Pilgrim7 Posted November 27, 2005 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 27, 2005 (edited) And Jesus said: Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man (all of mankind, I am a part of mankind as are all of you, therefore it was made for us for instruction of the Scriptures and worship), and not man for the sabbath: 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Lk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. 6:6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered. Jesus the Lord and Creator of the Holy Sabbath Day, thus the Lord's Day, kept the Holy Sabbath Day as did Paul who taught the Jews and Gentiles on the Holy Sabbath Day. I wonder why Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath forgot to tell us that it was Done away with. Surely He who wrote it with His finger, and spoke it to the people, should at least give us a hint that He was doing away with it, especially since the New Covenant was for Israel. Paul's example of not keeping God's Holy Sabbath Day: Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, [Ye] men [and] brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (Notice what Paul didn't say. He didn't say that the God's Holy Sabbath Day had been done away with.) Here Paul continues to teach Gentiles on the Holy Sabbath Day even after the death of Herod which is recorded in Acts 12. Herod died about the year 40 AD, 7 to 10 years after the death of Jesus. Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Here Paul is still keeping God's Holy Sabbath Day and teaching the Gentile converts the ways of God and has forgotten to teach them about the 'new day of worship'. The date here is approximately 51 AD. Acts 17:2[b/] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 17:3 Opening and alledging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. 17:4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few. Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. (here again, some 20 years after the death of Christ, Paul still says not a word about God's Holy Sabbath Day having been done away with. He says not a word about choosing any day you wish) Why did not Paul tell them that God's Holy Sabbath Day has been done away with? Hmm! I thought that he was the one that said the Holy Law of God had been done away with. He should have been shouting it from the roof tops. He should have told those Gentile converts to gather on Sunday. Something is not right here. This is the testimony of the Scriptures, the New Testament, not my own words. God bless, Dennis Edited November 27, 2005 by Pilgrim7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 27, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,151 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,869 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 27, 2005 Pilgram, you seem to be stuck on this new day of worship thing. I don't see anyone here that is suggesting that Sunday is the sabbath. Most of us are suggesting that the sabbath was spiritualized just like the other ten commandments and it a way of life and you are to give your entire life over to Jesus and not one day. Jesus went to the synagogue on the sabbath because that was where the Jews were that he wanted to talk to. While I agree he didn't change the time to worship to Sunday, I might add that the ten commandments really doesn't tell us to worship on the sabbath. If you are keeping the sabbath, do you keep your house warm on Saturday.... 35:then Moses assembled all the congregation of the sons of Israel, and said to them, "These are the things that the LORD has commanded you to do. 2For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. 3You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day." NASB You are not to even build a fire on the Sabbath. It doesn't tell us to go to the synagogue on Saturday and worship or fellowship or anything else but to take the entire day off and do nothing. If you re in an organization that teaches the sabbath, do you kill them should they break it...... then you are breaking the sabbath laws put forth to Moses by the Lord. Jesus plainly told the Pharisees that he was working on the sabbath. He didn't correct them about doing good works or anything that they had created or added to the Sabbath Laws; He plainly and flatly said that both He and the Father were working. 015The man went away, and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well. 16And for this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." 18For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, b NASB Now if it is OK to do good works on the Sabbath, I ask would it not be very important to let us know that what he was doing was OK or some different kind of work....... did he do so.... no He said He was working. Now I happen to believe that Jesus was sinless, so I must believe that there have been some changes in things or He would not have agreed that He was working. Going to the synagogue was a tradition of the Jews just as it is now and it is a tradition of gentiles to gather on Sunday, it was not part of the ten commandments. New covenant..... overhauled commandments. And these commandments if followed will not only keep you from breaking the old ten commandments, they will make you good neighbors, and we really could use this around here right now. Make your life a Sabbath and die to yourself and live for the Lord....... That is what the new covenant is all about..... that is what salvation is all about... dieing to this world and living for for our Lord every minute of every day of the rest of your life. Are you willing to only give up one day for the Lord...... my prayers are for your understanding..... it's important. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avidan Posted November 27, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 130 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 27, 2005 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival [feast day] or a new moon or sabbaths. ----- Colossians 2:16 NKJV (emphasis added) Christians are not under the law of Moses. It's nobody's business as for how you chose to keep the sabbath. That's only between two persons, and that's you and God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim7 Posted November 28, 2005 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2005 Shilo, Scripture says that heaven must receive Jesus UNTIL the restoration of all things. That is not my words, but the words of God. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Shilo, Scripture says that heaven must receive Jesus UNTIL the restoration of all things. That is not my words, but the words of God. Dennis Dennis, if you had bothered to actually read my last post, I was defending the Sabbath. Think you can go back and reread my words, chief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted November 28, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2005 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival [feast day] or a new moon or sabbaths. ----- Colossians 2:16 NKJV (emphasis added) Christians are not under the law of Moses. It's nobody's business as for how you chose to keep the sabbath. That's only between two persons, and that's you and God. Just exactly how is the Sabbath the Law of Moses? Which came 1st? Moses? or the Sabbath? Still, nobody is offering any scriptures to justify how "the sabbath was spiritualized just like the other ten commandments" . . . and even so . . . I don't believe we are allow to break any of the other nine in their written clarity. Why the 4th? If we truly can keep any day . . . then why does the church choose to keep Sunday . . . every 7 days? Where is the scriptures for all this change and "liberity" to do whatever we want whenever we want as far as weekly worship goes? Or is there no weekly worship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 28, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,151 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,869 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2005 It think I'll just leave this subject for the Holy Spirit to deal with for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim7 Posted November 28, 2005 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2005 (edited) Shilo, My apologies my friend. Although I was responding to what you had written in an earlier post. I have no beef with you, I just share the Scriptures as I see them as do you. I would think the Jewish converts would be quite zealous for God's Holy Sabbath Day. I know many Messianic Jews and they delighted to see the Holy Sabbath Day of the Lord restored. You Wrote: "No, the second coming will occur long before all things are restored. Read Revelation; Messiah comes back, and then everything is restored. That passage is not dealing with second coming. "Times of refreshing" is better rendered as "seasons" of refreshing, and has nothing to do with the second coming. Yours is a misreading of the text." The Scripture does not agree with that statement. Revelation agrees with the scripture in Acts 3:21. I am reading the text just as it reads. Jesus has been received into the heavens UNTIL the restoration of all things Written, including Revelations. You see it is up to us to restore all things through Christ, this is what the 'Reformation' is all about. He is coming back for a church without 'spot or wrinkle or any such thing' a fully restored and reformed Church. This is what Scripture teaches. We are His servants and He works through us. The Scriptures even says that God will crush Satan's head beneath our feet. Thanks for the compliment Shilo, but I'm not really a chief, just one of the indians and a brother to those in Christ. God Bless, Dennis Edited November 28, 2005 by Pilgrim7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Withall Posted November 28, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 11 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/15/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/22/1981 Share Posted November 28, 2005 WOW, Satan is really drawing a knife between us belivers! I think Christ cares about the Heart NOT the petty little differances that we "as belivers" have....Can anyone ever tell me if a church has it ALL right, all the time?...(i think not otherwize we would be in heaven NOW).... I love seventh day belivers and cast NO judgement on them...they are my brothers in Christ! I know people that Love the Lord with all there heart but have to work on sunday/saturday hence they go to Church meetings on a wednesday (are they going to hell?...i think not) Christ knows the Heart!, Christ Knows the motives!..... Yours in Christ, Andrew. PS. Please do not try to tell me that i am "wrong", because I feel that i have sufficent biblical truth to say otherwize, and i will NOT say you are wrong as you belive you have sufficent biblical proof and no one will win but Satan himself. Lets Just keep our eyes fixed upon Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted November 28, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2005 . . . I love seventh day belivers and cast NO judgement on them...they are my brothers in Christ! . . . Andrew, To the best of my knowledge this has not been about casting judgment on each other, nor do I feel that is in any way the spirit of the majority of threads here. Brothers and sisters, believers and unbelievers, all come here to openly reason and ask questions of each other hoping to understand both God's word and each other better. Just because definitive questions are ask doesn't mean someone is condemning another, rather it shows the earnest of one's desire to prove all things. Doubtless, some who are unable (or maybe unwilling) to answer may feel uneasy, but that should not be a reflection on one who asks another to support their position with scriptures. I admit I have asked many questions and I am still awaiting answers, but I know that I have judged no one. Peace PS - It does appear, however, that Sabbatarians are more willing to scripturally support their position than non-Sabbatarians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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