The 2 comings of Post-Trib

[EddieM]

It should always be stated that all the pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib positions all have a Rapture. The issue of course is the timing of it. The post-trib sees a Rapture where believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This is coming number 1. Next, the Lord comes to the earth. This is coming number 2. No matter what position one holds regarding the 70th week of Dan, the Rapture is a separate coming, even if by a nano second. he meets man at two different places.

Pre-tribbers hold that the rapture is phase 1 of the Lord's coming in the air. Phase 2 is the second coming to earth. However, I don't see any reason why the pre-tribbers can't hold to 2 comings. Really this is just semantics when it comes to the the comings of Christ. Since 1 Thes calls the Rapture a coming, I personally don't have a problem with 2 comings. If you want to call them 2 phases, that's fine with me.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, EddieM said:

It should always be stated that all the pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib positions all have a Rapture. The issue of course is the timing of it. The post-trib sees a Rapture where believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This is coming number 1. Next, the Lord comes to the earth. This is coming number 2. No matter what position one holds regarding the 70th week of Dan, the Rapture is a separate coming, even if by a nano second. he meets man at two different places.

Pre-tribbers hold that the rapture is phase 1 of the Lord's coming in the air. Phase 2 is the second coming to earth. However, I don't see any reason why the pre-tribbers can't hold to 2 comings. Really this is just semantics when it comes to the the comings of Christ. Since 1 Thes calls the Rapture a coming, I personally don't have a problem with 2 comings. If you want to call them 2 phases, that's fine with me.

You missed the pretrib 2 comings of Jesus. The dead in Christ rise first......barley harvest. The alive that remained........wheat harvest.

Then you missed the first fruits coming of Jesus seen here.

Revelation 14

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Then you missed the pre wrath coming of Jesus, the gathering from heaven and earth seen here. This occurs at the 6th seal

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

There is no rapture after the wrath of God. So you are mistaken about two coming of Jesus at the end of wrath. There is only Jesus setting His feet on the Mount of Olives after wrath.

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, EddieM said:

It should always be stated that all the pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib positions all have a Rapture. The issue of course is the timing of it. The post-trib sees a Rapture where believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This is coming number 1. Next, the Lord comes to the earth. This is coming number 2. No matter what position one holds regarding the 70th week of Dan, the Rapture is a separate coming, even if by a nano second. he meets man at two different places.

Pre-tribbers hold that the rapture is phase 1 of the Lord's coming in the air. Phase 2 is the second coming to earth. However, I don't see any reason why the pre-tribbers can't hold to 2 comings. Really this is just semantics when it comes to the the comings of Christ. Since 1 Thes calls the Rapture a coming, I personally don't have a problem with 2 comings. If you want to call them 2 phases, that's fine with me.

One problem with the post tribulation theory is that the clear teaching of Scripture tells us that those who are in

Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God Romans 8:1.

While some judgment during the tribulation will only target the unsaved many others judgments

such as earthquakes, fall stars, and famines, will affect the saved and unsaved. Therefore

if the believers go through the tribulation they will suffer God's wrath. That is not biblical.

The word "Church" never appears in the book of Revelation. The word "Saints" in Revelation

does not mean the Church. Why is the word "Church" not in the book of Revelation?

That is because the Church is in heaven with God.

 

[The Light]

30 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

One problem with the post tribulation theory is that the clear teaching of Scripture tells us that those who are in

Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God Romans 8:1.

While some judgment during the tribulation will only target the unsaved many others judgments

such as earthquakes, fall stars, and famines, will affect the saved and unsaved. Therefore

if the believers go through the tribulation they will suffer God's wrath. That is not biblical.

The Church will be raptured before the Great Tribulation. The tribulation is over at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. The seventh seal is the wrath of God. No believers are appointed to wrath. Only those in the nation of Israel that flee to a place of protection, the two witnesses and unbelievers will be on earth during the wrath of God.

30 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The word "Church" never appears in the book of Revelation. The word "Saints" in Revelation

does not mean the Church. Why is the word "Church" not in the book of Revelation?

That is because the Church is in heaven with God.

 

The Church is mentioned 19 or times before the end of Revelation 3 and also in Revelation 22 at the end of everything.

I think you mean the Church is not mentioned after Revelation 3 until Revelation 22. The mostly Gentile Church is not on the earth during the 7 seals

[missmuffet]

2 minutes ago, The Light said:

The Church will be raptured before the Great Tribulation. The tribulation is over at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. The seventh seal is the wrath of God. No believers are appointed to wrath. Only those in the nation of Israel that flee to a place of protection, the two witnesses and unbelievers will be on earth during the wrath of God.

The Church is mentioned 19 or times before the end of Revelation 3 and also in Revelation 22 at the end of everything.

I think you mean the Church is not mentioned after Revelation 3 until Revelation 22. The mostly Gentile Church is not on the earth during the 7 seals

The Church will be raptured before the 7 year tribulation. Yes, I think you are right about the Church not being mentioned after Revelation 3.

[The Light]

7 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The Church will be raptured before the 7 year tribulation. 

I know this is commonly taught and I used to think the same thing. I think the correct statement is the Church will be raptured before the 7 seals are opened.

[missmuffet]

13 minutes ago, The Light said:

I know this is commonly taught and I used to think the same thing. I think the correct statement is the Church will be raptured before the 7 seals are opened.

So you are mid trib?

1 Thessalonians 5:9 This verse says that the Church has not been appointed to suffer

wrath but to receive salvation. This means that the Church will not suffer

any of the 7 year tribulation

Mid trib interprets "wrath as only the second half of tribulation-the bowl judgments.

Midtribulationism places the rapture in Revelation 11, prior to the start of the great tribulation. There are two problems with this placement in the chronology of Revelation. First, the only occurrence of the term “great tribulation” in the entire book of Revelation is in 7:14, before the opening of the seventh seal. Second, the only reference to a “great day of wrath” is in Revelation 6:17, during the events of the sixth seal. Both of these references come too early for a midtribulational rapture, which is timed according to the seventh trumpet.

 

[Neighbor]

47 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The Church will be raptured before the 7 year tribulation. Yes, I think you are right about the Church not being mentioned after Revelation 3.

What rapture? LOL It is not when  but if.

[missmuffet]

4 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

What rapture? LOL It is not when  but if.

Suit yourself. Time will tell.

[Neighbor]

Keep on hang'n on!