warrior12 Posted March 5 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,428 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, Ray12614 said: Exactly . . . that question is the elephant hidden in the corner of the room. The parable of the Sower comes to mind. Same seed sown on all types of ground . . . the real issue is the ground . . . So . . . what kind of ground is the ground of our hearts ? That answer determines how much the gospel sown in us produces fruit (fruit of the Spirit) or not. Every disciple (Judas excluded) that Jesus called to follow Him in the gospels was changed on the inside, and as a result their outward lives changed as well. Why should we think we are any different today? Ray . . . I agree that change has to be noticeable, but to whom though. Pretense can be hidden for a long time till revelation of ill be revealed. The noticeable change has to be to the believer himself and with maturity in the different aspects of the walk, most habits if not all would dissipate. To the outside observer, legalism can set in as expectation and standards to conform to his ways [observer] can be misinterpreted even in trivial matters . So the onus is on the believer to examine himself with truthfulness as he really cannot lie to himself and if that is the case then he is his judge. A case in mind, we have seen many respected preachers fall, meanwhile before the fall, all the outward things were in place. Not saying that repentance and the works cannot restore those traits, but outward signs can be misleading too. Though, I have to agree that it still has to be displayed as natural fruits of the new birth with believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted March 5 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.76 Reputation: 13,562 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 5 16 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: I guess that depends on how you define openly sinning. Scripture says that if we DON'T DO the good we know we should, that is also sin. Therefore to not commit intentional sin BUT to also not do good deeds IS sin. So I guess to clarify my original statement, what I see from believers is not intentional sin, although I certainly see that, but mostly the significant LACK of good deeds more then unbelievers do. If that doesn't make sense, let me know. What good deeds would these be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted March 5 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,039 Content Per Day: 1.62 Reputation: 589 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5 3 minutes ago, Starise said: What good deeds would these be? Things like helping a neighbor who is in need, volunteering at the homeless shelter or soup kitchen, buying the homeless person lunch and offering to help them find work, spending time with elderly at the nursing home who have no family, adopting animals from a kill shelter, spending time with family instead of Facebook or work buddies, witnessing to coworkers or boss, etc. I could go on, but the point is I would bet EVERY SINGLE one of us is presented with opportunities to do good every day, yet I'll bet NONE of us actually look for an opportunity or take advantage of an opportunity every single day. If we are living for Christ, then every moment of every day, Jesus and other people will always be more important than ourselves. Yet I've never met a single Christian who will ALWAYS put others in front of themselves. Not trying to rant or start any arguments, just saying we ALL sin every day in things we DON'T do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted March 5 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.76 Reputation: 13,562 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 5 1 minute ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: Things like helping a neighbor who is in need, volunteering at the homeless shelter or soup kitchen, buying the homeless person lunch and offering to help them find work, spending time with elderly at the nursing home who have no family, adopting animals from a kill shelter, spending time with family instead of Facebook or work buddies, witnessing to coworkers or boss, etc. I could go on, but the point is I would bet EVERY SINGLE one of us is presented with opportunities to do good every day, yet I'll bet NONE of us actually look for an opportunity or take advantage of an opportunity every single day. If we are living for Christ, then every moment of every day, Jesus and other people will always be more important than ourselves. Yet I've never met a single Christian who will ALWAYS put others in front of themselves. Not trying to rant or start any arguments, just saying we ALL sin every day in things we DON'T do. I believe God shows us the opportunities. I think you made a blanket statement there. Real Christians mature in the Lord live as Christ wants them to live. If the majority of believers always do the things you say we would all be terrible at what we do. The glass really is more full than empty IMO. I’ve been around lots of believers who are wonderful daily examples. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted March 5 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,129 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,857 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5 27 minutes ago, Starise said: What good deeds would these be? Apparently not doing these good deeds will send you to hell Quote Matt 25:41-46 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' 45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." ESV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted March 5 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 201 Topics Per Day: 0.37 Content Count: 3,429 Content Per Day: 6.23 Reputation: 2,283 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted March 5 18 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: I agree with you 100%, but this begs the question. Should we doubt our salvation if we see no significant differences between us and unbelievers? If the only real difference is inside while the outside seems unchanged, did the inside REALLY change? And that same thing is addressed by both Paul and James - faith will produce something. If a seed is alive and growing, it will at least break thought the dirt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted March 5 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.76 Reputation: 13,562 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, other one said: Apparently not doing these good deeds will send you to hell Then atheists will be in heaven according to your statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted March 5 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,039 Content Per Day: 1.62 Reputation: 589 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, other one said: Apparently not doing these good deeds will send you to hell That's a bit extreme. I didn't say that. I only said that most Christians don't go out of their way to do good deeds and so most are indistinguishable from unbelievers. We are supposed to be the salt of the Earth and the light of the world, but most blend in with the world and you can't pick most out of a crowd by their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted March 5 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,039 Content Per Day: 1.62 Reputation: 589 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, Vine Abider said: And that same thing is addressed by both Paul and James - faith will produce something. If a seed is alive and growing, it will at least break thought the dirt! AMEN. Jesus used a parable to say that some seed will yield 30, 60, or 100 fold. I think this shows that ALL Christians will be fruitful, although to varying degrees. Although 1 Corinthians 3 shows the possibility of a believer who IS SAVED but yielded NOTHING. So that's a bit of a pickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted March 5 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,138 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,092 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5 (edited) 20 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: That's a bit extreme. I didn't say that. I only said that most Christians don't go out of their way to do good deeds and so most are indistinguishable from unbelievers. We are supposed to be the salt of the Earth and the light of the world, but most blend in with the world and you can't pick most out of a crowd by their actions. You pass judgment on that which you possibly can't know; that being "most" Christians." In order for you to righteously and properly judge most Christians, then you would need to be familiar with all Christians. You are certainly not. That's the trap of this flesh I pointed out earlier. Judge yourself --- which is to say, examine yourself --- for that is entirely scriptural and commendable. Refrain from passing judgment measured by ignorance and even insolence, remembering the admonition not to curse a servant to their Master. Edited March 5 by Marathoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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