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Well, we seem to be on the same page with our views, LOL. Every now and again, I reevaluate my views and understanding. If I have never said it before, I am a simple Bible student, ever learning to come to the truth and understanding. It would be a mistake for me not to look at other views and study and compare them with scripture.

God bless his heart, but my pastor preaches and believes the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are one and the same. I, too, held that view. I will never bring it up or debate him on the issue as we all develop our own exegesis, and who am I to debate a man called by God to ministry?

It is incredible how many times you can read some scripture, and suddenly, the next time you read it, something obvious you did not see or notice screams out to you. This was the case with the kingdoms for me.

I would include my thoughts on the kingdoms, but AdHoc almost quoted me verbatim on what I intended to convey. How does that old saying go, “You can teach an old dog a new hermeneutic?” LOL

Things began to mesh for me in the synoptic Gospels and Matthew, concentrating on the kingdoms. John the Baptist preached repentance for the coming kingdom of heaven and was preparing the way for the Messiah.

And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 3:2)

For a short time, Jesus was preaching the kingdom of heaven to the Jews until it was evident that He and the kingdom were to be rejected. My thinking is, and fortunate for us, that now there will be a gap (the age of Grace), the grafting in of the Gentile. Thy kingdom come will be delayed, thus far for two millennia.

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4:17)

Then, from Matthew 6:33 (and the other synoptic Gospels) forward, the kingdom of heaven was dropped, and Jesus began preaching the kingdom of God, a drastic switch until the millennium.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. (Matthew 6:33)

I now agree with AdHoc; we enter the kingdom of heaven by repentance. Repentance is our duty. In other words, it is works on our part that produces rewards.

On the other hand, the kingdom of God is spiritual and not physical. The kingdom of heaven is physical, everything visible, earth, and the 2nd heaven. I view the kingdom of God as the invisible, where Christians reside; it is within us, the abode of the heavenly host, where the Father’s throne resides.

My understanding is that after the millennium, Christ will hand over His kingdom to our Father, and the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God will merge. Correct me if my thoughts differ from your own.

@AdHoc @Marilyn C

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23 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Today, I am studying the Gospel of Matthew, and associated synoptics. I think @AdHoc might want to jump in on this discussion, too.

Before I submit my thoughts and exegesis, what are your thoughts on the kingdoms, namely, the differences between the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of Christ, and the kingdom of God, if any?

Do you believe they are different or synonymous with one another?

And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. (Luke 11:2)

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. (Matthew 6:33)  [emphasis mine]

Exodus 19:6 (KJV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

God did not realize this (at least not in totality) after the rebellion of Exodus 32 (wherein the Levitical priesthood was chosen and commissioned).

This is actually the covenant of clergy / laity which was not intended for the new covenant:

Revelation 1:6 (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

"kings and priests" is a Greek expression of the Hebrew ideal kingdom of priests.

Most are unaware or in denial over this biblical fact, but each and every believer is a priest of Almighty God in Christ Jesus. And the clergy / laity division is not for this covenant but the old covenant. When we wrongly divide the word of God and the body of Christ in this manner we hamstring God's intended exponential evangelism of the world.

There are two kingdoms (the kingdom of God which goes by several names / expressions like kingdom of heaven... and the kingdom of this fallen world). 

These are the only two and everybody is in either one or the other depending on whether or not they believe in Jesus Christ.

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56 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Well, we seem to be on the same page with our views, LOL. Every now and again, I reevaluate my views and understanding. If I have never said it before, I am a simple Bible student, ever learning to come to the truth and understanding. It would be a mistake for me not to look at other views and study and compare them with scripture.

God bless his heart, but my pastor preaches and believes the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are one and the same. I, too, held that view. I will never bring it up or debate him on the issue as we all develop our own exegesis, and who am I to debate a man called by God to ministry?

It is incredible how many times you can read some scripture, and suddenly, the next time you read it, something obvious you did not see or notice screams out to you. This was the case with the kingdoms for me.

I would include my thoughts on the kingdoms, but AdHoc almost quoted me verbatim on what I intended to convey. How does that old saying go, “You can teach an old dog a new hermeneutic?” LOL

Things began to mesh for me in the synoptic Gospels and Matthew, concentrating on the kingdoms. John the Baptist preached repentance for the coming kingdom of heaven and was preparing the way for the Messiah.

And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 3:2)

For a short time, Jesus was preaching the kingdom of heaven to the Jews until it was evident that He and the kingdom were to be rejected. My thinking is, and fortunate for us, that now there will be a gap (the age of Grace), the grafting in of the Gentile. Thy kingdom come will be delayed, thus far for two millennia.

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4:17)

Then, from Matthew 6:33 (and the other synoptic Gospels) forward, the kingdom of heaven was dropped, and Jesus began preaching the kingdom of God, a drastic switch until the millennium.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. (Matthew 6:33)

I now agree with AdHoc; we enter the kingdom of heaven by repentance. Repentance is our duty. In other words, it is works on our part that produces rewards.

On the other hand, the kingdom of God is spiritual and not physical. The kingdom of heaven is physical, everything visible, earth, and the 2nd heaven. I view the kingdom of God as the invisible, where Christians reside; it is within us, the abode of the heavenly host, where the Father’s throne resides.

My understanding is that after the millennium, Christ will hand over His kingdom to our Father, and the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God will merge. Correct me if my thoughts differ from your own.

@AdHoc @Marilyn C

 

11 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Exodus 19:6 (KJV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

God did not realize this (at least not in totality) after the rebellion of Exodus 32 (wherein the Levitical priesthood was chosen and commissioned).

This is actually the covenant of clergy / laity which was not intended for the new covenant:

Revelation 1:6 (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

"kings and priests" is a Greek expression of the Hebrew ideal kingdom of priests.

Most are unaware or in denial over this biblical fact, but each and every believer is a priest of Almighty God in Christ Jesus. And the clergy / laity division is not for this covenant but the old covenant. When we wrongly divide the word of God and the body of Christ in this manner we hamstring God's intended exponential evangelism of the world.

There are two kingdoms (the kingdom of God which goes by several names / expressions like kingdom of heaven... and the kingdom of this fallen world). 

These are the only two and everybody is in either one or the other depending on whether or not they believe in Jesus Christ.

And to my friend @Marilyn C

It is a grand pity that Rome got a thousand-year-start with a nonsensical doctrine of the "Kingdom IN Heaven" because, in the nature of leaven, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. A pity because the teaching of the Kingdom (which is the main teaching of the New Testament) contain the full gospel of grace as well. Have you ever realized that repentance, faith in Jesus, Confessing Jesus, Baptism and the Kingdom must have been one package in the primitive Church. The Ethiopian, who came from serving a royal house, started in Isaiah and ended up watching a rapture.

1. Peter's first point for a man who has been moved by the Holy Spirit - Repent! "Repent" is not only admitting your sins, but it included a 180° turn - away from a sinful life
2. Confess your new belief - Jesus is Son of God and Man who became an expiation for our sins

At this point, after a few seconds, the man is born again. This is a monumental moment. A mere flesh and blood, mortal and expendable man becoms the Temple of the Living God - unfathomable! He also becomes partaker of the divine nature and a son of God. This in turn makes him HEIR to an incorruptible inheritance - the Kingdom of God. As yet he has done NOTHING. He was drawn by God, confessed what the Holy Spirit convicted him of and admitted a truth that lurks everywhere - Jesus is special. He may now "SEE" the Kingdom of God (Jn.3:3). To see the kingdom of God means you must be alive when it arrives. So resurrection is now added to the list of desireables - a resurrection "when He (Christ) COMES" (1st Cor.15:23).

But you are Christ's by this time. He has redeemed and purchased you. And if Christ's, you are seed of Abraham and HEIR to the Covenant made with Abraham (Gal.3:29). AND IT IS THEN THAT YOU MAKE THE SECOND MOVE TOWARDS INHERITING THE KINGDOM - BAPTISM! The Covenanted party in Abraham is required ONLY to be circumcised. But the Covenant has two Kingdom now. (i) The Land of Canaan and the Kingdom of Israel, and (ii) The WORLD and the Kingdom of Heaven (Rom.4:13). If you are the heavenly calling (Heb.3:1) you are HEIR for the Kingdom of Heaven. and the sign that you will deny the flesh, now becomes a sign that the whole flesh must be cut off. Colossians 2:10-12 shows the change circumcision is replaced by Baptism.

And then comes a decisive moment. Many refuse Baptism because nobody explained to them that the body of this flesh is not compatible with the Kingdom of Heaven (1st Cor.15:50). It will be removed by death, or by a change. But God requires your signature - a sign of Covenant (Rom.4:11). And right here begins the entry into the Kingdom - not because we enter then, but the Kingdom is gained by OBEDIENCE - WHAT YOU DO. And the person refusing Baptism fails the first test to ENTER the Kingdom. John 3:3 is "SEEING" only. But John 3:5 is something you DO. Obedience is tested - and many a young Christian sets of full of joy for their new salvation but neglects the principle of the kingdom - OBEDIENT WORKS (Matt.7:21-23).

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11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Also, as comprehensive as the Bible is, it has, as its object, A God-Man and His duty ON EARTH. The Bible mentions God's universal Lordship, but is focused on His will being accomplished ON EARTH. The phrase " ...as it is in heaven" implies that there is no problem in the heavenly realm. God's will is carried out everywhere save ON EARTH.

 

`Father......having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to the good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both of which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him.` (Eph. 1: 9 & 10)

All rulership in God`s great Kingdom will come under the Lord Jesus Christ - that is God`s purpose.

And God still has to put down `principalities and powers,` in the universal realm.

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10 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Well, we seem to be on the same page with our views, LOL. Every now and again, I reevaluate my views and understanding. If I have never said it before, I am a simple Bible student, ever learning to come to the truth and understanding. It would be a mistake for me not to look at other views and study and compare them with scripture.

God bless his heart, but my pastor preaches and believes the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are one and the same. I, too, held that view. I will never bring it up or debate him on the issue as we all develop our own exegesis, and who am I to debate a man called by God to ministry?

It is incredible how many times you can read some scripture, and suddenly, the next time you read it, something obvious you did not see or notice screams out to you. This was the case with the kingdoms for me.

I would include my thoughts on the kingdoms, but AdHoc almost quoted me verbatim on what I intended to convey. How does that old saying go, “You can teach an old dog a new hermeneutic?” LOL

Things began to mesh for me in the synoptic Gospels and Matthew, concentrating on the kingdoms. John the Baptist preached repentance for the coming kingdom of heaven and was preparing the way for the Messiah.

And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 3:2)

For a short time, Jesus was preaching the kingdom of heaven to the Jews until it was evident that He and the kingdom were to be rejected. My thinking is, and fortunate for us, that now there will be a gap (the age of Grace), the grafting in of the Gentile. Thy kingdom come will be delayed, thus far for two millennia.

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4:17)

Then, from Matthew 6:33 (and the other synoptic Gospels) forward, the kingdom of heaven was dropped, and Jesus began preaching the kingdom of God, a drastic switch until the millennium.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. (Matthew 6:33)

I now agree with AdHoc; we enter the kingdom of heaven by repentance. Repentance is our duty. In other words, it is works on our part that produces rewards.

On the other hand, the kingdom of God is spiritual and not physical. The kingdom of heaven is physical, everything visible, earth, and the 2nd heaven. I view the kingdom of God as the invisible, where Christians reside; it is within us, the abode of the heavenly host, where the Father’s throne resides.

My understanding is that after the millennium, Christ will hand over His kingdom to our Father, and the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God will merge. Correct me if my thoughts differ from your own.

@AdHoc @Marilyn C

Hi Dennis,

The `kingdom of heaven, `is the rulership of Christ through Israel over the nations in the millennium. Dan. 2: 44 & 7: 27 reveal this.

The Body of Christ is not on the earth in the millennium but on the Lord`s own throne in the third heaven.

As to the Kingdom of God just being spiritual, can you tell me when God gave the earth and its people away?

`The earth is the Lord and all its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein.` (Ps. 24: 1)

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7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

And to my friend @Marilyn C

And right here begins the entry into the Kingdom - not because we enter then, but the Kingdom is gained by OBEDIENCE - WHAT YOU DO. 

Mmm and here I thought it was by Jesus` precious blood.

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Hi all,

Might I throw a veggie or two into the stew that is discussion of kingdom(s)? If so into the pot goes  recommendation  of this reference book  "Dispensational Truth" by Clarence Larkin pages 85 through 95.

If you have it in your library I encourage digging it out for both the text and the following Larkin charts "Kingdom of God"-Kingdom Of Heaven"-The Church", The Kingdom", "The Church Versus The Kingdom", The Kingdom Of Heaven Parables", and "The Millennial Land". 

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12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

The `kingdom of heaven, `is the rulership of Christ through Israel over the nations in the millennium. Dan. 2: 44 & 7: 27 reveal this.

The Body of Christ is not on the earth in the millennium but on the Lord`s own throne in the third heaven.

As to the Kingdom of God just being spiritual, can you tell me when God gave the earth and its people away?

`The earth is the Lord and all its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein.` (Ps. 24: 1)

I will attempt to do my best hopefully.

Quote: “The `kingdom of heaven, `is the rulership of Christ through Israel over the nations in the millennium. Dan. 2: 44 & 7: 27 reveal this.”

^ That is the way I see it also. ^

Quote: “As to the Kingdom of God just being spiritual, can you tell me when God gave the earth and its people away?”

To quote the good ole Captain in the image below, “What we have here is, failure to communicate.” LOL 

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:21)

I ask, can we visually see the kingdom of God within us? Can we visually see the indwelling Holy Spirit, the angels, the heavenly host. This is what I refer to as the kingdom of God at present.

As I alluded, the Jewish kingdom, Antichrist’s kingdom and the kingdom of heaven will be visible to the naked eye. The kingdom of heaven (Christ’s kingdom), and the kingdom of God will be handed over to the Father and merge.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (1 Corinthians 15:24)

God has a plan and an order to his resurrection process. Christ, the firstfruits, was the first to rise. At his next coming, all those who belong to Christ will receive resurrection bodies (15:23; see 1 Thess 4:13–18). At the end, after his millennial reign, he will hand over the kingdom to God the Father, and abolish all his enemies—including death—putting everything under his feet (15:24–27; see Ps 110:1). With everything else subjected to him, the Son will in turn be subject to the Father (15:28).[1]

At this point, I see the kingdom of heaven after Christ’s millennial reign, being turned over to the Father, and now has become the kingdom of God. Becoming both physical and spiritual, one kingdom forever more.

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? (Matthew 22:44)

To paraphrase: The Father said unto the Son…

Then the Lord Jesus quoted Psalm 110:1 where David said, “The Lord said to my Lord, ‘Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool.’ ” The first use of the word “Lord” refers to God the Father, and the second to the Messiah. So, David spoke of the Messiah as his Lord.[2] 

 

 

[1] Evans, Tony. 2019. The Tony Evans Bible Commentary. Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.

[2] MacDonald, William. 1995. Believer’s Bible Commentary: Old and New Testaments. Edited by Arthur Farstad. Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

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12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

The `kingdom of heaven, `is the rulership of Christ through Israel over the nations in the millennium. Dan. 2: 44 & 7: 27 reveal this.

The Body of Christ is not on the earth in the millennium but on the Lord`s own throne in the third heaven.

As to the Kingdom of God just being spiritual, can you tell me when God gave the earth and its people away?

`The earth is the Lord and all its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein.` (Ps. 24: 1)

When the inspired record speaks of "people", we are obliged to define them, especially (i) when so lofty a responsibility as the rulership that replaces that of Rome is meant. And in Daniel, just like many Jews, Daniel clings to the concept of Israel being "God's People. But he is always answered by "YOUR PEOPLE". God has both refused identification with His FORMER People and knows them as "Lo-ammi" (you are NOT my People), and before Nebuchadnezzar's soldiers could get badly hurt, Jehovah vacated His House in Jerusalem. So, in almost no other book of the Bible is "YOUR (Daniel's) People" indicative of God having left and divorced Israel. In no other book is God's earthly presence refused like in Daniel, for He is never called "the God of Heaven and earth" - only, "the God of heaven", except maybe in Esther (the same People) where He is NEVER MENTIONED.

This woe-some observation puts another terrible light on the two scriptures you stood on. The "saints" of the most high God" who obtain the Kingdom  are NOT Daniel's People - Israel. And none other than the Lord incarnate Himself confirms this in Matthew 21:43; 

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them

The damning thing of this is that (i) Israel were heirs to the Kingdom (otherwise it could not be "taken from them"), and (ii) they were adjudged as fruitless even if they had kept it. Their portion is to BE RULED by Believers (David -Jer.30:9) and the 12 Apostles (Matt.19:28).

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14 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I will attempt to do my best hopefully.

Quote: “The `kingdom of heaven, `is the rulership of Christ through Israel over the nations in the millennium. Dan. 2: 44 & 7: 27 reveal this.”

^ That is the way I see it also. ^

Quote: “As to the Kingdom of God just being spiritual, can you tell me when God gave the earth and its people away?”

To quote the good ole Captain in the image below, “What we have here is, failure to communicate.” LOL 

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:21)

I ask, can we visually see the kingdom of God within us? Can we visually see the indwelling Holy Spirit, the angels, the heavenly host. This is what I refer to as the kingdom of God at present.

As I alluded, the Jewish kingdom, Antichrist’s kingdom and the kingdom of heaven will be visible to the naked eye. The kingdom of heaven (Christ’s kingdom), and the kingdom of God will be handed over to the Father and merge.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (1 Corinthians 15:24)

God has a plan and an order to his resurrection process. Christ, the firstfruits, was the first to rise. At his next coming, all those who belong to Christ will receive resurrection bodies (15:23; see 1 Thess 4:13–18). At the end, after his millennial reign, he will hand over the kingdom to God the Father, and abolish all his enemies—including death—putting everything under his feet (15:24–27; see Ps 110:1). With everything else subjected to him, the Son will in turn be subject to the Father (15:28).[1]

At this point, I see the kingdom of heaven after Christ’s millennial reign, being turned over to the Father, and now has become the kingdom of God. Becoming both physical and spiritual, one kingdom forever more.

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? (Matthew 22:44)

To paraphrase: The Father said unto the Son…

Then the Lord Jesus quoted Psalm 110:1 where David said, “The Lord said to my Lord, ‘Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool.’ ” The first use of the word “Lord” refers to God the Father, and the second to the Messiah. So, David spoke of the Messiah as his Lord.[2] 

 

 

[1] Evans, Tony. 2019. The Tony Evans Bible Commentary. Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.

[2] MacDonald, William. 1995. Believer’s Bible Commentary: Old and New Testaments. Edited by Arthur Farstad. Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Strother Martin.jpg

Nicely and concisely put. Man's job was to SUBDUE and then RULE (Gen.1:26-28). The Millennium is fr SUBDUING and the Millennium AND the ages to come are for RULING.

- In this age God's will is that all men come to the knowledge of the truth. Do they all? NO! God's will is yet to be accomplished.

- In the Millennium, God's will is that every knee bow and every tongue confess Jesus. Is it done? YES! But men still die - especially the hoards of Magog. Does Jesus put down death? YES! God's will is achieved on earth

- In the ages to come, God's will is a corporate man showing His glory (the Church), a Nation (Israel) displaying His Mercy,  ruling with His style and rules (the Kingdom of God and of Heaven), and having a testimony of His righteousness (the Lake of Fire). Is His will accomplished? YES!

THY Kingdom COME (to earth). THY Will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven - a prayer prayed when things looked impossible and which took seven (1,000-year) days to be answered.

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