Speaking in Tongues and Gifts of the Spirit Still available???

[Deborah_]

37 minutes ago, farouk said:

In Acts, where tongues we manifest at the beginning of the church age in the Apostolic period, the Scriptures were not yet complete. This is often forgotten by advocates of what are sometimes called tongues.

I have never understood what tongues have to do with the 'completeness' of Scripture. Paul wasn't lacking in knowledge of Scripture (he wrote over half the New Testament himself!) - yet he was able to speak in tongues and found the gift useful. (I Corinthians 14:18) Two thousand years later, I am an individual thoroughly familiar with the Scriptures (in their 'completeness') - yet I still find the gift of tongues useful! The functions of Scripture and the functions of the gifts don't overlap, so how can the former replace the latter?

[farouk]

Just now, Deborah_ said:

I have never understood what tongues have to do with the 'completeness' of Scripture. Paul wasn't lacking in knowledge of Scripture (he wrote over half the New Testament himself!) - yet he was able to speak in tongues and found the gift useful. (I Corinthians 14:18) Two thousand years later, I am an individual thoroughly familiar with the Scriptures (in their 'completeness') - yet I still find the gift of tongues useful! The functions of Scripture and the functions of the gifts don't overlap, so how can the former replace the latter?

Hi @Deborah_ Some commentators see 'when that which is perfect is come' in 1 Cor. 13 as referring to the completion of the canon of Scripture. (Clearly you think otherwise.)

[Deborah_]

8 minutes ago, farouk said:

Hi @Deborah_ Some commentators see 'when that which is perfect is come' in 1 Cor. 13 as referring to the completion of the canon of Scripture. (Clearly you think otherwise.)

I do think otherwise, but even if they're right, how would the completion of the canon of Scripture render the gifts unnecessary?

[farouk]

16 minutes ago, Deborah_ said:

I do think otherwise, but even if they're right, how would the completion of the canon of Scripture render the gifts unnecessary?

Ref. Carl Henry's 'God, Revelation and Authority'.

Edited July 10, 2024 by farouk

[First and the Last]

40 minutes ago, PATrobas said:

I agree with your excellent teaching, obvious that you have that gift, however, for your own personal study, I challenge you to find where in scripture a "baptism IN the Holy Ghost" is found. Indeed, it is not there. 

Matthew 3:11, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

Luke 3:16, "John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:"

Acts 2:1-4 is the beginning of the fulfillment of this Prophecy and is still continuing until Christ returns to ALL those who desire to have it.
 

 

[First and the Last]

46 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

As written in scripture, yes.  The question really though, is it really accounted for as the way it is supposed to be manifest.   In my whole witness in the church, I have seen attempts for it to be done, so, but never really has.  Only those who have those gifts can answer the poster question truthfully.  Their are counterfeit spirits that can comes in as angel of light , but are if fact deceitful.  This all believers has to be reminded of .  

I wholeheartedly admit it's not being done in its proper use among a lot of Churches according to 1 Corinthians 14. Check it out here: 

I want to point out, especially for large Churches, that being baptized in HS (coming in direct contact with the Divine) for the first time can be overzealous and seem chaotic. Even a True Pastor, who upholds to 1 Corinthians Chapter 14 to the letter, would have a hard time controlling the new converts. So to those that haven't experienced it or don't know it can be frightening and at first glance they would say you are mad.

1 Corinthians 14:23, "If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?" 

Underscores the importance of maintaining order and clarity in worship services to effectively witness to unbelievers and newcomers. The Scripture values the gift of tongues as a sign of receiving the Holy Spirit and a powerful aspect of personal worship. However, this verse highlights the potential confusion and misunderstanding that can arise if everyone speaks in tongues simultaneously without interpretation, especially in the presence of those unfamiliar with the practice.

To avoid this, the church emphasizes the need for balance and discernment in public worship. While speaking in tongues is encouraged as a personal and spiritual expression, it should be done in a way that promotes understanding and edification for all attendees. This means prioritizing clear communication and ensuring that any message in tongues meant for the congregation is interpreted. By doing so, the church can create an environment where both believers and unbelievers can be edified, and the gospel message can be conveyed effectively without causing confusion or appearing chaotic. This approach aligns with Paul's broader teaching in 1 Corinthians 14 on the orderly use of spiritual gifts to build up the church and reach others with the message of Christ.

I love God praying through me it gives me such peace and joy in my life. it saddens me the amount of people that either don't care or don't want to receive. 

[First and the Last]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

In Acts, where tongues we manifest at the beginning of the church age in the Apostolic period, the Scriptures were not yet complete. This is often forgotten by advocates of what are sometimes called tongues.

1 Corinthians 13:10, "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

This verse is often understood in the context of spiritual gifts and the completeness that comes with the full revelation of Jesus Christ. The "perfect" refers to the ultimate fulfillment of God's plan when Jesus returns and establishes His eternal kingdom (Not the closing of the canon of Scripture). At that time, the partial and incomplete nature of our current understanding and spiritual experiences will be surpassed by the fullness of divine revelation and the perfection of God's presence. Spiritual gifts such as prophecy, knowledge, and tongues, which are essential for edifying the church now, will no longer be necessary when believers are in the direct presence of God. This understanding aligns with the Oneness theology that emphasizes the supremacy of Jesus Christ and His ultimate revelation as the one true God manifest in the flesh. Therefore, the completion of God's redemptive work will render the temporary means of spiritual edification obsolete, as believers will experience the fullness of God's glory and perfection directly.

[First and the Last]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

Hi @Deborah_ Some commentators see 'when that which is perfect is come' in 1 Cor. 13 as referring to the completion of the canon of Scripture. (Clearly you think otherwise.)

If we go with that Interpretation I say this:

there is no Bible translation that is exactly to the letter what the original writers wrote. The original manuscripts of the Bible, often referred to as the "autographs," were written in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. These original texts have not survived, and what we have are copies of copies, with variations and minor discrepancies introduced over centuries of transmission.

Bible translators work from these ancient manuscripts and fragments, comparing different textual traditions to reconstruct the most accurate text possible. This process involves a combination of textual criticism, scholarly analysis, and linguistic expertise. As languages evolve and cultural contexts change, translations must be updated to ensure clarity and accuracy for contemporary readers.

While modern translations strive to be as faithful as possible to the original texts, differences in language structure, idiomatic expressions, and cultural references make it impossible to achieve a word-for-word equivalence. Instead, translators aim to convey the original meaning and intent of the scriptures.

Various Bible translations approach this task with different philosophies. Some, like the King James Version (KJV) or the English Standard Version (ESV), prioritize a more literal translation style. Others, like the New International Version (NIV) or the New Living Translation (NLT), aim for dynamic equivalence, seeking to convey the thought or sense of the original text in a way that is easily understood today.

Ultimately, no single translation can claim to be a perfect replication of the original manuscripts, but a range of translations can provide a fuller understanding of the biblical message when studied together.

So "when that which is perfect is come" Jesus Christ being the Eternal Word made flesh ( Canon of Scripture so to speak still being written on our hearts and in the world until He comes) is that which is Completely Truly Perfect. 

Edited July 10, 2024 by First and the Last
more clarity

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

Hi @Deborah_ Some commentators see 'when that which is perfect is come' in 1 Cor. 13 as referring to the completion of the canon of Scripture. (Clearly you think otherwise.)

There's no exegetical precedent for that peculiar interpretation, my friend. It can be argued that in the proper context, "that which is perfect" refers to a time when all of us are with the Lord in fulness. 

It's clear that the apostle refers to a time when that which is partial will end, and this can be understood to mean the end of our present estate in this world here and now. We see darkly and know only in part now (verse 12), and this is that which is partial.

I understand that cessationists are fond of interpreting this passage to mean "when the canon of Scripture is complete." That's flawed due to NT references to the scriptures which, as we understand, referred to the Law and the Prophets. 

Edited July 10, 2024 by Marathoner
Clarity

[warrior12]

41 minutes ago, First and the Last said:

I love God praying through me it gives me such peace and joy in my life. it saddens me the amount of people that either don't care or don't want to receive. 

 If or When God wants you to have a gift, he will administer it to that person.   Every person would be bestowed with the gifts given to him as stated clearly in 1 cor 4:11.   If God has given some those gifts so be it. But those who have not given the tongues, can you fault them as you seem to imply.