Virgin birth?

[RV_Wizard]

Biology tells us that a virgin birth could not have happened.  While today we can perform artificial insemenation, such procedures were not available 2,000 years ago.  In the improbable case of two eggs causing a fertilization, the result would be a female.  
The virgin birth is foundational doctrine.  Which do you trust; the Bible or biology?

[Tristen]

On 12/17/2024 at 6:49 AM, RV_Wizard said:

Biology tells us that a virgin birth could not have happened.  While today we can perform artificial insemenation, such procedures were not available 2,000 years ago.  In the improbable case of two eggs causing a fertilization, the result would be a female.  
The virgin birth is foundational doctrine. 

The Virgin Birth of Christ is a fundamental (i.e. defining) doctrine of the Christian faith.

 

On 12/17/2024 at 6:49 AM, RV_Wizard said:

Which do you trust; the Bible or biology?

I don't see them as being in logical conflict.

The Virgin Birth of Christ is a supernatural claim -and therefore beyond the scope of natural science.

 

[RV_Wizard]

6 hours ago, Tristen said:

I don't see them as being in logical conflict.

The Virgin Birth of Christ is a supernatural claim -and therefore beyond the scope of natural science.

While I personally agree with that, there are some in these forums who would contend that anything in the Bible contradicted by science cannot be literally true.  When asked about the virgin birth or the resurrection of Christ, they refuse to comment.  However, they do openly doubt some of the nine other resurrections in the Bible.  So, to be logically consistent, one must either trust the supremacy of the Bible over natural law or disregard all of it because natural law is violated over 300 times in the Bible. 

[Tristen]

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

there are some in these forums who would contend that anything in the Bible contradicted by science cannot be literally true

If so, they understand neither the logical scope nor the practical application of "science".

By design, "science" does not claim certainty about anything - but rather always leaves open the possibility that our current understand is wrong or incomplete. This perpetual, critical scrutiny is what makes the Scientific Method so logically robust.

Whether or not individuals recognize the logical limitations of science is largely irrelevant. Logic doesn't care about what people want to be true - only what can be justified through evidence and rational argument.

 

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

However, they do openly doubt some of the nine other resurrections in the Bible.  So, to be logically consistent, one must either trust the supremacy of the Bible over natural law or disregard all of it because natural law is violated over 300 times in the Bible.

It would be strangely inconsistent for someone claiming to be a Christian to deny miracles (supernatural departures from natural law).

It's not either/or. God built natural law into His rational creation. Nevertheless, God is not governed nor restricted by natural law whatsoever. Two things can be true at once: Natural law is a governing principle of existence in the natural universe - and God can override natural law, without contradiction, whenever it serves His purpose.

 

 

 

[missmuffet]

On 12/16/2024 at 12:49 PM, RV_Wizard said:

Biology tells us that a virgin birth could not have happened.  While today we can perform artificial insemenation, such procedures were not available 2,000 years ago.  In the improbable case of two eggs causing a fertilization, the result would be a female.  
The virgin birth is foundational doctrine.  Which do you trust; the Bible or biology?

Definitely the Bible. What about you?

Edited December 18, 2024 by missmuffet

[enoob57]

The Son says this about The Father
Mark 10:27 (KJV)

[27] And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

I believe God above all else!

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The Son says this about The Father
Mark 10:27 (KJV)

[27] And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

I believe God above all else!

 

More than any human on this earth.

[BornAgain490]

On 12/16/2024 at 3:49 PM, RV_Wizard said:

Biology tells us that a virgin birth could not have happened.  While today we can perform artificial insemenation, such procedures were not available 2,000 years ago.  In the improbable case of two eggs causing a fertilization, the result would be a female.  
The virgin birth is foundational doctrine.  Which do you trust; the Bible or biology?

My God: the One who created the heavens and the earth, and everything in them, has the power to cause the miraculous conception in the womb of a young woman whose body had never known a man, so that God Himself could take on flesh and reconcile mankind to Himself.  Don't doubt Him; praise and glorify Him.  

[BornAgain490]

On 12/18/2024 at 6:30 AM, RV_Wizard said:

So, to be logically consistent, one must either trust the supremacy of the Bible over natural law or disregard all of it because natural law is violated over 300 times in the Bible. 

By natural law, I assume you mean what is commonly understood as 'the laws of nature' as man knows them. 

From where does this natural law originate?  Before there was time, space, and matter, was this same natural law in existence?  I suggest it was not, but that natural law came into existence when God created time, space, and matter. And since God is the creator of time, space, and matter (and all things contained within time, space, and matter), then God is able to act any way He wills in that which He created.  Thus, a virgin birth is wholly consistent with God's omnipotence, as is the incarnation, the resurrection of the dead, the indwelling Christ, etc. 

[BeyondET]

On 12/16/2024 at 3:49 PM, RV_Wizard said:

Biology tells us that a virgin birth could not have happened.  While today we can perform artificial insemenation, such procedures were not available 2,000 years ago.  In the improbable case of two eggs causing a fertilization, the result would be a female.  
The virgin birth is foundational doctrine.  Which do you trust; the Bible or biology?

Both because biology confirms parthenogenesis can happen naturally. And the Bible confirms it can happen spiritually.

Similarly a immortal jellyfish can physically live forever, grow old then revert back to a fetus and continue a life cycle indefinitely if not for the hazards of this world. Yet it's possible like a virgin birth naturally. Even simply using a discarded urtus lining wouldn't be to hard for God, He created Adam from dirt that is similar.

Edited December 20, 2024 by BeyondET