Neighbor Posted February 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,713 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,111 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted February 27 Just now, Neighbor said: G-d said we don't get punished for the sins of others. Did he? Is not death itself due to Adam's sin against God punishment or the consequence that is visited upon all of God's creation except for one human( Enoch) so far? Yes there seems to be some conflicting entries to have to reconcile, once death is introduced to and upon creation, as to whom suffers punishment including the punishment of death. The fathers sin and the children's teeth are set on edge; plus, the sins of the father are visited upon the children to the third and fourth generation; as examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted February 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,713 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,111 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted February 27 16 minutes ago, Neighbor said: I'm somehow responsible for his death 2000+ years ago is also tiresome. Yep tiresome. What you are personally responsible for is hearing and heeding the call (By God) to your own repentance from your own sin against God, same as I am or anyone on earth is. No one can make you heed to that opportunity. You can indeed deny the call. We each are responsible to God for ourselves, none have excuse. If and when God calls it is best to heed that call! "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. These things I command you, that you love one another." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted February 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,662 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27 15 hours ago, other one said: I doubt I could convince you. Do you have a choice to be an American or not? Not initially you didn't. Can you leave? I would think yes. Can those under Hamas rule leave? Maybe, but probably at a steep cost which could end up them leaving this life and their families. We aren't here to 'convince' are we? I am here to get deeper into this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27 8 minutes ago, Starise said: Do you have a choice to be an American or not? Not initially you didn't. Can you leave? I would think yes. Can those under Hamas rule leave? Maybe, but probably at a steep cost which could end up them leaving this life and their families. We aren't here to 'convince' are we? I am here to get deeper into this issue. In March 1968 I swore an oath to protect the constitution to the point of giving my life for it. (Maybe not wise but is reality) We do that because we care for our country. So while I don't disagree that it might have been difficult for them to do that, but it can be done and has been done throughout history. It really isn't a choice they would make if they are followers of Mohammad, though, for they have already pledged themselves to Sharia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted February 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,662 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27 7 minutes ago, other one said: In March 1968 I swore an oath to protect the constitution to the point of giving my life for it. (Maybe not wise but is reality) We do that because we care for our country. So while I don't disagree that it might have been difficult for them to do that, but it can be done and has been done throughout history. It really isn't a choice they would make if they are followers of Mohammad, though, for they have already pledged themselves to Sharia. Once again we need to define who "they" are. If they hold guns and come at Israel then no doubt who or what they are. Unless I get info somewhere else that is reliable I am going with the info I have that says they are basically clamped down and would probably be shot for attempting to leave, like North Korea. That is, those who don't want a part in any of this. In this case, "they" is a case by case kind of thing, even in the armies because those guys are asked to serve with the knowledge of what will happen if they refuse. Once they have a gun though, they are the enemy to Israel no doubt. A few fortunates escape. I am convinced there is a percentage of people who want nothing to do with any of it.Maybe a large percentage just want out of there and a place to raise their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27 11 minutes ago, Starise said: Once again we need to define who "they" are. If they hold guns and come at Israel then no doubt who or what they are. Unless I get info somewhere else that is reliable I am going with the info I have that says they are basically clamped down and would probably be shot for attempting to leave, like North Korea. That is, those who don't want a part in any of this. In this case, "they" is a case by case kind of thing, even in the armies because those guys are asked to serve with the knowledge of what will happen if they refuse. Once they have a gun though, they are the enemy to Israel no doubt. A few fortunates escape. I am convinced there is a percentage of people who want nothing to do with any of it.Maybe a large percentage just want out of there and a place to raise their families. That is always possible, however when polled it is my understanding that 84% of them agreed with the killing of the 1,200 Jews that were killed. The people of Gaza have a history, and from the start they wanted Jews dead and out of the land that Allah once dominated. The only way out for the People of Gaza, if they truly are Islamic would be to back Hamas. If there are some that are not truly followers of Mohammad, I guess I would have to agree with you, but according to Sharia, they should have been killed long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted February 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,662 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27 Just now, other one said: when polled And if you "polled" citizens in the CCP you would get an even higher number. Pollsters have said a poll can be made to say anything you want it to say. How many American like hot dogs? Let's poll 100 americans like right next to the ball park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Starise said: And if you "polled" citizens in the CCP you would get an even higher number. Pollsters have said a poll can be made to say anything you want it to say. How many American like hot dogs? Let's poll 100 americans like right next to the ball park. I can see that we are on two different levels of thought here. Hot dogs are not a religion, and we are not forced to like them. Palestinians are Islamic and are forced to follow Mohammad and if they don't terrible things happen to them (by their own people) That is the life of Islam. And if you are going to exist around or among them, one should really learn what makes them click. I have not been saying all the people of Gaza should be killed, only the members of Hamas who are sworn to the death to drive the Jews out of Israel. They are actually rewarded when they die for the effort of trying to do so. Because of that situation, the only recourse that Israel has is to either convert them to Christianity or do them in, or there will never be peace in Israel. Israel is quite capable of doing this and if the people really want to rid of Hamas they should help Israel get the job done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27 9 hours ago, Slibhin said: Aside from being totally contrary to messianic prophecy, even if everything about him was true G-d said we don't get punished for the sins of others. Actually, that was Jesus that said that. In the Torah, as you call it, it goes like this: Quote Ex 34:6-7 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation. ESV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted February 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,662 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27 20 minutes ago, other one said: I can see that we are on two different levels of thought here. Hot dogs are not a religion, and we are not forced to like them. You can attempt to minimize my comment on polls but the data or non data against them all still stands. I just picked an imaginary poll, but I think you know what my point was, and no I don't think we are on different "levels" of thought here. Anyone who reads this will see I was referring to how the people there are basically told what to do or else. I don't see anything to contradict that. 23 minutes ago, other one said: Palestinians are Islamic and are forced to follow Mohammad and if they don't terrible things happen to them (by their own people) That is the life of Islam. And if you are going to exist around or among them, one should really learn what makes them click. Yep, so we agree here. So you would kill them all to get a few of the enemy? 24 minutes ago, other one said: I have not been saying all the people of Gaza should be killed, only the members of Hamas who are sworn to the death to drive the Jews out of Israel. They are actually rewarded when they die for the effort of trying to do so. Because of that situation, the only recourse that Israel has is to either convert them to Christianity or do them in, or there will never be peace in Israel. Israel is quite capable of doing this and if the people really want to rid of Hamas they should help Israel get the job done. You DID say that earlier in this thread. You basically said that of innocents had to die to kill the enemy you would do it. Israel is not Christian, so I don't see them converting anyone to Christianity. Yes there are Christians IN Israel who are expressly there to try and convert, but to my knowledge that isn't outside of Israel. Could be though. I don't think this was your intention but you seem to be saying that of they are not Christian they die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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