This is my understanding to why grace cannot be earned. I have given an illustration to explain my thoughts..

[Fran C]

10 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

By "necessary" do you mean compulsory or requisite to be and stay saved?

Or by "necessary" do you mean that good works are an effect of and necessarily flow from, and follow, having been spiritually born again in Christ? 

Or do you have some other explanation of the word "necessary."

Are you trying to start a debate as to whether or not Christians are required to do good works/deeds - as opposed to doing bad works/deeds - on a thread asking for advice?

Hmmm.  I don't think I'll go there.

 

[Michael37]

25 minutes ago, Fran C said:

Are you trying to start a debate as to whether or not Christians are required to do good works/deeds - as opposed to doing bad works/deeds - on a thread asking for advice?

Hmmm.  I don't think I'll go there.

 

I'm tempted to change the title of the thread to "Why Grace Cannot Be Earned".

Some thread titles are framed as questions suggesting their authors are seeking answers to something they are trying to understand when in reality the intention of the author is to provide their opinion.

It is an irrefutable truth that if grace could be earned it wouldn't be grace, but recompense.

[Fran C]

4 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

I'm tempted to change the title of the thread to "Why Grace Cannot Be Earned".

Some thread titles are framed as questions suggesting their authors are seeking answers to something they are trying to understand when in reality the intention of the author is to provide their opinion.

It is an irrefutable truth that if grace could be earned it wouldn't be grace, but recompense.

I think the OP is seeking an answer....Why grace cannot be earned would be a good title in Theology.  But, yes, you're right of course.

I agree totally that all is a free gift of God:  Grace, Faith and Salvation.  Paul makes it very clear that faith is not a work and that if it were it would not be of grace.

Amen to that!

[Fran C]

@Michael37

 

Wait!

Are we in THEOLOGY?!

Then I agree!  (I'm getting 2 different threads mixed up).

Also, do these posts have numbers?  I can't find one.

Edited January 13 by Fran C

[Fran C]

11 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

By "necessary" do you mean compulsory or requisite to be and stay saved?

Or by "necessary" do you mean that good works are an effect of and necessarily flow from, and follow, having been spiritually born again in Christ? 

Or do you have some other explanation of the word "necessary."

Hey BornAgain,

Sorry for my previous reply....I got 2 different threads that we're on mixed up.

 

As to the above:  Here's what I think:

We cannot earn grace because there's nothing we can do to earn God's love.  This is because God already loves all of His creation, as John 3:16 states.

When God created the Garden He said it was good.

When God created mankind He said it was very good.

Then mankind sinned so much that God wanted to just end it all.  But God loved us enough to give us a second chance and to provide for us a way of escape....the cross.

So grace---God's love---comes naturally and is given to mankind.  Whether or not each individual person wishes to accept God's grace is entirely up to each person.

It's available for who wishes to accept it.

WHOSOEVER believes in Jesus will not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[Michael37]

7 minutes ago, Fran C said:

@Michael37

 

Wait!

Are we in THEOLOGY?!

Then I agree!  (I'm getting 2 different threads mixed up).

Also, do these posts have numbers?  I can't find one.

Posts are not numbered but the Multi Quote plus sign next to the Quote gadget is very good if you are picking through thread pages before posting a reply because you can select a number of quotes to reply to as they are inserted.

[Fran C]

11 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Posts are not numbered but the Multi Quote plus sign next to the Quote gadget is very good if you are picking through thread pages before posting a reply because you can select a number of quotes to reply to as they are inserted.

Thanks Michael.

I do think thread numbering is a good idea because sometimes we want to refer back to a thread.  I guess that can't be done here.

OK!

Fran

[BornAgain490]

2 hours ago, Fran C said:

Are you trying to start a debate as to whether or not Christians are required to do good works/deeds - as opposed to doing bad works/deeds - on a thread asking for advice?

Hmmm.  I don't think I'll go there.

 

I never said anything about "bad works/deeds."  So why would you even suggest it was something I was asking about.

You said goods are "necessary" for salvation, I'm just curious what you mean by necessary. 

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, Fran C said:

When God created mankind He said it was very good.

Actually, it was when God saw everything that He had made, it was very good, man being Gods final creation on the sixth day. 

 

1 hour ago, Fran C said:

Then mankind sinned so much that God wanted to just end it all.  But God loved us enough to give us a second chance and to provide for us a way of escape...

It was God's plan all along, as part of His eternal decrees, to create then destroy all that had the breath of life, but to show grace unto Noah to bring forth new life, which would bring forth Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and Jesus the promised seed. 

 

1 hour ago, Fran C said:

So grace---God's love---comes naturally and is given to mankind.

God's grace and God's love are two distinct, but overlapping, eternal characteristics of God. 

 

1 hour ago, Fran C said:

Whether or not each individual person wishes to accept God's grace is entirely up to each person.

God's grace is universally offered, but is effectual to only God's elect whom God has predestinated and chosen beforehand. 

 

1 hour ago, Fran C said:

It's available for who wishes to accept it.

All of God's predestinated elect will be effectuated and saved by God's grace. Many others will not, not because they chose not to, but because God chose to by-pass them. 

[Fran C]

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

Actually, it was when God saw everything that He had made, it was very good, man being Gods final creation on the sixth day. 

BA,,,,I'm not going to change this into a discussion on calvinism - although I know that colors everything you read in the bible.

Read Genesis 1:10, 12, 18, 21, 25   What does it say at the end of each verse?

Now read Genesis 1:31 What did God say at the end of that verse after He saw that everything he had made FOR MAN, everything in the Garden?

After man was created it went from being GOOD to being VERY GOOD.

Man is God's ultimate creation....difficult to believe He would create man, say it's very good, and then damn most persons to hell.

 

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

 

It was God's plan all along, as part of His eternal decrees, to create then destroy all that had the breath of life, but to show grace unto Noah to bring forth new life, which would bring forth Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and Jesus the promised seed. 

Can you show this from scripture?  That destroying everything was God's plan from the beginning?  Explain WHY God was "sorry" He had created man...Genesis 6:6  Didn't you just state that it was His plan?? Then why be sorry about His plan?  Does God not know what He's doing?

 

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

 

God's grace and God's love are two distinct, but overlapping, eternal characteristics of God. 

Do you know about Divine Simplicity?

God "characteristics" don't overlap.

God IS what He IS.  God is totally what HE IS....He doesn't HAVE an attribute...He IS that attribute.

John states that God IS LOVE...not that God HAS love.  And if God IS LOVE, He cannot go against His own character.  See 2 Timothy 2:13 ... God cannot deny Himself...He MUST adhere to His character and to His attributes because He is totally those attributes and is perfect in those attributes.

God abhores sin...so He cannot create sin...this would be denying Himself.

God IS LOVE....in God there is no darkness.  1 John 1:5

Do you believe the NT? (and OT).

 

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

 

God's grace is universally offered, but is effectual to only God's elect whom God has predestinated and chosen beforehand. 

 

WHERE does the NT state the above??

Grace and love go hand in hand and cannot be separated.  God does NOT CHOOSE who will be damned....an individual damns himself.  

God wishes all men to be saved 1 Timothy 2:4.....but there are conditions...John 3:16....and not every man is willing to accept those conditions.

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

 

All of God's predestinated elect will be effectuated and saved by God's grace. Many others will not, not because they chose not to, but because God chose to by-pass them. 

Great God  you're worshipping there.

Fortunately for mankind, it is not the God of the NT which Jesus revealed to us.

Also, please use scripture or you will not be receiving a reply from me.

You must post scripture for all of the statement you've made above.  Again...your opinion is worthless...only what the NT teaches is of any value to mankind.