ignore and maybe that's what I see, especially when events can reoccur again opening up those wounds. I too have ones than continue to do me wrong. In my case I too feel as I have forgiven them. However what they do does not line up with, there is never any Im sorry or anything close usually it is they stay away for a week or two then want to continue the relationship with out any conversation of what they done wrong.It hard to do that even with lots of prayer. Luke 17 3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted February 3 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,300 Content Per Day: 1.71 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3 On 2/1/2024 at 6:14 PM, Renskedejonge said: But I saw Jewish women who forgave Mengele. That really baffled me. He's already in hell. Maybe it was better for themselves. You got it in one. When there is no repentance, saying one forgives an offender is really just to make one feel good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted February 3 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,300 Content Per Day: 1.71 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3 On 2/2/2024 at 4:15 AM, D. Adrien said: Jesus forgave all those involved in His scourging and crucifixion while hanging on the cross. None of them had repented. Luke 23:24 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” Strange, Jesus asks his Father to do something and it is read as Jesus is doing it. No Jesus and Stephen did Not forgive their killers. They prayed for their killers that God would forgive them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 3 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.77 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, MichaelSnow said: Forgiveness has become part of "therapeutic deism"...forgiveness is now self-therapy rather than reconciliation. Your words here inspired a short train of partially visual thought in which I thouhgt "Forgiveness frees of of the chains of sin that bind us" and saw the picture of a slave having his chains removed and then saying "Oh, I'm free!" ....... mmmm ....... Now what?". Maybe the Church should concentrate on that "now what" as much or more than the forgiveness, forgiveness just being a step into something much greater in our lives once we are freed from the chains of sin. A thought still growing as a vision in the back of my mind, someday maybe I'll find words to put to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RdJ Posted February 3 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,134 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 646 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/25/1970 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Who me said: Strange, Jesus asks his Father to do something and it is read as Jesus is doing it. No Jesus and Stephen did Not forgive their killers. They prayed for their killers that God would forgive them. If they didn't forgive them they wouldn't pray for them. That's not possible to pray for someone you hate or don't forgive. Jesus did not forgive Judas nor the pharisees who had sinned against the Spirit and He didn't pray for them either. 1 John 5 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. John 17:9-21 9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep[a] through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in [c]Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is [d]lost except the son of [e]perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who [g]will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. Edited February 3 by Renskedejonge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 3 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.77 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3 8 minutes ago, Who me said: They prayed for their killers that God would forgive them. When we pray, as Jesus taught us, for God to forgive our sins the way we forgive those of others who have sinned against against us, what qualifications for that forgiveness did he place on others to qualify for that forgiveness from us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 3 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.77 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3 24 minutes ago, Who me said: Strange, Jesus asks his Father to do something and it is read as Jesus is doing it. Did not Jesus say "I and the Father are one"? Are you trying to separate them into two different entities? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOrangeCat Posted February 3 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,412 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 1,833 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/24/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3 19 minutes ago, MichaelSnow said: Like the 'love is love' mantra, many Christians are now going off the track on forgiveness, leaving out much of what the NT teaches. Forgiveness has become part of "therapeutic deism"...forgiveness is now self-therapy rather than reconciliation. I see some of this too, mostly with the so-called "progressive" Christians. A lot of emphasis on love and not judging but it mostly registers as people using it as an excuse to wallow in particular sins. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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