A NEW REVIVAL?

[Retrobyter]

On 2/11/2024 at 10:14 AM, choir loft said:

There are many who are hoping and watching for another great global revival prior to the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

Let the reader understand that the hope is being fulfilled even as we read and write here.

But it won't happen in the post-modern church.  

Every statistic worth its numbers tells us the church is dying at an unprecedented rate...even faster than was predicted as recently as the year 2010.

Opportunistic preachers lie to their congregations so as to raise money to support their godless lifestyle.  It's everywhere.  Nearly every American 'evangelist' is doing it....as they fly from private venue to private venue in their private jets.

It's not just the church either.   There is also alarming news that all but one Jewish discipline is dying too.

The ONLY religious groups that are actually increasing in size are Islam and evangelical Judaism.

I imagine the reader here has informed himself/herself of the rise in interest in Islam since 911.  It's an uncomfortable fact that cannot be denied.

Whispers have been heard, even among isolated congregations, that the church is everywhere dying....on a global scale.  The church age ended in 1968.  It ended shortly after the IDF liberated Jerusalem and the temple mount.  A new age is upon us whether we acknowledge it or not, whether we believe it or not.  

NUMBERS DON'T LIE.

Evangelical Jews are also known as MESSANIC JEWS. 

I am one of them.

I am here to testify that Y'shuah (Jesus' Hebrew name - which means 'salvation') IS the ha-Mashiach (messiah - latinized to Christ - meaning the 'annointed One of God'). 

The reader would do well to explore the significance of this global trend.

The church is today riddled with SINs and hypocrisy.  The 'her' referenced in Revelation is the church. 

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “’Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;  (Revelation 18:4)

Choose wisely, pilgrim.  The future of you and your family is at stake here....nothing less.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....   (Isaiah 6:9-10)

Shalom, choir loft.

Numbers don't lie, but people frequently lie with numbers!

And, his Name is actually Yeeshuwa` (יֵשׁ֡וּעַ pronounced "yay-shoo'-gah"), which is Hebrew for "He shall save/rescue/deliver.") It is a verb with the 3rd-person, singular, masculine prefix. The `ayin, the last consonant of the name [on the left end, btw] is the same as the first letter in "Gaza." It's a 'swallowed g' sound, like when a person gulps. Only a "Sabra" (a native of Israel) or an Arab or an Egyptian will pronounce it correctly.

Also, the "her" reference is NOT about the "church!" It's about BABYLON the Great! 

Revelation 18:1-10 (KJV)

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,

"Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying,

"Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart,

"'I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.'

8 "Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her."

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying,

"Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come!"

[WilliamL]

On 3/24/2024 at 9:16 AM, choir loft said:

If non-Jews aren't required to live by the LAW, then none of them could be saved.

Show me one passage in the NT wherein the Apostles taught that circumcision of the flesh, required by the Law of Moses, is a requirement for Gentiles to be saved.

Galatians 2:1 Then after fourteen years I [Paul] went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

This took place during the Council of Jerusalem, which Acts 15 says was called because of Jewish believers telling Gentile believers that they had to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses. The conclusion of that council, announced by James was this:

Acts 15:24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— ... 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

So what do you say?

[choir loft]

19 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Show me one passage in the NT wherein the Apostles taught that circumcision of the flesh, required by the Law of Moses, is a requirement for Gentiles to be saved.

Galatians 2:1 Then after fourteen years I [Paul] went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

This took place during the Council of Jerusalem, which Acts 15 says was called because of Jewish believers telling Gentile believers that they had to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses. The conclusion of that council, announced by James was this:

Acts 15:24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— ... 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

So what do you say?

Once again the LAW is being subjected to the criticism of illiterate dogma.  

What do you know of the LAW?  Little, if all you can do is argue about dietary restrictions and what does or doesn't dangle between.......   Little, if the purpose of your entire discourse is to defend SIN itself.

The books of the LAW, the PROPHETS and the WRITINGS comprise the books of the Tanakh, what is generally referred to as the Old Covenant by church types.   The nomenclature has been adopted by people who today DENY any covenant between God and His people.   This is why I wrote apart from the LAW no one can be saved.    

Matthew 5:17 quotes Jesus saying, "I did not come to abolish the LAW.  I came to fulfill it."   

Is Jesus Christ a liar?  

If He is, then this entire discussion is moot.   If He isn't, then there is something else going on that the church cannot fathom because THE CHURCH IS IN LOVE WITH ITS OWN SIN.  The church today exalts a godless gospel of hyper grace that doesn't exist and never did exist.   The LAW and GRACE work together.   One is saved by grace according to the LAW so that they may live lives of holiness, apart from the world, according to the LAW.

Having been saved is one justified in killing one's neighbor, raping his wife, stealing his worldly goods and burning his neighbor's house to the ground after which he can walk away justified in himself?  Sounds more like a middle eastern philosophy than anything promoted in the Bible. YET it is exactly this that our churches now promote.  

For instance, the Gay Alliance has a greater voice in the assembly of faux saints today than the rigors of the gospel and its call to REPENTANCE for SIN.  Do you deny this hypocrisy?  (1 Corinthians 6:9)

Shall I go on to mention leadership abuse of minors, of the rape of little boys, of ministers of the gospel who have sexual affairs with women who aren't their wives, of church employees who regularly embezzle money from the common purse, of church youth programs that promote horizontal entertainment for teens rather than Bible study?   Shall I continue about violations of the laws of man and god to certify what I here declare?  

The church is riddled with the cancer of SIN and WILL NOT let go of it.  For this offense against both God and man the church shall die as an institution.

Let us depart from meaningless bickering about diet and traditions of personal hygiene (that are medically sound, btw).  The church, like the pharisees in Jesus' time has rejected God's LAW and traditions and adopted pagan substitutes instead.  The church today is as religiously hypocritical as the pharisees, yet it's hubris justifies any wicked thing it chooses to put its hand upon.

Continue to reject the necessity and vitality of God's LAW and you will see the institutional church crumble into the dust of history before your eyes...not understanding at all why it is happening.  

THE LAW STILL STANDS.

Take a long hard look at Jesus' words and my poor attempt to explain them.  Take a long hard look at the corruption of the church and its withering existence in the world.   Take a long hard look at the LAW and you will see the beauty of it as well as the condemnation our church justly deserves.   For it is the Grace of God that gave us His LAW, not to be abolished but to be lived as He gives us purpose to do so.

The FIRST thing the LAW requires of anyone is REPENTANCE.   The church has denied that too.  

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

Edited March 27 by choir loft

[choir loft]

On 3/25/2024 at 3:19 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, choir loft.

Right. Paul said, they are a "law unto themselves." And, they were given certain laws by God after the Flood. They were not to eat meat with the blood still in it, and they were told by God,

Genesis 9:6 (KJV)

6 "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."

This law of capital punishment fell upon ALL human beings (and animals, too) after the Flood. Thus, these laws are common to all.

As far as the Law given at Mt. Sinai to Mosheh ("Moses"), not all Gentiles are privy to it; however, they can still be held to the Law because it is God's requirements for the children of Israel who were to be the priests to the Gentiles.

Correct, again. The Law was our schoolmaster - our teacher - to show us our complete need for God's justification (not "salvation"). It shows us that we are INCAPABLE ON OUR OWN of appeasing God, no matter how hard we try.

Well, this is close, but there seems to be too much emphasis on keeping God's Law, which it's been demonstrated we are INCAPABLE of doing. God is a COMPLETELY HOLY GOD and a PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS GOD! If one has sinned even once, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to undo the sin in one's life! God sees all of time at once! No future deed is going to wipe out the past deeds we have done! God HIMSELF must step in and do what is otherwise impossible for us! THAT is how God JUSTIFIES an individual. He CALLS us "RIGHTEOUSNESS" IN SPITE of our sins! This can ONLY be done through the finished work of Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") on the cross, for it was there that God called His Son, "SIN!" and poured out His wrath upon that SIN! By making Him our Sacrifice for sin, God can perform the transfer, and we legitimately, legally are called "HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS FOUND IN HIS SON!" (2 Cor. 5:21)

But, remember, "by the deeds of the Law NO FLESH shall be justified!" (Romans 3:20).

Absolutely not; the Law is PERFECT because GOD is PERFECT! Paul said,

Romans 7:7-12 (KJV)

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, "Thou shalt not covet." 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without (outside of) the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without (outside of) the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

You're right ... up to a point. However, Gentiles are not among those whose "minds and hearts of those He has redeemed by His blood" NATURALLY! Only redeemed Gentiles are! Natural Gentiles who have not yet known to make the Messiah their sacrifice for sin aere NOT (or NOT YET) redeemed by His blood! You're confusing the Law, which is the set of rules governing the sacrifice, with the sacrifice itself! 

God's LAW is the "HOW" the sacrifice is to be made; the Sacrifice is the "WHAT" (or rather, the "WHO") is being sacrificed.

Well, we AREN'T "saved by the LAW!" We are JUSTIFIED by God THROUGH HIS SON keeping the whole LAW! That's not a "license to sin," because God won't put up with that! Once we are His children, He deals with us as sons (and daughters), chastening us as necessary!

Once God through His Ruwach haKodesh has put His Law into our hearts, we don't WANT to go against it! He has given us a conscience to do His Law, not because it's required, but because we LOVE HIM! It's not a matter of "what we have to do" anymore; it's a "what we GET to do" now through the power of His Ruwach! The matter of our justification and our redemption and our adoption is SETTLED! We become His children, and He never forsakes us!

No, they are NOT the same thing. The Law are the RULES to follow that God has established; the Grace of God is the MEANS by which He has provided justification THROUGH HIS SON'S FINISHED WORK, both in KEEPING the Law completely, and in DYING as our Sacrifice for sin. We cannot be justified by God without the Sacrifice called "sin" being killed on our behelf (when we make His death our sacrifice for sin)! Only then, can God pronounce us "His own Righteousness" found within His Son!

"Emasculate?!" That means to make someone "less than a man!"

No, Jews are required to keep the commandments, all 613, of them because they are God's chosen people! But, Paul - a Pharisee - told us that NO ONE could keep all of the commandments perfectly (and he should know)! No one, that is, except the Messiah of God.  The animal sacrifices would only COVER sins for a year, but the Lamb of God - haKeves 'Elohiym - REMOVED our sins completely!  

The author of Hebrews told us this,

Hebrews 9:23-28; 10:1-25 (KJV)

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation (RESCUE)!

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can NEVER with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith,

"Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, 'Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.' " (Psalm 40:6-8)

8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure" therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God." He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting (anticipating) till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 "'This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days,' saith the Lord, 'I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.'" (Jeremiah 31:33-34)

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

                                                                             

You're correct on several fronts, but don't think for a moment that believing in Yeeshuwa` as the One through whom we are justified means that we have replaced God's Law! The Law hasn't been touched or abandoned (by those who know better); we still must keep God's Law, however, not to be accepted by God, but to make God happy because we LOVE God! Only the  Old Mosaic Covenant, i.e., the Covenant that God made with the children of Israel at Mount Sinai, will be replaced by the New Covenant that God will make with the houses of Israel and Judah. That is the ONLY thing that shall be replaced. The current Covenant of interest, though, is the DAVIDIC Covenant of 2 Samuel 7, repeated in 1 Chronicles 17. THAT is the Covenant that was repeated by Gabriel to Mary in Luke 1, and it is THAT Covenant that was presented to the Jews for 1/2 a Week of Daniel 9. For three and a half years, the Gospel of the Kingdom (Isaiah 52:7) was heralded to the Jews, but they rejected their KING-APPARENT (the MESSIAH), and He left them DESOLATE (as predicted by Gabriel in Daniel 9:27) until that which is decided against them is poured out upon the desolate. He said He would return when they can say, "Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH." (Matthew:23:37-39).

Perhaps, but all we can do is control our own actions, and I prefer to keep God's Law to honor Him because I love Him and want to please Him through the power of His Ruwach haQodesh. Oh, and one more thing; if a person has been justified by God through the finished work of the Messiah, then he or she will NOT go to the Lake of Fire.

All I read here is a lengthy wordy defense of SIN.......godless licentious SIN.

That's all anyone seems to be able to come up with.

Either one is in obedience to God's LAW or one is in rebellion against it. 

It's just that simple....no apology in defense or 'spin' of SIN will stand against the LAW.  

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, choir loft said:

Once again the LAW is being subjected to the criticism of illiterate dogma.  

What do you know of the LAW?  Little, if all you can do is argue about dietary restrictions and what does or doesn't dangle between.......   Little, if the purpose of your entire discourse is to defend SIN itself.

The books of the LAW, the PROPHETS and the WRITINGS comprise the books of the Tanakh, what is generally referred to as the Old Covenant by church types.   The nomenclature has been adopted by people who today DENY any covenant between God and His people.   This is why I wrote apart from the LAW no one can be saved.

Shalom, choir loft.

No one that I've read so far in this topic is denying the Law. I know plenty of the Law. I've studied the 613 commandments 0f God, but you need to realize that God Himself had to make a way for His Law to be IMPLEMENTED where it otherwise could not be obeyed.

NO ONE is "defending SIN!" Are you meshuggah?! We are ALL SINNERS, even you, my friend! And, no matter HOW MUCH you try to adhere to the Law, you will NEVER be able to keep it all! For example, every commandment that requires an animal sacrifice in the Temple upon the brazen altar is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE right now, even if you WANTED to follow the commandment! While the Temple was present before 70 A.D., He performed every rite and ritual that was necessary, according to God's Law! Moreover, He had God's testimony, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am WELL PLEASED!"

4 hours ago, choir loft said:

Matthew 5:17 quotes Jesus saying, "I did not come to abolish the LAW.  I came to fulfill it."   

Is Jesus Christ a liar?  

NO! He is not a liar! He said He came to fulfill the Law, and HE DID! He kept the Law of God PERFECTLY, COMPLETELY! That is what He meant, and that is what He did.

4 hours ago, choir loft said:

If He is, then this entire discussion is moot.   If He isn't, then there is something else going on that the church cannot fathom because THE CHURCH IS IN LOVE WITH ITS OWN SIN.  The church today exalts a godless gospel of hyper grace that doesn't exist and never did exist. The LAW and GRACE work together.   One is saved by grace according to the LAW so that they may live lives of holiness, apart from the world, according to the LAW.

How do you figure? The churches are NOT "in love with its own sin." That is NOT what Yeeshuwa` the Messiah or the apostles taught! 

This teaching, namely,

"The LAW and GRACE work together.   One is saved by grace according to the LAW so that they may live lives of holiness, apart from the world, according to the LAW,"

is TRULY egregiously appalling! It doesn't match any of the teachings of the Bible!

Galatians 2:15-21 (KJV)

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall NO FLESH be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Ponder this carefully before you type another word!

4 hours ago, choir loft said:

Having been saved is one justified in killing one's neighbor, raping his wife, stealing his worldly goods and burning his neighbor's house to the ground after which he can walk away justified in himself?  Sounds more like a middle eastern philosophy than anything promoted in the Bible. YET it is exactly this that our churches now promote.

Be careful that you are making a distinction between churches that preach the truth of God's Word and those that teach a religious "political correctness."

4 hours ago, choir loft said:

For instance, the Gay Alliance has a greater voice in the assembly of faux saints today than the rigors of the gospel and its call to REPENTANCE for SIN.  Do you deny this hypocrisy?  (1 Corinthians 6:9)

Shall I go on to mention leadership abuse of minors, of the rape of little boys, of ministers of the gospel who have sexual affairs with women who aren't their wives, of church employees who regularly embezzle money from the common purse, of church youth programs that promote horizontal entertainment for teens rather than Bible study?   Shall I continue about violations of the laws of man and god to certify what I here declare?  

The church is riddled with the cancer of SIN and WILL NOT let go of it.  For this offense against both God and man the church shall die as an institution.

Okay, now I know that you are "preaching" against the established denominations that hail from Catholicism. But, "choir loft," you're "preaching to the choir!"

4 hours ago, choir loft said:

Let us depart from meaningless bickering about diet and traditions of personal hygiene (that are medically sound, btw).  The church, like the pharisees in Jesus' time has rejected God's LAW and traditions and adopted pagan substitutes instead.  The church today is as religiously hypocritical as the pharisees, yet it's hubris justifies any wicked thing it chooses to put its hand upon.

Continue to reject the necessity and vitality of God's LAW and you will see the institutional church crumble into the dust of history before your eyes...not understanding at all why it is happening.  

THE LAW STILL STANDS.

Take a long hard look at Jesus' words and my poor attempt to explain them.  Take a long hard look at the corruption of the church and its withering existence in the world.   Take a long hard look at the LAW and you will see the beauty of it as well as the condemnation our church justly deserves.   For it is the Grace of God that gave us His LAW, not to be abolished but to be lived as He gives us purpose to do so.

The FIRST thing the LAW requires of anyone is REPENTANCE.   The church has denied that too.  

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

Repentance is turning 180 degrees FROM the sins in one's life and turning TO God for His help. That is what repentance is. However, a human being CANNOT live righteously no matter how well intentioned he or she may be! One must turn TO God and let HIM make the exchange of "our SIN" for "His RIGHTEOUSNESS." Once we have made Yeeshuwa`s soul our sacrifice, then the transfer is complete, the Ruwach haQodesh 'Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) comes to live within us, ahd HE does the righteous living for us!

[Stash]

Here is my two cents whether you like it or not lol
There is going to be a revival according to the Bible 
This Bible will be new age, and it will sweep the whole world. It's going to be a mixture of every religion. It doesn't matter as long as you believe in god. 
First, the world has to feel some pain coming in order to set it up for the antichrist
I have no doubt the Islam and Jews will follow right in lock step. They're already almost there.

So what is it going to take to get everybody's attention? It will be a supernatural entity, known as Satan in de facto on Earth

I believe this revival is about ready to explode and it is going to come from the patriots of the United States, led by Trump. This is not far fetch because Trump is into prosperity gospel. That's where he went to church in New York. I do my research.
I have nothing against Trump. He is just a servant of Satan and he doesn't know it or he might. 
It's pretty obvious to see that they're destroying the world to set up something and I know what it is and it will have a leader, preaching prosperity and peace  
The same message from is talking about right now

This new age revival will sweep the world and the reason I could claim that is why does the Bible says narrow is the gate? 
 

you do know Trump is putting out a new team game Bible mixed in with the US constitution and Bill of Rights

that is an abomination to a real Christian

 

 

 

[Charlie744]

Well, I am going to follow @Stash lead and also throw my two cents in here.

First, I am very surprised to learn that anyone believes the “10 Commandments” have either been done away with, no longer relevant, not applicable to Gentiles, or anything along this lines. 
 

Jesus came for many reasons:

1) to “fulfill” the Law (10 commandments), meaning He showed us how it could be honored or kept each and every day,

2) He told us to “obey His commandments and believe in Him,” 

3) I hope I put this correctly but I am sure the thought will get through- the Levitical laws, ceremonies, practices, have been DONE AWAY WITH. They were a “type and shadow” of the coming . THEIR MISSION within His fullest plan of salvation was fulfilled (Jew and Gentile),

4) The “physical elements” described in the Torah, the Temple, the Sanctuary, the Laver, etc., are / were also a "type and shadow" of the coming Messiah. THEIR MISSION was also fulfilled by the Messiah. 

5) What was / is NOT a "type and shadow" are God's 10 commandments. Jesus did not come to abolish HIS FATHER'S LAWS He gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai. They were written in  for a reason- they are permanent and written by the hand of God.
 

6) The New Covenant was “Confirmed” by Jesus. This is identified in Jeremiah 31:31-34. It is the 10 commandments  would now be a “better covenant.” He would now place His Laws WITHIN our hearts of stone. Now, He has moved everything from the “external” to the “internal.” We now have a more personal with our God. 

7) In my recent study of Daniel, I offer that there is a perfect reason why God presented Daniel with 4  and purposeful ways to consider His 10 Commandments (meaning, He is emphasizing just how important they are TO HIM).

Daniel will reveal the 4 h  in very different ways in chapters 2, 7 and 8. Each provides a new and unique way to interpret each kingdom. God uses the exact same method to reveal just how HIS 10 COMMANDMENTS are to Him, AND how they MUST CONTINUE TO THE END OF DAYS. 
 
  a) In chapter 2, the 10 toes are shown at the end of the iron feet of pagan Rome. These 10 toes reflect His 10 commandments that, just like the “clay” (His people) are encased or are kept under the control of this final kingdom. The Jews had failed to fulfill THEIR God given mission of revealing and preaching the One true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to the pagan/Gentile world. They kept Him to themselves and kept apart from all Gentiles / pagans. Again, that was not God’s plan from the beginning. 
  

  b) In chapter 2, (2:34), the Stone (Messiah) would strike the feet (not the toes) and break apart the iron and the clay. ONLY THESE TWO ELEMENTS WERE NOT ONLY BROKEN AWAY FROM THE iron feet of pagan Rome, but God (Potter) would also separate the “pottery clay” (Jews who would accept He was their Messiah) from the “ceramic clay” (Jews who would reject Him). The Stone did not come to destroy but to divide. Verse 2:35 will take place in 2000 years or so at His second coming. 
 

c) So the 10 toes were “locked up” if you will along with the Jews within the control of the 4th kingdom.

  d) But look what happens in chapter 7. Now, God reveals the 4th kingdom in a very different way. The “indescribable 4th beast kingdom” is shown as pagan Rome. The 10 toes are now shown OUTSIDE of the hold of the 4th beast of pagan Rome. God depicts them as 10 horns or powers. This is quite appropriate since there is true changing power in His 10 commandments. Also, note that they are shown “coming out of” the 4th beast kingdom. Meaning, they have been released by the Stone striking the feet. They reflect those Jews after the cross (pottery clay), that would go out into the world preaching God’s Word ( 10 commandments) AND the Testimony of Jesus. 
 

 e) Later in chapter 7 we find that the 10 horns will now be referred to as “10 kings.” WHY? Why is God showing us this transition or progression for His 10 commandments? 
After some 300-400 years of the cross, His church will replace pagan Rome. In chapter 7, Daniel tells us the 4th beast will be “slain and his body is destroyed.” And indeed this took place with papal Rome supplanted pagan Rome. Now, the church has gown exponentially and has amassed tremendous power and control over both religious and secular matters. AND THIS IS WHERE THEY ARE REFERRED TO AS “10 kings.” They are now found to be sitting “atop the 4th beast kingdom.” They have come to be such a powerful force, even a weapon of control in the hands of the “little horn.” 
 

  f) Also, did you notice there is no mention of the “little horn” in chapter 2? Why? Because he does not come into existence until AFTER THE CROSS AND HIS  CHURCH is being sent out to the Gentiles. He does not exist because he represents a group of Gentiles that have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and they are shown in the early part of chapter 7 as ALSO coming OUT OF THE 4th beast kingdom as a directly  result of the Stone the feet. BUT, they are presented as coming out AFTER the 10 horns come out of the 4th kingdom. The 10 horns (commandments) existed BEFORE AND AFTER CROSS. The “little horn” would start out as a small group of Gentiles UNTIL they amassed great power and they would also come to “sit atop the 4th beast kingdom” and come to be as the papacy and papal Rome.

 g) So we can see the purpose God has in presenting His 10 Commandments in very different ways as His church progresses through the 4th beast kingdom. It is God telling us His 10 commandments WILL NEVER GO AWAY OR NOT BE IMPORTANT TO HIM OR WITHIN HIS CHURCH. 
 

  h) Now, we will be able to see just how accurate and clear God is (imo) regarding His 10 commandments AFTER the cross. In chapter 7, God reveals what will happen to His 10 Commandments (kings) when they come to full power within His church- when His church is ruled by this “little horn.” He tells us the next progression for these 10 kings is when the “little horn” will “pluck up 3 of the 10 kings.” What does this mean? Today’s accepted interpretations contend these 10 toes, these 10 horns, these 10 kings are one and the same and represent 10 FUTURE nations or kingdoms coming some 2000 years in the future. But they are NOT! The 10 toes existed BEFORE AND AFTER THE CROSS AND WILL CONTINUE UNTIL THE END OF DAYS. But this “little horn” (papacy) will  “pluck out” 3 of the 10!!! Meaning, he will effectively change God’s first 3 commandments. 
 

    1) He will claim he is divine and equal to God. He is God on earth. No mention in THEIR 10 commandments of the “God of Israel who took them by the hand…, “ The papacy will “scrub” any mention or relationship in His 10 commandments of the Jews. 
 

  2) They will completely do away with Gods second commandment regarding the worshiping of idols. Gone!

 3) They will and are taking the name of God in vain. In so many ways they will of course use the name of Jesus but they will w and develop their own way of worshipping. Too many to mention but now, the way to salvation is through the Catholic Church. The papacy says they can forgive sin, they speak as God on earth, they are divine and must be worshipped… on and on. So these 3 of God’s 10 commandments have been “plucked up” from the 10. Chapter 7 continues with no less than 10 specific characteristics or traits  that easily identify this “little horn.” This is the one who had gone against our God for over 1500 years. He had blasphemed God and corrupted His Word. This is YOUR ANTI-CHRIST LIKE ONE WHO WILL CONTINUE UNTIL THE END UNTIL HE IS DESTROYED WITHOUT HUMAN HANDS. There is no “anti-Christ” boogeyman coming at the end… God has gone to great lengths to identify him AND the time he would come upon the earth. 
 

Obviously, this is a very long response to why the 10 commandments are so necessary for us to consider— they are so important to HIM!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Retrobyter]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:14 AM, choir loft said:

All I read here is a lengthy wordy defense of SIN.......godless licentious SIN.

Shalom, @choir loft

Are you talking about Paul or the author of Hebrews?

On 3/27/2024 at 10:14 AM, choir loft said:

That's all anyone seems to be able to come up with.

Either one is in obedience to God's LAW or one is in rebellion against it. 

It's just that simple....no apology in defense or 'spin' of SIN will stand against the LAW.  

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Keep on hollering, bro'.  If you want to please God with your keeping of the LAW, good luck to you .... because LUCK is all you'll get out of it! And, it won't be "good"!

[WilliamL]

On 3/27/2024 at 8:02 AM, choir loft said:

Matthew 5:17 quotes Jesus saying, "I did not come to abolish the LAW.  I came to fulfill it."   

Is Jesus Christ a liar?  

Nope, He fulfilled it by shedding His blood on the cross. "It is finished!"

On 3/27/2024 at 8:02 AM, choir loft said:

The church today exalts a godless gospel of hyper grace that doesn't exist and never did exist.

Those of the Church practicing "the apostasy" [2 Thes. 2:3] teach such things, but many others of the Church don't. One of the signs of the End Times. Didn't you know this?

On 3/27/2024 at 8:02 AM, choir loft said:

Let us depart from meaningless bickering about diet and traditions of personal hygiene...

You're saying parts of the Law of Moses are "meaningless"? Then who gets to decide which parts are meaningless? You? Circumcision of the flesh was a requirement for any follower of the Law to observe the Passover. You say it isn't?   

[Charlie744]

15 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Nope, He fulfilled it by shedding His blood on the cross. "It is finished!"

 

15 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Those of the Church practicing "the apostasy" [2 Thes. 2:3] teach such things, but many others of the Church don't. One of the signs of the End Times. Didn't you know this?

You're saying parts of the Law of Moses are "meaningless"? Then who gets to decide which parts are meaningless? You? Circumcision of the flesh was a requirement for any follower of the Law to observe the Passover. You say it isn't?   

“He did not come to ABOLISH the Law but to FULFILL it.”

These two words are quite different… Jesus did not come to ABOLISH OR DO AWAY with HIS FATHERS LAW given to Moses BY GOD. 
 

But JESUS did FULFILL or HONOR HIS FATHERS LAW while He was on the earth. He never once sinned against any one of HIS FATHERS 10 commandments. 
 

The term “it is finished” does not refer to the doing away of the 10 commandments:

1) Jesus would then never had told His disciples to “obey His commandments and believe in Him,” 

2) God had specifically “see aside” the last week in Daniel’s 70 weeks of years prophecy for HIS MESSIAH to complete the 6 requirements (9:24) that He gave to Him to  fulfill DURING  those final 7 years. But of course, He was crucified exactly 3.5 years from the start of the final week (1st day of the 70th week). Meaning, the Messiah WOULD FINISH THOSE 6 REQUIREMENTS despite the cross. 

The cross it His sacrifice paid for all of our sins against these same 10 commandments. Obviously, they have not been “done away with.” We still sin , even Paul tells us that we are not free to sin even though He paid for our sins. 
 

The Levitical ceremonies and practices, the Temple, the Sanctuary, the dietary restrictions, the animal sacrifices, etc., were ALL a “type and shadow” of the coming Messiah. He WOULD fulfill ALL of them, but HIS FATHERS 10 WORDS will never be done away with. 
 

You can also find that in chapter 7, where the little horn (papacy who comes some 400 years AFTER the cross) will take over His church and do away with (pluck up) the first 3 of the 10 commandments. But he will not be able to destroy or do away with them for Gabriel tells us in chapter 7 he will only be successful in “subduing” them! His Word can never be destroyed, taken away but “subdued.”