Bottomless Pit

[Diamond]

I had an operation once and I dreamed I was falling in a bottomless pit. It was sort of like falling into a volcano. A true bottomless pit would go all the way through the earth to the other side. Which would be in the southern hemisphere. As you fell you would be going faster and faster until you went through the center of the earth, then you would be going slower and slower until you reached the other side. Then you would be pulled back to the center again. If you do the math the time it would take to go from one side to the other is the same time it would take to orbit the earth. So everytime you came to the surface the satellite would be passing over you. 

Revelation 20  2  He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time. 

Abyss KJV Bottomless Pit. 

[FreeGrace]

21 hours ago, Diamond said:

I had an operation once and I dreamed I was falling in a bottomless pit. It was sort of like falling into a volcano. A true bottomless pit would go all the way through the earth to the other side. Which would be in the southern hemisphere. As you fell you would be going faster and faster until you went through the center of the earth, then you would be going slower and slower until you reached the other side. Then you would be pulled back to the center again. If you do the math the time it would take to go from one side to the other is the same time it would take to orbit the earth. So everytime you came to the surface the satellite would be passing over you. 

Revelation 20  2  He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time. 

Abyss KJV Bottomless Pit. 

Satan is an eternal being.  But humans who would fall into a bottomless pit would be burned up since they would have to pass through the core of the earth.  The soul would remain, but not the body.

[Diamond]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Satan is an eternal being.  But humans who would fall into a bottomless pit would be burned up since they would have to pass through the core of the earth.  The soul would remain, but not the body.

The Bible talks about a lake of fire. Some volcanoes do have fire at the bottom of them. Which of course is a liquid. Memory can still survive cremation. In a molecular computer atoms are used to store memory. All is a very powerful word in the Hebrew. If God says He will destroy all , that does mean all. 

[FreeGrace]

35 minutes ago, Diamond said:

The Bible talks about a lake of fire. Some volcanoes do have fire at the bottom of them. Which of course is a liquid. Memory can still survive cremation. In a molecular computer atoms are used to store memory. All is a very powerful word in the Hebrew. If God says He will destroy all , that does mean all. 

It will be more than a memory that survives the LOF.  If you are referring to annihilationism, Rev 20:10 refutes that idea.  The beast and false prophet are both described as human beings, and when Satan is thrown into the LOF, the beast and FP will have been in the LOF for 1,000 years.  

Rev 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Red words include beast and false prophet and Satan.  And what happens to them.

Green words indicates how long they will be tormented.

Blue words indicate a specific time period, or 24 hours.  When added to "for ever and ever" it clarifies that it is all literal.

Further, Matt 25:46 - “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

This verse refers to unbelievers.  If anyone will simply cease to exist (annihilation), then the punishment isn't "eternal".  It would be only until they cease to exist.  

So Matt 25:46 and Rev 20:10 teach eternal conscious torment.

 

[RV_Wizard]

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 But humans who would fall into a bottomless pit would be burned up since they would have to pass through the core of the earth.

That presumes that the bottomless pit exists on earth, in the the physical world.  It's entirely possible that it exists in a spiritual word, which we cannot see.  That doesn't make it less real.  the smart thing to do is to avoid it altogether.  Reach out to Jesus and ask Him to save you.  Then it won't matter what the bottomless pit is, because you will never see it.

[Diamond]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 When added to "for ever and ever" it clarifies that it is all literal.

Further, Matt 25:46 - “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

I prayed about this for understanding once. What God told me is that He is a God of absolute perfect and precise Justice. As precise as the universe is. If anyone has ever heard of the butterfly effect, the laws of physics are very precise. So nothing is going to happen to anyone that they do not deserve. This is why Jesus died for us so that we could receive eternal life. 

My question for you is: What does the second death mean in Revelation 20:14 "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."

For me in verse 10 what is translated "forever" means age or to the end of the age and the end of the ages. This is a lot different from eternal. If time ends then you either perish or enter into eternity. 

I personally believe in the shrinking universe. The universe will expand and then it will all come back together again. For science this is a theory. They have not yet discovered HOW the universe will shrink or contract. In the beginning means the beginning of time. The end means the end of time or what is eternal. 

Of course there are other theories on how the universe will end. They only agree that the universe will end and that the universe is not eternal. 

There are 40 or fifty scriptures that talk about destroy or annihilation. By comparison hell is mentioned four or five times. 

 

It’s interesting to note the emphasis on destruction or annihilation in the Bible. There are indeed many scriptures that discuss these themes. For example, verses like Deuteronomy 4:26 and Joshua 10:40 talk about utter destruction¹.

On the other hand, the concept of hell, often associated with eternal torment, is mentioned less frequently. Verses such as Matthew 10:28 and Revelation 14:10-11 discuss the idea of hell and eternal punishment²³.

This difference in frequency can lead to various interpretations and debates among scholars and theologians about the nature of the afterlife and divine justice.

[FreeGrace]

17 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

That presumes that the bottomless pit exists on earth, in the the physical world.  It's entirely possible that it exists in a spiritual word, which we cannot see.  That doesn't make it less real.  the smart thing to do is to avoid it altogether.  Reach out to Jesus and ask Him to save you.  Then it won't matter what the bottomless pit is, because you will never see it.

Why are you telling me how to avoid anything?  If you aren't fully aware that I am a born again believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, you've got some serious discernment problems.  There is no excuse for your poor assumptions.

[FreeGrace]

16 hours ago, Diamond said:

I prayed about this for understanding once. What God told me is that He is a God of absolute perfect and precise Justice. As precise as the universe is.

We don't have to pray about what the Bible already reveals.  And God doesn't reveal to individuals what isn't available to everyone.

16 hours ago, Diamond said:

If anyone has ever heard of the butterfly effect, the laws of physics are very precise. So nothing is going to happen to anyone that they do not deserve. This is why Jesus died for us so that we could receive eternal life. 

He died for everyone so that anyone who puts their trust in Him will have eternal life and not be condemned.

16 hours ago, Diamond said:

My question for you is: What does the second death mean in Revelation 20:14 "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."

The Bible teaches that there will be 2 resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.  Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15.  

The Bible also teaches that there will be 1,000 years between these 2 resurrections, per Rev 20:1-6.

So, the 'second death' is when the unbeliever's resurrected mortal body dies AGAIN when cast into the LOF after the GWT judgment.

16 hours ago, Diamond said:

For me in verse 10 what is translated "forever" means age or to the end of the age and the end of the ages. This is a lot different from eternal. If time ends then you either perish or enter into eternity.

Actually, the moment one dies, their soul enters eternity.  Whether believer or unbeliever.  Unbelievers are collected in Hades, in torments, waiting for their judgment at the GWT.  

As I pointed out, adding the specific "day and night" in Rev 20:10 means that day and night will never end.  btw, throughout Revelation, the phrase "forever and ever" is applied to God mostly, so we KNOW from that what John means by the words.  It means never ending.  There is no such thing as "end of age" when unbelievers are cast into the LOF.

And v.10 tells us specifically what will never end:  torment.  

Do you disagree with Matt 25:46 which mentions "eternal punishment"?  If God annihilates the souls of unbelievers, that would mean their consciousness ceases.  How is that eternal punishment if they have n0 more consciousness?  It isn't.

16 hours ago, Diamond said:

 I personally believe in the shrinking universe. The universe will expand and then it will all come back together again. For science this is a theory. They have not yet discovered HOW the universe will shrink or contract. In the beginning means the beginning of time. The end means the end of time or what is eternal.

Unless the Bible teaches that, why believe what science presumes?

16 hours ago, Diamond said:

 Of course there are other theories on how the universe will end. They only agree that the universe will end and that the universe is not eternal. 

Again, why believe the presumptions of science?  The Bible teaches that this current earth will be burned up and there will be a new heavens and earth.  Where would this eternal earth exist apart from a universe?  

16 hours ago, Diamond said:

There are 40 or fifty scriptures that talk about destroy or annihilation. By comparison hell is mentioned four or five times.

What will be annihilated is the mortal human body of unbelievers when cast into the LOF, which is clearly seen in Rev 20.

The bodies of all believers will be resurrected/changed into immortality.

16 hours ago, Diamond said:

 It’s interesting to note the emphasis on destruction or annihilation in the Bible. There are indeed many scriptures that discuss these themes. For example, verses like Deuteronomy 4:26 and Joshua 10:40 talk about utter destruction¹.

The question is:  utter destruction of WHAT?

16 hours ago, Diamond said:

On the other hand, the concept of hell, often associated with eternal torment, is mentioned less frequently. Verses such as Matthew 10:28 and Revelation 14:10-11 discuss the idea of hell and eternal punishment²³.

What is the point here?

16 hours ago, Diamond said:

This difference in frequency can lead to various interpretations and debates among scholars and theologians about the nature of the afterlife and divine justice.

We have everything we need to know in the Bible.  The main problem is removing individual biases and just believe what is written.

No easy task.

[tatwo]

23 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Satan is an eternal being.

Probably not FreeGrace...it was created and therefor cannot be eternal.

Tatwo...:)

[Diamond]

26 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

We don't have to pray about what the Bible already reveals.  And God doesn't reveal to individuals what isn't available to everyone.

We have to pray for understanding. We do not need man, we have to Holy Spirit to be our Guide and our Teacher. Even when we teach the Bible that is just the Holy Spirit working in and through us. 

 

29 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

He died for everyone

He died for Adam. One man sinned and one man paid the price for that sin. Today we would say he took the bullet for us. He died in our place. People do not really see how Adam represents mankind. 

 

32 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

The Bible teaches that there will be 2 resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

The unsaved are resurrected for the judgement. Body and soul were united in sin so they have to be united in judgement.  From what I understand Christian have a different sort of judgement having to do with crowns and rewards. Even though we do not deserve any of that and we owe it all to Jesus. This is why they thrown their crowns at His feet.