I have trouble with this verse

[Starise]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

I can only state that repentance was not a chore nor struggle, that instead I was turned about solely by God through the Holy Spirit instantly without even so much as immediate awareness. What I was I was not any  longer. I was new, born again, different. Not of my own effort whatsoever.

I do not doubt you.

God comes at us in all kinds of ways.

[faithfull-prophet4040]

 

 Rev - 22:12 Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 

James 2:26 - As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Both verses came after Jesus, one written by John the apostle later written in revalation literally  spoken by Jesus,  the other spoken from one of his other apostles “James”...

So how can you say works don’t matter? Don’t get me wrong, the Bible doesn’t lie, we are saved through faith and through Christ and he did die for our sins giving us his righteousness, if we turn to him. I also get that if we are in Christ, and he in us we are repented already, because we are clean, and reborn and usually will dislike sin... But I don’t like false Christian’s who say just because they accept Christ that they can sin, and get away with it because  here’s another verse to prove that theory wrong...

“Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. I don’t know where in the Bible it says that but I know it says it.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

8 hours ago, faithfull-prophet4040 said:

I still believe we should do our best to not sin though

I encourage you to re read all the verses quoted, you will likely not see them in the way I have translated them, anywhere else. I believe that Paul's words have been twisted, [2 Peter 3:15-16] what I did is untwist them, namely the end of Romans 7.

Paul never says that we get into heaven for just belief. Paul never says that we will always struggle against sin, such a notion is, I believe, an evil twisting of the end of Romans 7.

Paul says we receive the Spirit for free and therefore must work,
that is what Ephesians 2:8-10 is about, not entrance into heaven.

Also the book of Galatians should come after Ephesians.

We are equipped with the Holy Spirit to do our best against known sin.
It would be an insult to not use the fruits of the Spirit given to us freely.

By sowing to the Spirit we reap everlasting life.
Galatians 6:7-9

A born again child of God is a person who is led by the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:14

 

 

 

 

 

[Starise]

33 minutes ago, faithfull-prophet4040 said:

So how can you say works don’t matter?

When a person get's saved, works are not involved.

After they are saved they are a new person, so if they do bad things they will feel the nudge to stop and repent. The default position of a born again believer is good works.If it isn't, something is wrong.

[Neighbor]

34 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

you will likely not see them in the way I have translated them, anywhere else

Okay, that speaks volumes, I'll heed that alert. Thanks.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

4 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Okay, that speaks volumes, I'll heed that alert. Thanks.

For I know this, that after my departure shall grievous wolves enter in among you,
not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things,
to draw away disciples after them.

Acts 20:29

there shall be false teachers among you,
who secretly shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord
that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And through greed shall they with feigned words
make merchandise of you

2 Peter 2:1-3

And account that the patience of our Lord is salvation;
even as our beloved brother Paul... has written to you
As also in all his letters speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable twist,
as they do the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

You therefore, dear one, seeing that you know such things,
beware, lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked,
fall from your own steadfastness.

But grow in grace,
and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 3:15-18

 

Be not deceived, God is not mocked.
For whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.
He that sows to his flesh, shall of the flesh reap corruption.
He that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
And let us not be weary in well doing, for in due time we shall reap,
if we faint not.

Galatians 6:7-9

These things I would that thou constantly affirm
that they which have believed should be careful
to maintain good works.

Titus 3:8

 

All those are accepted normal translations.
Clearly we were warned that many wolves would come in
and that Paul's words would be twisted.

 

 

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, faithfull-prophet4040 said:

So how can you say works don’t matter

Works do not matter. Yet works are accounted for as well as rewarded by our Lord and savior at no less than the Bema Judgement seat.

Salvation is by the work of God ( Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) worked out and known to God from before the beginning.

It is acted out through Yeshua's willing sacrifice made in obedience of His Father, and is made known through the specific call  made  by  the Holy Spirit to all that are foreknown and predestined  be saved out from destruction.

Salvation is God's mercy everlasting upon those God has so chosen.

 

[luigi]

On 4/1/2024 at 2:22 AM, faithfull-prophet4040 said:

The Bible says for we are saved by faith and not by our own works, and true I do believe we are saved by faith, but the Bible also says we must repent and turn from our wicked ways, then put our faith in Christ Jesus to saved. So how can it say we are not saved by works when we have to stop sinning, and we have to repent. Yes I will be the one to say it’s usually done through God putting that spark of light in our hearts, and showing us that sin is wrong not that we don’t already know that sin is wrong, but as men and women we sometimes get lost in sin and sometimes can’t see the wrong we do with a clear mind. Still we do have to do work… For example a drug addiction, it’s hard to come off of drugs, trust me I know, and that takes work, I can’t say I did it alone because without the father I never could have gotten off of drugs, but I still did, and it took work, and if I didn’t get of the drugs I would not have been saved I wouldn’t have been a repented man, and I would still be the the same drug addicted alcoholic cussing pridefull man I was then. Thankfully God put that spark in my heart and helped me through the suffering aka WORK…  I just don’t like it when people seem to think that if they accept Jesus as there lord and savior that it’s ok to sin, yes everybody sins at sometime or another, but drugs drinking smoking lust etc… are not aloud. You will not be saved just by faith without putting in the work to stop, and avoid them things

And I mean no disrespect to the Bible verse nor am I saying what it says is false, I just have a hard time agreeing with it, and was hoping some other Christian’s could shed some light on the subject.

If you believe in God, you then believe in Love, as God is love (1 John 4:8 & 16).  In Matthew 25: 31-40, when the Lord returns and separates His sheep from the goats; many of His sheep will not have recognized that their faith in love for others, is what constitutes true faith in Christ. 

On the other hand, we see in Matthew 7:21-23, many individuals who proclaim having done many good works, to whom the Lord will proclaim never having known them. This would be the same as saying these individuals never having known love for others, as the Lord is love.

I therefore see the individuals in Matthew 25:34-40, who did good works for others, did so for the love from their hearts, while the individuals works in Matthew 7:21-23, did so for ulterior motives, other than love for their neighbor.

So while love for others does manifest itself as works; it is not necessarily the works themselves one does for others, but what is in your heart when doing whatever you do.

 

[Know Jah]

I agree with the post that Faith and works go hand in hand. The actions we manifest proves our faith. Faith with no action = no faith at all. 

[faithfull-prophet4040]

I am the one who made the post, and I made a comment yesterday, and wanted to also add to that last comment. I do fully believe that if you have turned to God Almighty and to his son Jesus Christ, and are still in the midst of repentance wethor it be years long repentance or a week long, it is ok if your still a sinner during that time, you can be forgiven no matter what. Jesus said a man may be forgiven not “7 times but 77 times” meaning an unlimited amount of times basically, and even after turning to God and Christ yet still a man can stilL be forgiven without full repentance, but I don’t agree that a man or woman can make it through heavens gates without being fully repented of there sins. Everyone will always have some sin in there life, yes this is true, but I mean the turning away from there former sins, and the sins that actually mean something I don’t mean driving in a car and letting exhaust fumes in the air, I don’t mean watching tv or using video game technology, I mean sins like drug, use and cigarettes, gang activity, murder all different a types of lust need to be turned away from before a man or woman can enter the kingdom of heaven OTHERWISE heaven would be filled with sinners greedy lust filled pressure seeking sinners, and that’s not the case heavens perfect and filled with the righteous 😇.