Christ's kingdom will never be physically on this earth

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, dad2 said:

Never happened, they never possessed all that he promised. They never will, until they receive Jesus in the end.

No such thing as "National Salvation" for Israel as suggested, only the remnant elect Jew will be chosen and saved, and added to the church on earth, those whom God foreknew, just as all believers in the Church

Romans 11:7-8KJV

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Edited 22 hours ago by truth7t7

[Locust]

33 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

You have been shown multiple times that at the future resurrection at the Lords return the resurrection takes place in the twinkling of an eye, as "The Last Enemy Death Is Destroyed" (Then Cometh The End)

ah but that's a 1000 years + in the future 

[Luther]

11 hours ago, dad2 said:

We are the true Israel I would think. So are they when they get saved. He always fulfills promises. So for the remnant 'all Israel' that gets saved in the end, He gives them the land of Israel. Not like He promised it to us, or we would want it. They were promised and will want it.

Right now, of course the state calling itself Israel there are a bunch of terrorists as far as I am concerned and not saved.

I agree with you that " All Israel" is everyone in Christ.

The major concern in the Christian church with physical land and the recognition of people with hebrew descent  (supposedly) actually has nothing to do with salvation or the kingdom of God.

" Israel" was a name chosen for that state in 1948. They had other names they were going to use as well. " Israel" In the Old Testament wasn't a land. It was a nation of people ( as in the 12 tribes of Jacob). There are no 12 tribes in tact today.  They have been scattered for thousands of years.

Is Abraham looking to come back to a physical land?

Hebrews 11:8-10 KJV
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

[9] By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 

[10] For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Why in the world are millions of us focusing on physical land when Abraham certainly wasn't?

Genesis 17:8 KJV
And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

God gives Abraham and his seed (Christians) ALL the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession. Well to me that sounds like heaven.

Let me know what you think.

 

 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

"False Claim"

or not...since none of the events shown as taking place 'during the Lords Day' have been shown to take place at any other time...

[dad2]

10 hours ago, Luther said:

Please define " All Israel".

 Rom 11:

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

²⁶ And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

²⁷ For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins

 

When, when the Deliver comes. How any will be saved then? All. How many will be left alive then to be saved finally? We don't know. We do know that at one point 2/3 of them will be killed. Probably plenty before that as well. So it will be a small fraction of the population that exists before that period of the last seven years starts. A remnant. So until that time when He returns, they will remain in blindness as a whole. (obviously many get saved individually before that and have done so through history) Until the fullness of the gentiles is come.

 

"They were then rejected not merely as individuals, but as a community, and therefore are to be restored as a community"

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/hdg/romans-11.html#verse-25

A community of saved people!

[dad2]

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

No such thing as "National Salvation" for Israel as suggested, only the remnant elect Jew will be chosen and saved, and added to the church on earth, those whom God foreknew, just as all believers in the Church
 

Those left alive in the end. The Jews as a community

The words, This is my covenant with them, occur in Isaiah 59:21; the clause, When I shall take away their sins, is from Isaiah 27:9, as rendered by the lxx, who give the sense of the Hebrew, “Their iniquity shall be purged;” or, literally, to take away his sin. All the apostle intended to prove, is proved by the language of the prophets. The covenant of God with his ancient people secured, after their apostasy and consequent banishment in Babylon, and their dispersion over the earth, and their rejection of Christ, the ultimate purging away of their sin, and their restoration, as a nation, to the Messiah’s kingdom. This national conversion is also predicted in Zechariah 12:10, and in many other passages of the Old Testament.

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/hdg/romans-11.html#verse-25

 

[dad2]

Quote

I agree with you that " All Israel" is everyone in Christ.

I never said that. The community of Israel as a whole. Just as the nation used to believe in Him, regardless of some few individual  rebels who did not.

 

Quote

The major concern in the Christian church with physical land and the recognition of people with hebrew descent  (supposedly) actually has nothing to do with salvation or the kingdom of God.

The land will not be restored to them until they are restored to Him. Being restored has everything to do with salvation. That will not come until the fullness of the Gentiles also comes. That is in the end.

Quote

" Israel" was a name chosen for that state in 1948.

No. That name goes back to a guy named Israel thousands of years ago actually. The secular group of people that took that land of Israel in 1948 were not the ones who God gave it to. They are the Israel of prophesy that will face Tribulation and judgments.

Quote

God gives Abraham and his seed (Christians) ALL the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession. Well to me that sounds like heaven.

God gives Christians, the Bride of Christ, New Jerusalem in heaven! That is our home and the place He prepared for us. Not some middle eastern desert. Since He will rule rule from Jerusalem, we might say that is a home away from home also for us. It will not come down to this old world, but only comes down after the 1000 years to the new earth He creates. We will help Him in His rule of the world, not just 'Canaan'

 

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, Luther said:

God gives Abraham and his seed (Christians) ALL the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession. Well to me that sounds like heaven.

Let me know what you think.

Yes the land inheritance will be seen in the Eternal New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, as Ezekiel Chapter 48 clearly explains below

(The Lord Is There)

Ezekiel 48:1-35KJV

1 Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.

2 And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.

3 And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali.

4 And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh.

5 And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.

6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.

7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah.

8 And by the border of Judah, from the east side unto the west side, shall be the offering which ye shall offer of five and twenty thousand reeds in breadth, and in length as one of the other parts, from the east side unto the west side: and the sanctuary shall be in the midst of it.

9 The oblation that ye shall offer unto the Lord shall be of five and twenty thousand in length, and of ten thousand in breadth.

10 And for them, even for the priests, shall be this holy oblation; toward the north five and twenty thousand in length, and toward the west ten thousand in breadth, and toward the east ten thousand in breadth, and toward the south five and twenty thousand in length: and the sanctuary of the Lord shall be in the midst thereof.

11 It shall be for the priests that are sanctified of the sons of Zadok; which have kept my charge, which went not astray when the children of Israel went astray, as the Levites went astray.

12 And this oblation of the land that is offered shall be unto them a thing most holy by the border of the Levites.

13 And over against the border of the priests the Levites shall have five and twenty thousand in length, and ten thousand in breadth: all the length shall be five and twenty thousand, and the breadth ten thousand.

14 And they shall not sell of it, neither exchange, nor alienate the firstfruits of the land: for it is holy unto the Lord.

15 And the five thousand, that are left in the breadth over against the five and twenty thousand, shall be a profane place for the city, for dwelling, and for suburbs: and the city shall be in the midst thereof.

16 And these shall be the measures thereof; the north side four thousand and five hundred, and the south side four thousand and five hundred, and on the east side four thousand and five hundred, and the west side four thousand and five hundred.

17 And the suburbs of the city shall be toward the north two hundred and fifty, and toward the south two hundred and fifty, and toward the east two hundred and fifty, and toward the west two hundred and fifty.

18 And the residue in length over against the oblation of the holy portion shall be ten thousand eastward, and ten thousand westward: and it shall be over against the oblation of the holy portion; and the increase thereof shall be for food unto them that serve the city.

19 And they that serve the city shall serve it out of all the tribes of Israel.

20 All the oblation shall be five and twenty thousand by five and twenty thousand: ye shall offer the holy oblation foursquare, with the possession of the city.

21 And the residue shall be for the prince, on the one side and on the other of the holy oblation, and of the possession of the city, over against the five and twenty thousand of the oblation toward the east border, and westward over against the five and twenty thousand toward the west border, over against the portions for the prince: and it shall be the holy oblation; and the sanctuary of the house shall be in the midst thereof.

22 Moreover from the possession of the Levites, and from the possession of the city, being in the midst of that which is the prince's, between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin, shall be for the prince.

23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.

24 And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion.

25 And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion.

26 And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion.

27 And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad a portion.

28 And by the border of Gad, at the south side southward, the border shall be even from Tamar unto the waters of strife in Kadesh, and to the river toward the great sea.

29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord God.

30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.

31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.

Edited 11 hours ago by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, dad2 said:

 A community of saved people!

The study light commentary has it right in view #1

Yes The Church, A Community Of Saved People!

Quote View #1:

"Thus all the true Israel, embracing Jews as well as Gentiles, should ultimately be saved."

Edited 11 hours ago by truth7t7

[DeighAnn]

13 hours ago, Luther said:

Please define " All Israel".

Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand Ezekiel 37:19 


GOD hasn't abandoned the prophecies given in the OLD TEST and I believe   
All Israel is ALL of Gods people, house of Judah, house of Israel, aka all those of the law and all those of faith, WHOMSOEVER WOULD.

It starts back in the OT - the Nation of Israel begins with the 12 tribes.  They get split into 2, one will keep the Law and bring forth the Messiah, the other will come by FAITH and preach to the whole world of Gods Salvation.  (King line and Birthright, Judah and Joseph) 

Both those kingdoms went into captivity whereby the LAND of the nation ceased to be under their control. Since then, the house of Judah, (has never forgotten where they come from)brought forth the Messiah and continue to keep GODS Law, while the house of Israel has and are the 'lost sheep of the house of Israel' JESUS came for, and having been sifted amongst the heathen they have gone on to create many nations, and they come to be of Israel through FAITH in Jesus Christ. 

  

6  Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,  9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11  For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

Zech 10

6  And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.

7 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD.

8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.

9 And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again.

10 I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt, and gather them out of Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; and place shall not be found for them.

11 And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall smite the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up: and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away.

12  And I will strengthen them in the LORD; and they shall walk up and down in his name, saith the LORD.



For me it is best explained in Ez 37  with the valley of the dry bones
 

The Vision Explained

11  Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12  Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13  And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14  And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Their GRAVES WERE OPENED and they 'followed Him/lived again' and will return with Him and will be placed back in their own land at the 2nd Advent....

 

 2nd Advent - Lords Day...

15  The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16  Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19  Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20  And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21  And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land

22  And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23  Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26  Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27  My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.