Theistic Evolution

[RV_Wizard]

7 hours ago, Starise said:

One version of heaven is our immediate universe meaning all the planets that make it up.

There are three definitions of heaven in the bible.

One is the immediate air above the earth.  The second is the vastness of space.  The third, Heaven, is God's eternal dwelling  where He sits on His great white throne.  The heavens and the earth are thus plural

6 hours ago, Sparks said:

The Earth started as water, for sure (this counters the Evolutionary story), but what makes you think the water was there, before, and is not just something he made right that second? 

There are three states of matter.  Gasses are without form and void.  They cool into water, which is how the early earth is described.  The last state is solid.  All solids have a melting point, and all liquids have a boiling point.  Maybe this is how the first hours of creation went, maybe not.  It's what makes sense to me.  Unlike some others, not you, I don't proclaim that what I believe is indisputable fact.  What I DO proclaim as indisputable fact is what God's word says.  We can all have opinions about things not clarified, but distorting or misquoting the Bible to validate a claim is absolutely wrong.

[Starise]

7 hours ago, enoob57 said:

God's Word is all God has said we have as truth

John 17:17 (KJV)

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Thus we give place to Scripture- the ONLY guide for thought... and no thought outside of Scripture as such for guide! Thus, God says 'In >THE< beginning' and we are left with all that has ever began follows. That is why gap theory is outside of Biblical reality because it claims a preexistence but not God's Word supported... any deviation from this reality will produce error... 

This is what God was saying here

Matthew 7:14 (KJV)

[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Psalms 119:105 (KJV)

 

[105] NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Proverbs 4:18 (KJV)

[18] But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

I do not find it accident that that is exactly The Structure of Scripture...

 

 

Agreed. We are also told to study to show ourselves approved. 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

At least one version of the gap theory says there were animals on earth prior to a planet wide destruction before man came along. The earth was then rebooted so to speak. Christians know this devastation to be the flood which came much later. We have lots of evidence for huge meteor impacts which also had lasting effects on some areas. It  looks very likely that at some point the earth was spun on it’s poles since scientist have found  tropical plants and animals in Antarctica. Any human like anomalies can be explained by the corruptions of the genetic pool by the fallen ones among other things. None of it supports an evolutionary narrative. 

Part of discovering God is through His creation. One obvious extension of that would be attempting to categorize and date things and to study cosmology. Creation leaves a trail we can look at. For one thing I am awed by the massive size of space. If we look at Jupiter we see a giant cosmic vacuum cleaner protecting earth from many potential impacts of large space debris, although the Bible tells us there will be a huge impact in the future. After thousands of years there is still a lot of mystery surrounding our moon.

We could posit lots of things about all of this. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form and void. The Bible says the earth was barren in terms of any life. Scientist are looking at the moon Titan for life because it seems to have water. NASA is following a water trail to find life, and yet the earth was a water ball without life.

In 6 days we are told God made our heavens and earth, but what about everything else? We are told God will drop the stars and make a new heaven and earth. He can just roll up everything like a sheet. My views are simply theories based on everything we know so far. The biblical narrative begins with a water ball God made, however I think that time frame before the 6 days was something.

 

[Starise]

43 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

We can all have opinions about things not clarified, but distorting or misquoting the Bible to validate a claim is absolutely wrong.

I don’t believe I’ve done that. Since you brought it up in this context, you must believe it about something I said since you are addressing me? I think we need to be extra careful before we accuse others of distortions.

[Starise]

7 hours ago, Sparks said:

The Earth started as water, for sure (this counters the Evolutionary story), but what makes you think the water was there, before, and is not just something he made right that second?  No possibility that he whipped up the water and then immediately hovered in, say, 3 seconds?  No chance He was hovering first, and then made water beneath Him?

Consider that if it really is six 24 hour days to creation, as God said, then that's pretty quick to invent it all produce the universe and everything in it.  God said he stretched out the heavens, so really I think of it the other way around, where God probably set an example of 7 days, for our benefit, because He can stand outside of time, and set the Earth in-motion exactly as He wanted it to be. 

Could be, and yet don’t you think God made parts of creation to be discoverable? To say God did it and forget everything else is intellectually disingenuous. Granted many things we can’t know, but I see the universe like tracks to discovery. There are some gifted men in these persuasions. Some of them get things wrong jumping to erroneous conclusions. If you feel ok looking at it like that, fine. Others will want a more focused answer.

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Could be, and yet don’t you think God made parts of creation to be discoverable?

I never said that.  The depths of God's creation are being discovered all the time, but this has nothing to do with our debate.  He might have 'did it and forget it' because His creation does not need tweaking, and that does not negate the discoveries that remain for us. 

I think what we see today is wreckage compared to what Eden must have been and the world before the flood, according to scripture.

1 hour ago, Starise said:

There are some gifted men in these persuasions. Some of them get things wrong jumping to erroneous conclusions. If you feel ok looking at it like that, fine. Others will want a more focused answer.

Just so long as you understand you could be one of the men jumping to conclusions about time, and the water being there before-hand, and that God needed a lot of time to create the rest of the universe, gauging what you believe is a slow design of six days for the Earth.  I think you worry about time because of some preconceived notion you have not expressed.  

God created the Earth and the Heavens, all life and animal design, the laws of nature and physics, the properties of everything all in six literal days, according to scripture; is that not impressive enough to call Him God Almighty?  Do you really think God almighty has to wait on some water to thaw by starlight to get the job done, or is restricted to in any way by the laws of nature?

[Sparks]

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

What I DO proclaim as indisputable fact is what God's word says.  We can all have opinions about things not clarified, but distorting or misquoting the Bible to validate a claim is absolutely wrong.

I am unclear here.  Are you accusing me of doing this?

[Starise]

16 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I never said that.  The depths of God's creation are being discovered all the time, but this has nothing to do with our debate.  He might have 'did it and forget it' because His creation does not need tweaking, and that does not negate the discoveries that remain for us. 

I think what we see today is wreckage compared to what Eden must have been and the world before the flood, according to scripture.

This may be a debate for you. For me it’s a discussion. He apparently tweaked the earth. Maybe part of creation is all about tweaking. And it has everything to do with this discussion.

Yes what we see today is what happens when men ignore God and try to make their own rules. 

[Sparks]

2 minutes ago, Starise said:

Yes what we see today is what happens when men ignore God and try to make their own rules. 

Clarify this.  What do you mean?

[Starise]

22 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Just so long as you understand you could be one of the men jumping to conclusions about time, and the water being there before-hand, and that God needed a lot of time to create the rest of the universe, gauging what you believe is a slow design of six days for the Earth.  I think you worry about time because of some preconceived notion you have not expressed.  

God created the Earth and the Heavens, all life and animal design, the laws of nature and physics, the properties of everything all in six literal days, according to scripture; is that not impressive enough to call Him God Almighty?  Do you really think God almighty has to wait on some water to thaw by starlight to get the job done, or is restricted to in any way by the laws of nature?

Maybe so. Regardless, I never even hinted at a 6 day slow design. I’m beginning to think you’re trying to make things up to pin me. What I think isn’t important. What actually happened is what’s more important. 
Again you’re attempting to reword what I said. I never said anything about waiting to thaw anything.

Supernatural laws are laws of God’s nature. With Him anything is possible. Yet He often chooses to use the physical laws He has in place. Why didn’t He just whip up the world instantly? I mean He can do anything. He has reasons. He chose to start out with a water ball in space. The Bible doesn’t tell us much about the sequence up to that point. If there was a big bang as many speculate, would that make random water balls? When things blow up in space water isn’t usually a component right away. In fact water is somewhat of an anomaly. They believe they found water on mars. So water is out there. God knew what He was doing.

[Starise]

8 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Clarify this.  What do you mean?

Needs no clarification. Sin.