Vine Abider Posted March 7 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 207 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,506 Content Per Day: 6.12 Reputation: 2,354 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted March 7 This devotional today was a fresh revealing to me, that is, seeing how these two verses (2 Cor 5:16 & 17) go together. I pretty much always read verse 16 by itself, not realizing that verse 17 immediately goes to the believer/church! So how do we know the living Christ now? In Spirit! And where is His Spirit? He indwells His believers - so we can know Him in and through one another! (the other scriptural references given are rich in this meaning too!) The New Knowing of Christ "Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer." 2 Corinthians 5:16 The deep significance that Paul opens up here is a new kind of knowing of Christ in contrast to his old knowing of Christ. What is this new kind of knowing of Christ? The obvious answer is in 2 Corinthians 5:17, where Christ is presented in an enlarged way by Paul. He no longer considers Christ merely alone, by Himself. He says, "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation." Here Christ is not just an individual man, but a corporate man. Other persons are "in Him." So the new knowing of Christ is knowing Him as the church (Eph. 5:29-30). It is the knowing of Him according to 1 Corinthians 12:12, where both the one Body and the many members form one whole Christ! It is also the same knowing of Him found in Paul's prayer for the believers in Ephesians 1:17-23. There, the full knowledge of God is to know Christ as the Head of His Body, the church, which is described as being "the fullness of the One who fills all in all." It is the church as Christ which is the new kind of knowing of Christ in 2 Corinthians 5:16. The church described as "the new man" in Colossians 3:10-11 is also the new kind of knowing of Christ. The church as the new man of the new creation is the realm where Christ is all and in all. It is also the realm where old things have passed away and all things have become new! In this realm we know each other as members of Christ. We no longer regard or know each other according to the differences and distinctions of the old creation (Gal. 3:27-28). In the new creation we always prefer Christ in one another. (from The Supplied Life, by B. Freeman) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted March 7 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,263 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,529 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted March 7 2 hours ago, Vine Abider said: This devotional today was a fresh revealing to me, that is, seeing how these two verses (2 Cor 5:16 & 17) go together. I pretty much always read verse 16 by itself, not realizing that verse 17 immediately goes to the believer/church! So how do we know the living Christ now? In Spirit! And where is His Spirit? He indwells His believers - so we can know Him in and through one another! (the other scriptural references given are rich in this meaning too!) The New Knowing of Christ "Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer." 2 Corinthians 5:16 The deep significance that Paul opens up here is a new kind of knowing of Christ in contrast to his old knowing of Christ. What is this new kind of knowing of Christ? The obvious answer is in 2 Corinthians 5:17, where Christ is presented in an enlarged way by Paul. He no longer considers Christ merely alone, by Himself. He says, "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation." Here Christ is not just an individual man, but a corporate man. Other persons are "in Him." So the new knowing of Christ is knowing Him as the church (Eph. 5:29-30). It is the knowing of Him according to 1 Corinthians 12:12, where both the one Body and the many members form one whole Christ! It is also the same knowing of Him found in Paul's prayer for the believers in Ephesians 1:17-23. There, the full knowledge of God is to know Christ as the Head of His Body, the church, which is described as being "the fullness of the One who fills all in all." It is the church as Christ which is the new kind of knowing of Christ in 2 Corinthians 5:16. The church described as "the new man" in Colossians 3:10-11 is also the new kind of knowing of Christ. The church as the new man of the new creation is the realm where Christ is all and in all. It is also the realm where old things have passed away and all things have become new! In this realm we know each other as members of Christ. We no longer regard or know each other according to the differences and distinctions of the old creation (Gal. 3:27-28). In the new creation we always prefer Christ in one another. (from The Supplied Life, by B. Freeman) Hi VA, Yes a `corporate MAN,` `Christ is Head of HIS body,` `the New Man.` 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted March 7 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,077 Content Per Day: 3.29 Reputation: 1,469 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Vine Abider said: This devotional today was a fresh revealing to me, that is, seeing how these two verses (2 Cor 5:16 & 17) go together. I pretty much always read verse 16 by itself, not realizing that verse 17 immediately goes to the believer/church! So how do we know the living Christ now? In Spirit! And where is His Spirit? He indwells His believers - so we can know Him in and through one another! (the other scriptural references given are rich in this meaning too!) The New Knowing of Christ "Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer." 2 Corinthians 5:16 The deep significance that Paul opens up here is a new kind of knowing of Christ in contrast to his old knowing of Christ. What is this new kind of knowing of Christ? The obvious answer is in 2 Corinthians 5:17, where Christ is presented in an enlarged way by Paul. He no longer considers Christ merely alone, by Himself. He says, "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation." Here Christ is not just an individual man, but a corporate man. Other persons are "in Him." So the new knowing of Christ is knowing Him as the church (Eph. 5:29-30). It is the knowing of Him according to 1 Corinthians 12:12, where both the one Body and the many members form one whole Christ! It is also the same knowing of Him found in Paul's prayer for the believers in Ephesians 1:17-23. There, the full knowledge of God is to know Christ as the Head of His Body, the church, which is described as being "the fullness of the One who fills all in all." It is the church as Christ which is the new kind of knowing of Christ in 2 Corinthians 5:16. The church described as "the new man" in Colossians 3:10-11 is also the new kind of knowing of Christ. The church as the new man of the new creation is the realm where Christ is all and in all. It is also the realm where old things have passed away and all things have become new! In this realm we know each other as members of Christ. We no longer regard or know each other according to the differences and distinctions of the old creation (Gal. 3:27-28). In the new creation we always prefer Christ in one another. (from The Supplied Life, by B. Freeman) If only this was taught more often. Christianity has adopted the Old Testament, just with new Characters and new Laws. But in John Chapter 4 our Lord instituted a New Economy - having the human spirit as the Holy of Holies (Jn.4:24). And truly, the Body of Christ is mystical. His body was flesh and blood. Eve is the grand Type of the Church, so we are bone of His bones and flesh of His flesh. Spirits do not have flesh and bone (Lk.24:48) so Christ's Body is PHYSICAL. But in John 2 Christ said that His Body was the Temple. And the Temple is the House of God. 1st Peter 2:4 says that the House of God is SPIRITUAL. And then God says that we must look up for Christ's appearing - and love it. But at the Bema, if you are an Overcomer, you will be assigned a city, or cities (Lk.19:17-19) which will put you on the other end of the earth, for Christ will live in Jerusalem. So, the above teaching is decisive to the understanding of what, who and WHERE we are IN Christ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted March 7 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,263 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,529 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, AdHoc said: If only this was taught more often. Christianity has adopted the Old Testament, just with new Characters and new Laws. But in John Chapter 4 our Lord instituted a New Economy - having the human spirit as the Holy of Holies (Jn.4:24). And truly, the Body of Christ is mystical. His body was flesh and blood. Eve is the grand Type of the Church, so we are bone of His bones and flesh of His flesh. Spirits do not have flesh and bone (Lk.24:48) so Christ's Body is PHYSICAL. But in John 2 Christ said that His Body was the Temple. And the Temple is the House of God. 1st Peter 2:4 says that the House of God is SPIRITUAL. And then God says that we must look up for Christ's appearing - and love it. But at the Bema, if you are an Overcomer, you will be assigned a city, or cities (Lk.19:17-19) which will put you on the other end of the earth, for Christ will live in Jerusalem. So, the above teaching is decisive to the understanding of what, who and WHERE we are IN Christ. Hi Ad Hoc, here we go again..... That is NOT what I read concerning the destiny and purpose of the Body of Christ. We have a heavenly calling, inheritance and hope. It is not just up there to come down, but we are to be with the Lord in glory forever as He has been given the rulership - `far above all....not only in this age and also in that which is to come.` (Eph. 1:21) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted March 7 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,077 Content Per Day: 3.29 Reputation: 1,469 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7 10 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Ad Hoc, here we go again..... That is NOT what I read concerning the destiny and purpose of the Body of Christ. We have a heavenly calling, inheritance and hope. It is not just up there to come down, but we are to be with the Lord in glory forever as He has been given the rulership - `far above all....not only in this age and also in that which is to come.` (Eph. 1:21) I guess so. Why not forego a rebuttal and the posting will die naturally. The bulk of Christianity think they're going to heaven anyway. You win by numbers. We both are settled in our understanding and are not about to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted March 7 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,263 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,529 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, AdHoc said: I guess so. Why not forego a rebuttal and the posting will die naturally. The bulk of Christianity think they're going to heaven anyway. You win by numbers. We both are settled in our understanding and are not about to change. True, but the `Dominionists` have taken hold in most parts of Christianity, (man`s organizations). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted March 8 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.30 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 6.83 Reputation: 1,802 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Share Posted March 8 23 hours ago, Vine Abider said: This devotional today was a fresh revealing to me, that is, seeing how these two verses (2 Cor 5:16 & 17) go together. I pretty much always read verse 16 by itself, not realizing that verse 17 immediately goes to the believer/church! So how do we know the living Christ now? In Spirit! And where is His Spirit? He indwells His believers - so we can know Him in and through one another! (the other scriptural references given are rich in this meaning too!) Ephesians 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted March 8 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 207 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,506 Content Per Day: 6.12 Reputation: 2,354 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted March 8 @Mr. M @Marilyn C @AdHoc Today's devotional, from the source I quoted in the OP, continued with even more clarity I thought. It went on to delve into the next verse more (2 Cor 5:17). The first line in the second paragraph jumped out at me: "Christ as our relationship with each other is what the church is." Upon reading that I asked myself, "If this isn't what the church is (Christ), then what is it!?" People have all kinds of definitions for what the church is, but in its essence, it is not an organization, it is an organism! Organisms have a life, and the church has the life of Christ! Therefore, we are called, in our relationships with each other, to exhibit Christ to one another . . . not forms or rules or whatever, but Christ Himself, living in and through us! This is the wonderful new covenant He has brought us into! HALLELUJAH!!! What the church is "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17 To say "old things have passed away" and "all things have become new" means that old relationships have passed away and all things in our relationships with each other have become new. We have all been newly created together in Christ as one new man, and have all been reconciled in one Body to God by the cross (Eph. 2:15-16). Christ as our relationship with each other is what the church is. In other words, the church is just Christ between us. If Christ is not our mutual fellowship, then the reality of the church is lost. So to know the church is to know Christ as our relationship with each other. It is not a matter of knowing each other in a natural way, according to race or background. Neither is it formally joining a church to become a member. No. We are joined to the Lord in one Body, and His relationship with all His members becomes our relationship with every member. So we freely receive one another the way Christ received us (Rom. 15:7). This is what the church is. The depths and intimacy of Christ as our relationship with one another can be seen in Paul's relationship with the Philippians. In Philippians 1:8 we read, "For God is my witness, how greatly I long for you all with the inward parts of Jesus Christ." Here Paul so identifies his feelings with the Lord's that he is not merely saying, "I am burdened for you" or "I am thinking of you." The Lord Himself with His inward parts became Paul's relationship with the Philippians. Paul was a man who embodied the Lord's own feelings and intimate care for the saints. This demonstrates the extent to which Christ becomes our relationship with one another. My relationship with you and your relationship with me is Christ. How precious this is. The more there is an increase of Christ in us, the more there will be an increase of Christ in our relationships. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted March 8 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,263 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,529 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted March 8 Yes, a spiritual organism with each one set where God has us in the body. `But now God has set the members, each one of them in the body just as He pleased.` (1 Cor. 12: 18) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted March 10 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,077 Content Per Day: 3.29 Reputation: 1,469 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10 On 3/8/2024 at 10:06 PM, Vine Abider said: @Mr. M @Marilyn C @AdHoc Today's devotional, from the source I quoted in the OP, continued with even more clarity I thought. It went on to delve into the next verse more (2 Cor 5:17). The first line in the second paragraph jumped out at me: "Christ as our relationship with each other is what the church is." Upon reading that I asked myself, "If this isn't what the church is (Christ), then what is it!?" People have all kinds of definitions for what the church is, but in its essence, it is not an organization, it is an organism! Organisms have a life, and the church has the life of Christ! Therefore, we are called, in our relationships with each other, to exhibit Christ to one another . . . not forms or rules or whatever, but Christ Himself, living in and through us! This is the wonderful new covenant He has brought us into! HALLELUJAH!!! What the church is "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17 To say "old things have passed away" and "all things have become new" means that old relationships have passed away and all things in our relationships with each other have become new. We have all been newly created together in Christ as one new man, and have all been reconciled in one Body to God by the cross (Eph. 2:15-16). Christ as our relationship with each other is what the church is. In other words, the church is just Christ between us. If Christ is not our mutual fellowship, then the reality of the church is lost. So to know the church is to know Christ as our relationship with each other. It is not a matter of knowing each other in a natural way, according to race or background. Neither is it formally joining a church to become a member. No. We are joined to the Lord in one Body, and His relationship with all His members becomes our relationship with every member. So we freely receive one another the way Christ received us (Rom. 15:7). This is what the church is. The depths and intimacy of Christ as our relationship with one another can be seen in Paul's relationship with the Philippians. In Philippians 1:8 we read, "For God is my witness, how greatly I long for you all with the inward parts of Jesus Christ." Here Paul so identifies his feelings with the Lord's that he is not merely saying, "I am burdened for you" or "I am thinking of you." The Lord Himself with His inward parts became Paul's relationship with the Philippians. Paul was a man who embodied the Lord's own feelings and intimate care for the saints. This demonstrates the extent to which Christ becomes our relationship with one another. My relationship with you and your relationship with me is Christ. How precious this is. The more there is an increase of Christ in us, the more there will be an increase of Christ in our relationships. On 3/8/2024 at 11:10 PM, Marilyn C said: Yes, a spiritual organism with each one set where God has us in the body. `But now God has set the members, each one of them in the body just as He pleased.` (1 Cor. 12: 18) Our relationship with Christ is FOUR-FOLD, and each one is structured differently. - We are His BODY. This is a PHYSICAL relationship as we are "MEMBER in Particular". In John 2 His BODY would be raised on the third day. The BODY suffers loss and is lost at death. The solution for dead men is RESURRECTION - the "gates of Hades" being opened to complete the Church (Matt.16:16-18) - We are His BRIDE. Eve is the type. She came out of Adam as he slept. We came out of Christ as He slept (Jn.12:24). This is a PHYSICAL relationship as "we are bones of His bones" and it is "not good for a MAN to be alone" - We are God's Temple, God's HOUSE. This is a SPIRITUAL relationship because He entered us by the SPIRIT (Jn.20:22, 2nd Pet.2:4) - In our WORSHIP we are in a SPIRITUAL relationship because God is a SPIRIT (Jn.4:24) and he who is joined to the Lord is ONE SPIRIT (1st Cor.6:17) In this way we satisfy God - Who is a Spirit, and we satisfy Christ Who took the form of a MAN. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts