The gathering of the Lords people

[RdJ]

5 hours ago, luigi said:

Good morning Rdj,

I don't know if all of the faith in Christ who believe in love, truth, and justice, get killed during the beasts 42 month reign, but it certainly is the vast majority, with only a remnant indicated coming away with their skins following the beasts 42  month reign. These remnant believing survivors (including a remnant of full blood Jews), are whom the beast, the false prophet and Satan will come to make war against in Armageddon (Revelation 16). This event occurs after the Lord has gathered these remnant believers from the four corners/winds of the earth, bringing them to the Middle East which will earlier have been desolated by the Abomination of Desolation. Revelation 14 (in retrospect to following chapters of Revelation), indicates the first harvest of the earth being they who believe in love, truth, and justice. I believe these faithful first harvest are those killed in Armageddon. The second harvest is of the nonbelieving, who are unloving, lying, and unjust, who are they in Revelation 16, who experience all of Gods wrath. 

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 12 is when Israel gets a place in the desert for 3,5 years and then he goes after the christians living elsewhere. I assume he lets all Israelites go to Israel and makes false peace there and then he attacks them when they're all in one place. And after that in Revelation 14 Jesus stands on the mount of Olive with the 144000 and then I don't understand it anymore. Still some get killed when He stands on the mount of Olive? (Rev 14:13)

[luigi]

2 hours ago, RdJ said:

Why would the remnant survivors cry over Him like a first born if they are not from Israel? It may be that also gentile believers will live there, cause He got rid of the middle wall and every believer who died is in Jerusalem that comes down from heaven I suppose or they follow Him, but I don't see why someone who converts from the gentiles would weep over Him as a first born and why does it say everyone from the tribe of .. and their women. Makes no sense if you make that about spiritual Israel. What tribe are they from then?

You are 100% correct about those in the land of Israel mourning when they realize who the Lord their ancestors crucified is, which occurs when the Middle East is being desolated by the Abomination of desolation.

But please context! We were discussing Isaiah 11 and 12, which includes the whole body of Christ (all who believe in Christs Way, both full blood and non full blood Jews), and you went to Zechariah 12:10, without posting the reference, as if this were what I what I was making reference to.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 

[luigi]

2 hours ago, RdJ said:

Revelation 12 is when Israel gets a place in the desert for 3,5 years and then he goes after the christians living elsewhere. I assume he lets all Israelites go to Israel and makes false peace there and then he attacks them when they're all in one place. And after that in Revelation 14 Jesus stands on the mount of Olive with the 144000 and then I don't understand it anymore. Still some get killed when He stands on the mount of Olive? (Rev 14:13)

The time, times, and half a time (1,260 days) in Revelation 12:6 & 14, are the same (1) time, (2) times, and (1/2) half time, totaling 3.5 times event found in Daniel 7:25 and 12:7, which are about all the saints (both full blooded Jews and non full blooded Jews) during these end times. 

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

 

[farouk]

On 4/24/2024 at 4:13 PM, TheBlade said:

Yeah if you think about what God told Abraham, if he could count the stars  "And the LORD brought Abram outside [his tent into the night] and said, “Look now toward the heavens and count the stars—if you are able to count them.” Then He said to him, “

They say what we can see is about 6000-8000.  Hmm looks bad for all us huh haha..sorry. Yet what they also say" If you were to look outside on a clear night, you could see as many as 6,000 stars over your head. That seems like a lot, but it's just a tiny fraction of the total number of stars in outer space. According to astronomers, there are approximately 200 billion trillion stars in our observable universe." Yeah God said the stars.. no one can count them way to many.

As He showed me this tiny tree with so many branches said "Show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". Then as its written, as Isaac was we are the Children of promise. 

He said to them "‘When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress or mistreat him. But the stranger who resides with you shall be to you like someone native-born among you; and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God." He has not changed.. All that are grafted in no one but no one can tell what branch was original vs grafted in. They are the same to GOD. 

@TheBlade The sheer arithmetic should make us feel humble and small. Yet the wonder also is that in Christ we are loved individually...............

[RdJ]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

You are 100% correct about those in the land of Israel mourning when they realize who the Lord their ancestors crucified is, which occurs when the Middle East is being desolated by the Abomination of desolation.

But please context! We were discussing Isaiah 11 and 12, which includes the whole body of Christ (all who believe in Christs Way, both full blood and non full blood Jews), and you went to Zechariah 12:10, without posting the reference, as if this were what I what I was making reference to.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 

Ooh LOL sorry, well it both ends on iah. That must be why I switched em.

[JohnD]

On 4/26/2024 at 6:33 AM, luigi said:

I suspect you are aware that during the first gathering of Israel from Egypt, that included among the Exodus were many others who were not physically born Jews, who were assimilated into the new nation to be. As such, how do you explain these non born of Jacob, Israelites, (including Moses' wife), being of Abraham?

Only that it makes my case.

Ruth was also not of A I J but included in Israel.

[luigi]

4 hours ago, JohnD said:

Only that it makes my case.

Ruth was also not of A I J but included in Israel.

One could therefore also say of the 10 tribes who have been assimilated into the entire world.

[tatwo]

On 4/24/2024 at 7:21 AM, luigi said:

As a true Jew according to Paul is one who is inwardly so in their heart, and not due to heredity (Romans 2:28-29);--the formation of the land of Israel in 1948 that many individuals claim to be the gathering of the Lords people would then be inaccurate.

 

On 4/24/2024 at 7:21 AM, luigi said:

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Greetings Luigi…

 This is a difficult “row to hoe” on this website…that is largely due to the reasoning of the “sons of Greece” who love the praise of men.

I intently read the entire forum…this “subject” is also of great interest to me. I can see that you maintained you’re “thought” all the way through to this point…nice job it is fresh and inspiring. You are sharing what you believe is important and necessary…the “sons of God – who love to give praise to God” understand…I assure you.

“For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly”…Spoken by one who once considered himself a “Jew outwardly”…no? The book of Romans is likely a letter to the family of God in Rome which boasted a constituency of perhaps all known nations and tribes at some point? Plainly stated…Paul changes the definition of what it means to be “Jew”…from “outwardly” or that which is observable by the eye…that which is “natural and fleshly”…to something else…

He follows that up with a contrasting reference to the fleshly Jew’s circumcision…“nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh” in reference to the “male genitalia”…here Paul is changing the definition of “circumcision” as well.

Paul a “circumcised Jew”…himself…is saying…A “Jew” is no longer a natural, physical, fleshly observable being…and it is for that reason that he continues on to say…“circumcision”…is also no longer of the natural, physical, fleshly observable being either.

Something has changed according to Brother Paul…if this change is not grasped; understood, revealed to ones spirit by the Lord Yahshua…it will remain a mystery to those whose eyes remain “veiled.”

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

Continuing on...

 “But he is a Jew who is one inwardly” An unmistakable and profound change has occurred here according to Paul. “Flesh, blood, and natural lineage…i.e. Israel” are no longer the determinate factor in regards to who is a “Jew” or not. This all seems so basic…elementary…yet it remains one of the greatest enigmas.

“And circumcision is that which is of the heart” this is reference to the seat of the desires, feelings, affections, passions, impulses, or mind. I liken it to the soul…that is transformed by the renewing of the mind which is the work of the Holy Spirit…which Paul addresses next.

 “by the Spirit, not by the letter” The “letter” here is in reference to the “Law” that had a requirement for the fleshly circumcision of the male genitalia…of the natural or ethnic Jew. Paul is not saying circumcision is not an element of the “inward Jew.” He is simply showing that since the “inward Jew” is no longer a “fleshly being”…there is no need for another “fleshly being to fleshly circumcise anyone as was done according to the letter.” The principal we see here is first the natural and then the spiritual.

Now…a “spiritual Jew” is one who has a “circumcised soul or heart” which Paul describes in Colossians 2 as…”you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.” He wrote…”the circumcision by Christ…of the heart…is the removal of the body of the flesh.” Christ is “Spirit.”

This goes with what Paul wrote in 1^st Corinthians 15 where it is recorded…”that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

Those who are “flesh and blood” are not eternal…and cannot enter the Kingdom of God today or ever. Those who have had the “body of flesh removed” by the Holy Spirit…are now a “spiritual member of the spiritual Kingdom of God…body of Christ” in heaven and on earth. This is because “in Christ” these are reconciled to God’s divine…pre-creation intension for them “in Christ” thus they are eternal.

Theres more...

Tatwo...:)

[luigi]

25 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Continuing on...

 “But he is a Jew who is one inwardly” An unmistakable and profound change has occurred here according to Paul. “Flesh, blood, and natural lineage…i.e. Israel” are no longer the determinate factor in regards to who is a “Jew” or not. This all seems so basic…elementary…yet it remains one of the greatest enigmas.

“And circumcision is that which is of the heart” this is reference to the seat of the desires, feelings, affections, passions, impulses, or mind. I liken it to the soul…that is transformed by the renewing of the mind which is the work of the Holy Spirit…which Paul addresses next.

 “by the Spirit, not by the letter” The “letter” here is in reference to the “Law” that had a requirement for the fleshly circumcision of the male genitalia…of the natural or ethnic Jew. Paul is not saying circumcision is not an element of the “inward Jew.” He is simply showing that since the “inward Jew” is no longer a “fleshly being”…there is no need for another “fleshly being to fleshly circumcise anyone as was done according to the letter.” The principal we see here is first the natural and then the spiritual.

Now…a “spiritual Jew” is one who has a “circumcised soul or heart” which Paul describes in Colossians 2 as…”you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.” He wrote…”the circumcision by Christ…of the heart…is the removal of the body of the flesh.” Christ is “Spirit.”

This goes with what Paul wrote in 1^st Corinthians 15 where it is recorded…”that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

Those who are “flesh and blood” are not eternal…and cannot enter the Kingdom of God today or ever. Those who have had the “body of flesh removed” by the Holy Spirit…are now a “spiritual member of the spiritual Kingdom of God…body of Christ” in heaven and on earth. This is because “in Christ” these are reconciled to God’s divine…pre-creation intension for them “in Christ” thus they are eternal.

Theres more...

Tatwo...:)

I agree with a lot of what you say Tatwo,

I also believe the Samaritan in Luke 10, and the sheep in Matthew 25:34-40, who did not recognize their loving their neighbor, as their being spiritually circumcised in their hearts.