The 2 comings of Post-Trib

[missmuffet]

3 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Keep on hang'n on!

I am in the precious hands of Jesus Christ.

[BornAgain490]

2 hours ago, missmuffet said:

One problem with the post tribulation theory is that the clear teaching of Scripture tells us that those who are in

Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God Romans 8:1.

While some judgment during the tribulation will only target the unsaved many others judgments

such as earthquakes, fall stars, and famines, will affect the saved and unsaved. Therefore

if the believers go through the tribulation they will suffer God's wrath. That is not biblical.

The word "Church" never appears in the book of Revelation. The word "Saints" in Revelation

does not mean the Church. Why is the word "Church" not in the book of Revelation?

That is because the Church is in heaven with God.

 

Great tribulation and wrath of God are two separate events.  They are also two different words in Greek and in English. Great tribulation (megale thlipsis) means Satan's antichrists and man's widespread and intense persecution. Wrath (orgé) means God's judgment.

The Church has never escaped persecution and will not escape the widespread and intense persecution to come in the great tribulation.  Soft westernized people who call themselves Christians,  who think they're somehow not going to be beheaded, like Nigerian Christians are today, or burned alive, like middle eastern and Hindustan Christians are today, are in for a reality check.  They love having their ears tickled and their flesh appealed to with talk of a rapture,  but the Bible teaches no such thing.  Be ready. 

Over 100,000 Christians are brutally tortured and killed each year because they refuse to renounce Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord. They have gone through their great tribulation, and it's only a matter of time before we in the west (USA Canada UK) begin to experience the same.  Be ready. 

When God begins to pour out His final wrath at the day of the Lord, God will guard and protect His faithful remnant believers against His wrath, just as He protected Noah in the flood and Lot from Sodom and Gomorrha and the children of Israel at the first Passover, but He will not remove us from earth while His wrath is being poured out.  Be ready. 

[missmuffet]

Just now, BornAgain490 said:

Great tribulation and wrath of God are two separate events.  They are also two different words in Greek and in English. Great tribulation (megale thlipsis) means Satan's antichrists and man's widespread and intense persecution. Wrath (orgé) means God's judgment.

The Church has never escaped persecution and will not escape the widespread and intense persecution to come in the great tribulation.  Soft westernized people who call themselves Christians,  who think they're somehow not going to be beheaded, like Nigerian Christians are today, or burned alive, like middle eastern and Hindustan Christians are today, are in for a reality check.  They love having their ears tickled and their flesh appealed to with talk of a rapture,  but the Bible teaches no such thing.  Be ready. 

Over 100,000 Christians are brutally tortured and killed each year because they refuse to renounce Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord. They have gone through their great tribulation, and it's only a matter of time before we in the west (USA Canada UK) begin to experience the same.  Be ready. 

When God begins to pour out His final wrath at the day of the Lord, God will guard and protect His faithful remnant believers against His wrath, just as He protected Noah in the flood and Lot from Sodom and Gomorrha and the children of Israel at the first Passover, but He will not remove us from earth while His wrath is being poured out.  Be ready. 

I guess we can all post what we believe. But for the glory of God it had better be literal and truthful. I don't think God wants

us to make up the interpretation for his Holy Word.

[BornAgain490]

1 minute ago, missmuffet said:

I guess we can all post what we believe. But for the glory of God it had better be literal and truthful. I don't think God wants

us to make up the interpretation for his Holy Word.

I rely solely on what Jesus says, and what Jesus taught Paul and John which they wrote of in the Bible.

Dispensationalism is the theology that imposes itself onto scripture.  And there is not one explicitly clear cut scripture to backup a pretrib rapture.  Not even one. Pretrib rapture is based on assumptions only, and not on the literal word of God. 

[The Light]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

So you are mid trib? 

No I am pre trib and pre wrath. Two raptures There is not a 7 year tribulation. There is a 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel.

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

1 Thessalonians 5:9 This verse says that the Church has not been appointed to suffer

wrath but to receive salvation. This means that the Church will not suffer

any of the 7 year tribulation

The Great Tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. There won't be any believers on the earth after the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. The Church will be raptured after the 70th week of Daniel begins. 

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

Mid trib interprets "wrath as only the second half of tribulation-the bowl judgments.

Have you heard Matthew 24...........Immediately after the tribulation of those days? The tribulation of those days is OVER at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. There is a rapture at that time........the gathering from heaven and earth. Then the seventh seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

The trumpets are Gods wrath. The bowls are Gods wrath. Both take place during the 7th seal. At the 7th trumpet of wrath, Armageddon has already happened.

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

Midtribulationism places the rapture in Revelation 11, prior to the start of the great tribulation.

The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Revelation 11 is the last trumpets of wrath. Tribulation and the wrath of God do not happen in the same time frame.............according to the Word of God.

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

 

There are two problems with this placement in the chronology of Revelation. First, the only occurrence of the term “great tribulation” in the entire book of Revelation is in 7:14, before the opening of the seventh seal.

Exactly, you got it. You just need to understand that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

 

Second, the only reference to a “great day of wrath” is in Revelation 6:17, during the events of the sixth seal. Both of these references come too early for a midtribulational rapture, which is timed according to the seventh trumpet.

 

Jesus comes at the 6th seal, second rapture, seen here. Unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God......the great day of His wrath is come.

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

Tribulation is over. Wrath will begin when the 7th seal is opened

When you are reading Revelation 6 you are in the beginning of sorrows, the great tribulation and the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Tribulation is over. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. This contains the trumpets. At the 7th trumpet, it's over. Armageddon has happened. It's the time of judgement.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are getting a different view of the 1st 6 seals. When you are reading Rev 16 you are getting a different view of the 7th seal.........wrath of God. The trumpets and vials occur in the same timeframe.

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

No I am pre trib and pre wrath. Two raptures There is not a 7 year tribulation. There is a 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel.

The Great Tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. There won't be any believers on the earth after the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. The Church will be raptured after the 70th week of Daniel begins. 

Have you heard Matthew 24...........Immediately after the tribulation of those days? The tribulation of those days is OVER at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. There is a rapture at that time........the gathering from heaven and earth. Then the seventh seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

The trumpets are Gods wrath. The bowls are Gods wrath. Both take place during the 7th seal. At the 7th trumpet of wrath, Armageddon has already happened.

The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Revelation 11 is the last trumpets of wrath. Tribulation and the wrath of God do not happen in the same time frame.............according to the Word of God.

Exactly, you got it. You just need to understand that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.

Jesus comes at the 6th seal, second rapture, seen here. Unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God......the great day of His wrath is come.

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

Tribulation is over. Wrath will begin when the 7th seal is opened

When you are reading Revelation 6 you are in the beginning of sorrows, the great tribulation and the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Tribulation is over. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. This contains the trumpets. At the 7th trumpet, it's over. Armageddon has happened. It's the time of judgement.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are getting a different view of the 1st 6 seals. When you are reading Rev 16 you are getting a different view of the 7th seal.........wrath of God. The trumpets and vials occur in the same timeframe.

You are just as sure of your interpretation as I am the pretribulation and the rapture happening before the 7 year tribulation.

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

I rely solely on what Jesus says, and what Jesus taught Paul and John which they wrote of in the Bible.

Dispensationalism is the theology that imposes itself onto scripture.  And there is not one explicitly clear cut scripture to backup a pretrib rapture.  Not even one. Pretrib rapture is based on assumptions only, and not on the literal word of God. 

All of these different interpretations. It actually is funny.

[BornAgain490]

4 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

All of these different interpretations. It actually is funny.

The thing we must remember, even while laughing an eschatalogical view other than the one we hold, is that only one of these views is the truth.  Whichever view is true, that view will line up with scripture more so than other views. 

So, while we laugh and ridicule views other than the one we hold, we just might be laughing at the truth while holding fast to a view that is nothing but a deception brought on by Satan himself. 

Don't you agree?

[missmuffet]

2 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

The thing we must remember, even while laughing an eschatalogical view other than the one we hold, is that only one of these views is the truth.  Whichever view is true, that view will line up with scripture more so than other views. 

So, while we laugh and ridicule views other than the one we hold, we just might be laughing at the truth while holding fast to a view that is nothing but a deception brought on by Satan himself. 

Don't you agree?

That is true and besides the true literal Word of God time is the only way that the truth will come out. You can put 10 people in a room and ask them to interpret a verse of Scripture. You might get 10 different answers.

[BornAgain490]

Just now, missmuffet said:

That is true and besides the true literal Word of God time is the only way that the truth will come out. You can put 10 people in a room and ask them to interpret a verse of Scripture. You might get 10 different answers.

True, you might ten, and each view could possibly be wrong. That is why we can't rely on our feelings or "what I think this is saying to me."  We must contextualize both historically and culturally, harmonize, compare scripture with scripture, know what certain words mean, especially the Greek and Hebrew words that were translated into into English. 

Praise God we have very good English translations of the inspired words of God.