Why science will not (and cannot) replace faith

[RV_Wizard]

On 12/1/2024 at 10:15 PM, The Barbarian said:

YE creationism adds new doctrines to His word.  

Really?  Jesus was a young earth creationists.   Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.  (Also in Matthew 19:4)  Mark 13:9  For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.  Clearly, Jesus believed in Genesis 1 as written.  Jesus said in John 5, 45-47: Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.   For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.  But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Luke, the historian, traced the lineage of Jesus back to Adam, so clearly he believed in the creation story.  

Paul explained that through Adam's sin, death came into the world.  Romans 5:12=14  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.  1 Corinthians 15:21-22  For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Your claim that YEC adds new doctrine is 100% proven to be a lie, since all this has been shown to you several times.  God said He created the world in six days (Exodus, 20:11).  You refuse to believe Him.  That's your right.  However, when you are here trying to teach others that God did NOT create the world as He said He did, THAT makes you a false teacher.

[The Barbarian]

YE creationism adds new doctrines to His word.

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Really?  Jesus was a young earth creationists. 

Don't put words in His mouth.   

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 

Well, let's see what God says about that...

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.  2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

No male or female there at the beginning of creation.   Here, Jesus is speaking of the creation of the human race, not the beginning of all creation.    Why not just set your pride aside and let it be God's way?

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Clearly, Jesus believed in Genesis 1 as written. 

The issue is, you don't.   Your new doctrines require that you add and subtract things from scripture when they don't fit your wishes.   

 

 

[The Barbarian]

Science, being able to only access the physical universe can neither affirm nor deny the supernatural. 

3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Hey, that's my line

After I showed you the fact.   Glad you admit that much, at least.   But notice that most creationists say otherwise. 

What science can and does do, is debunk many of the man-made doctrines of YE creationism.

 

Edited December 10, 2024 by The Barbarian

[RV_Wizard]

4 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

After I showed you the fact.

I’ve said all along that science can neither validate nor invalidate the supernatural.  You are the one trying to twist the Bible to fit your own agenda.

[RV_Wizard]

4 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Here, Jesus is speaking of the creation of the human race, not the beginning of all creation. 

That happened on the sixth day of creation, when life on the earth (life in the sea came the day before) was first created.  That is the beginning.  Animals were created the same day as man.

 

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

That happened on the sixth day of creation

No matter how you interpret "yom" in that verse, it directly refutes your revision of Jesus' words about when male and female began.

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

That is the beginning.

No.   Genesis 1:1 tells you what was there at the beginning:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.  2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

Why won't you believe Him?

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

I’ve said all along that science can neither validate nor invalidate the supernatural.

You admit it now.   As you learned, it can invalidate man's revisions of scripture such as YE creationism,

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

You are the one trying to twist the Bible to fit your own agenda.

And yet you're telling us God was wrong in saying what was there at the beginning.

[RV_Wizard]

13 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

You admit it now.

I've said it for 20 years, and I've said it to you at least a dozen times.  Although, my statement is, "Science can neither validate nor invalidate the supernatural."  Here's another like it: "Science is the study of the creation; religion is the study of the Creator."  Then, of course, this one: "Anyone who claims to believe in the Bible and evolution has a firm understanding of neither."

13 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

As you learned, it can invalidate man's revisions of scripture such as YE creationism

How many times are you going to tell that lie?  First of all, the idea that science can invalidate ANYTHING in the Bible shows that you put your faith in the creation above the Creator.  Second of all, the genealogies in the Bible clearly indicate a young earth, since it shows the timeline from Adam to Christ, and also the five days preceding Adam's creation.  Third, it has been proven to you conclusively that belief in the creation as written has been the teaching of the church from the beginning, and wasn't challenged until the 17th century.  Since the creation story was doubtless handed down, father to son previously, that's 57 centuries before old earth teaching ever caught on.  Revision?  No, you're straight up lying and we all know it.

13 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

And yet you're telling us God was wrong in saying what was there at the beginning.

God is never wrong.  Your unwillingness to believe Him is on you.  God told us how He created the world.  YOU are the one twisting partial verses out of context to claim they say things they do not say.  You repeated say that the earth brought forth all living creatures, but you refuse to admit that God commanded it and that it it all happened in one day.  Cattle, for example, were created fully formed on day six.  The creation was completed on day six.  Dinosaurs would have been created on day six.  They pre-date man by hours, not millions of years.

14 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Genesis 1:1 tells you what was there at the beginning:

Genesis 1:1 is the beginning of creation.  Genesis 1:3 was the beginning of light.  Genesis 1:9 was the beginning of dry land.  Genesis 1:11 was the beginning of grasses and herbs.  Genesis 1:16 was the beginning of the sun and moon.  Genesis 1:24 is the beginning of animal life.  Genesis 1:27 is the beginning of man.  Genesis 2:21 is the beginning of marriage.

Do you see a pattern there?  The beginning of something is NOT the beginning of everything.  The creation was a six day process.  I've asked you before.  Is there ANYTHING in the Bible you believe as written?

 

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Then, of course, this one: "Anyone who claims to believe in the Bible and evolution has a firm understanding of neither."

That's a common YE creationist superstition,    You proved the opposite.   Several people here have shown that you don't understand scripture, and that you have all sorts of misunderstandings about evolution.

And yet you're telling us God was wrong in saying what was there at the beginning.

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

God is never wrong,

But you are.   As long as you read scripture like a lawyer looking for loopholes in a contract, you'll miss the message.

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

God told us how He created the world. 

No, He told us that He did.   He didn't provide the details as to how.    That's not what scripture is for.    As you learned, science can invalidate man's revisions of scripture such as YE creationism.

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

First of all, the idea that science can invalidate ANYTHING in the Bible shows that you put your faith in the creation above the Creator.

So you're back to inventing odd things and pretending I said them.    Do you think no one notices?   As you learned, science can invalidate man's revisions of scripture such as YE creationism.    You've assumed your new ideas are God's word.

You're not God.   Until you humbly accept His word as it is, you'll find no peace.    Let it go and accept it His way.

[RV_Wizard]

On 12/11/2024 at 10:00 AM, The Barbarian said:

That's a common YE creationist superstition, 

No, it's a fact.  The Bible says God created the world in six days.  Evolution claims millions of years.  Anyone who thinks that these are compatible is either disturbed or lying to himself.

On 12/11/2024 at 10:00 AM, The Barbarian said:

And yet you're telling us God was wrong in saying what was there at the beginning.

No, I've shown that you are amazingly dishonest.  The beginning doesn't mean the first second only.  The beginning is the beginning of creation, the beginning of life, and the beginning of time.  Jesus said that God made man and woman from the beginning.  NOTHING you say can trump Jesus.  You are just continuing your attempts to discredit the Bible.

On 12/11/2024 at 10:00 AM, The Barbarian said:

As long as you read scripture like a lawyer looking for loopholes in a contract,

Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.  Loopholes?  YOU are the one taking phrases and words out of context to try and conform with your twisted, non-biblical beliefs.

On 12/11/2024 at 10:00 AM, The Barbarian said:

He didn't provide the details as to how.  

Really?  There is an entire chapter describing how.  Have you ever read the Bible, or do you just rely on atheist websites?

On 12/11/2024 at 10:00 AM, The Barbarian said:

As you learned, science can invalidate man's revisions of scripture such as YE creationism.

Lying a thousand times doesn't make it true.  quoting Scripture is NOT revising Scripture.  God Himself said that He created the heaven and the earth in six days.  You seem to think that people will believe you over both the Father and the Son.  You are a false teacher.  You are spewing falsehoods and distortions of Scripture.  It's not just a different interpretation.  It's a deliberate misrepresentation.

On 12/11/2024 at 10:00 AM, The Barbarian said:

You've assumed your new ideas are God's word.

And the lying continues.  As everyone here knows, the six day creation was ALWAYS part of church teaching until some began to drift away from it in the 17th and 18th centuries.