" I do not believe in the Faith movement."

[gypc]

Isaiah 57

1 The righteous perish,

and no one ponders it in his heart;

devout men are taken away,

and no one understands

that the righteous are taken away

to be spared from evil.

2 Those who walk uprightly

enter into peace;

they find rest as they lie in death.

Phil 1:21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

[Fiosh]

I believe in faith. I like to think of faith the way Daniel'f friends did when they were going to be thrown into the furnace. They basically said that God was able to deliver them. But they also said that even if God did not deliver them, He was still God. They had faith in the character of God to always do the right thing. They had faith in God's character that looked past circumstances

Yeah! What he said!

Ditto!

[John3;16]

God does hear our prayers, but as an earlier post pointed out that God does not always answer in the affirmative, an example is when Jesus in the garden prayed "Lord let this cup pass from me" but he added not my will but thy will be done, that is how we should pray that his will be done, another point is that even though Jesus raised some from the dead, they had to die again, this world is not our home, we are strangers and pilgrims on the earth. It seems tragic when someone so young dies, but we have assurance of an eternal life if we have our faith in Jesus, and each one of us will face death, until the lord returns. The faith movement as you call it, or the believe and receive crowd, seem to think that God is obligated to provide their every wish, that is not what God promised us, he promised us eternal life if we believe on his Son and the atoning death on the cross, he also said he would preserve us, and provide for us, but not to give us riches untold on this earth, he told us to store up in heaven our treasures, the bible also states that the Father will conform us to the image of his Son. So place your faith in God not in circumstances, or in how the Lord performs are will.

Hebrews|11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Hebrews|11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as

[Arthur Durnan]

The BIBLICAl fact of the matter is that the Lord Jesus doesn't always choose to heal us. The Apostle Peter actually talks about a ministry OF SUFFERING! And doesn't Paul call death "GAIN"? If Jesus ALWAYS healed His precious children, we'd have NO funeral homes, NO obits, NO epitaphs, NO ICUs, NO operating theaters - but we DO! Even Pentecostal faith-healers die too.....ie, Jack Coe, A.A. Allen, etc. God CAN heal...He MAY heal...and He may NOT heal.

"To the law & to the testimony. If they speak not according to this Word, it's because there is no light in them."

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[yomotalking]

Hi Yomo,

I think you are meaning what I know of as the word of faith movement. I believe their doctrine is in error. The phrase by His stripes we are healed is from Isaiah.

But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was on Him; and with His stripes we ourselves are healed.

Please note the context is refering to our sins.

Yomo, sometimes it is Gods will someone we care about dies. Remember the sparrows. Not one of them falls without the will of the Father. That young man you refer to is much loved and will be much missed Im sure. For reasons we wont understand here, it is His will to call him home.

Getting back to the word of faith movement. Their doctrine may be off base, but the Lord is still real and Jesus is still the only way. Perhaps it is time for you to grow and understand more of what our beliefs mean. Perhaps it is time for you to grow beyond the milk stage of understanding the Lord and to chew on the meat a bit. (The reference is from Hebrews.)

God bless

My realationship with God is hanging by a thread.........

The BIBLICAl fact of the matter is that the Lord Jesus doesn't always choose to heal us. The Apostle Peter actually talks about a ministry OF SUFFERING! And doesn't Paul call death "GAIN"? If Jesus ALWAYS healed His precious children, we'd have NO funeral homes, NO obits, NO epitaphs, NO ICUs, NO operating theaters - but we DO! Even Pentecostal faith-healers die too.....ie, Jack Coe, A.A. Allen, etc. God CAN heal...He MAY heal...and He may NOT heal.

"To the law & to the testimony. If they speak not according to this Word, it's because there is no light in them."

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

The young man's father is so upset that he sometimes weeps.............

I cry too, sometimes over him.

"To gain" for the young man................

To cause grief for the rest of us..............

[Franky67]

But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was on Him; and with His stripes we ourselves are healed.

Please note the context is refering to our sins

Dear ayin jade,

If you will refer to Matthew 8 verses 16, and 17

In these verses Matthew describes Jesus healing and casting out demons, then Matthew said that this was done to fulfill Isaiah's prophesy saying He, Himself took our infirmities,and carried away our diseases.

Does this really speak of sin to you?

James 5:14,15 says what I believe about healing, If we pray the way described, it says the one who is sick will be restored, I'm not WOF, or any other label, I just believe what my Lord says, no matter WHAT I see. do you believe these two verses?

[yomotalking]

Jade?

[irishcowboy]

whether I live or whether I die, I still proclaim Christ to be the Son of God.

there was a man that had lived many years, out living most of his generation. his wife had gone home as had some of his children. his future did not have much to offer him for he was unable to do things that he enjoyed, even fishing was hard for him to do and he did not enjoy it anymore. His friends were no longer around to visit with, and the children he had left had full lives of their own.

one day this man, during a regular check up, was diagnosed with cancer.

he rejoyced. the doctor quarried him as to his reaction for it was unusual for some one that has cancer to react this way.

he replyed to the doctor that his life was empty and now he has something to occupie his time with and focus his mind on, and he was planning to beat this cancer.

now, whether or not he beat it does not matter.

death is part of this sinful body and one day, should the Lord Tarry, I too will leave this body for the worms and beattles to devour.

a 9 year old little girl had incurrible, a rare form of luekemia, and during the treatments ( her father a full gosple, 100% Bible beliiving preacher ( Assemblies of God Minister, ) that knows the Bible inside and out) and her mother, told her one day after speaking with the doctors, that the chemo and such was not doing any good, and that she could stop taking the treatments.....this little girl rejected that offer, and replyed that how do we know that God is done working with these doctors...... another time she gave her parents a tad bit of knowledge from her wisdom, and told them that you know..... all of ( ALL , NOT PART, ALL, NOT SOME, ALL ) of Gods Children will be healed.... some will be healed hear on earth during this life, some will have to wait until they go home and get their new ( NEW ) bodies.....

another lady, a dear friend of mine, went blind from the chemo and radiation treatments, but that did not stop her.

the entire time, and every time she was in the hospital for treatments, she would go from room to room and minister to others in the hospital, until she went blind, then she enlisted the aid of others to lead her from room to room to witness the Lord.... she praised him even the last days she was awake.... I talked with her on several occassions....

one day her mother walked into the room and she told her mother that she had two visitors..... and they had told her that soon she would be going home, for her work here was done, she continued to witness the Lord even after that, her son ( 11 years old ) would come and read to her every day ..... after she had told her mom that the doctors came in and said that there was nothing more they ccould do, and she smiled... no hair, cant see, and she is smiling.....

her mom took her hom on wednesday, and on friday, she told her mom that she had visiters, i was talking to her mom at the time..... i asked how many, and she said several ( more then just a couple )..... i knew what was going on, she was about to have her final battle, that the Lord would allow satan to have... the visitors were angels, watching over her and going to do this battle for her..... after a while she was resting, then later woke up and asked to do communion, and believe it or not, there was not a single minister that her mom could get hold of to do it for two days.

so her mom and son had communion with her.... Doris was awake again on Saterday, but on Sunday, she was asleep and did not wake up again.... her breathing changed on either sundayd or monday, but her body did not shut down until late tuesday.

I lost a brother when he wasw 6 months old, to pnumonia. he was a Gift from God, for a short while, and God called him back home. yes it was hard, hard on us, but Frankie no longer had to suffer with earthly ailments.

I am ready now to go home, even thou I would love to live a 100 more years......

a customer of mine was telling me the same thing, he is in his 90's, and complains now cause he can not work anymore.... he was working up until about a year ago.... and about 6 months ago, his wife passed away.... he wants to be able to get out and work again, or go home.... he started working when he was about 12 or 13....

This life is a Gift from God, we are to use it as such... we can either squander this life away, or we can really excell with it... the choice is ours, we do not know the number of days we have, only the Lord knows that. we are to live each day as if it is the last and that at any moment we will be standing in front of our maker with our explanation of our life...... and if a person thinks that they are too young or they think they have plenty of time to make things right, well, they had better wise up....

many people have been shot from robbers, snipers, killed in auto accidents, storms, and other ways, from the age of 1 minute until the age of over 100.... it does not matter.... if a person is not ready, then they are out of time, literally.

anyways, it does seem unfair for some one to be taken at such an early age....

a boy from our fellowship is up on manslaughter charges, a friend of his died when he rolled his pickup truck, an 18 yearold boy is facing jail time..... the parents of the dead boy love the one that is facing charges, and do not hold anything over him..... they will be standing before the court for lienency on him. he was not drunk, just speeding and lost control. ..... unfair? yea, maybe..... but who said this life was fair?

I hope some day you find peace, like a couple teenage boys did last year after they had been in a wreck after drinking down a quart of vodka ( 16 and 17 years old ) both have chosen to stand up and be accountable for their actions.... court still pending no one was injured, and neither have touched a drop since. they both witness how the Lord used the accident to save their lives, for they were on their way to a popular swimming hole.....

everyone else was trying to figure out who was to blame, and they are standing there saying that it was themselves... and not even passing the blame to the other boy but taking it as their own.....

mike

[Avidan]

On the subject of "faith". Ever ask why we do not see the miracles of the early church?

Miracles Recorded in the Gospels

Peculiar to Matthew

1. Cure of two blind men Matt 9:27-31

2. Piece of money in the fish's mouth Matt 17:24-27

Peculiar to Mark

1. The deaf and dumb man Mark 7:31-37

2. The blind man of Bethsaida Mark 8:22-26

Peculiar to Luke

1. Jesus passes unseen through the crowd Luke 4:28-30

2. The miraculous draught of fishes Luke 5:4-11

3. The raising of the widow's son at Nain Luke 7:11-18

4. The woman with the spirit of infirmity Luke 13:11-17

5. The man with the dropsy Luke 14:1-6

6. The ten lepers Luke 17:11-19

7. The healing of Malchus Luke 22:50, 51

Peculiar to John

1. Water made wine John 2:1-11

2. Cure of nobleman's son, Capernaum John 4:46-54

3. Impotent man at Bethsaida cured John 5:1-9

4. Man born blind cured John 9:1-7

5. Lazarus raised from the dead John 11:38-44

6. Draught of fishes John 21:1-14

Common to Matthew and Mark

1. Syrophoenician woman's daughter cured Matt 15:28 Mark 7:24

2. Four thousand fed Matt 15:32 Mark 8:1

3. Fig tree blasted Matt 21:18 Mark 11:12

Common to Matthew and Luke

1. Centurion's servant healed Matt 8:5 Luke 7:1

2. Blind and dumb demoniac cured Matt 12:22 Luke 11:14

Common to Mark and Luke

1. Demoniac cured in synagogue at Capernaum Mark 1:23 Luke 4:33

Common to Matthew, Mark and Luke

1. Peter's wife's mother cured Matt 8:14 Mark 1:30 Luke 4:38

2. The tempest stilled Matt 8:23 Mark 4:37 Luke 8:22

3. Demoniacs of Gadara cured Matt 8:28 Mark 5:1 Luke 8:26

4. Leper healed Matt 8:2 Mark 1:40 Luke 5:12

5. Jairus's daughter raised Matt 9:23 Mark 5:23 Luke 8:41

6. Woman's issue of blood cured Matt 9:20 Mark 5:25 Luke 8:43

7. Man sick of the palsy cured Matt 9:2 Mark 2:3 Luke 5:18

8. Man's withered hand cured Matt 12:10 Mark 3:1 Luke 6:6

9. A lunatic child cured Matt 17:14 Mark 9:14 Luke 9:37

10. Two blind men cured Matt 20:29 Mark 10:46 Luke 18:35

Common to Matthew, Mark and John

Jesus walks on the sea Matt 14:25 Mark 6:48 John 6:15

Common to all the evangelists

Jesus feeds 5,000 "in a desert place" Matt 14:15 Mark 6:30 Luke 9:10 John 6:1-14

In addition to the above miracles wrought by Christ, there are four miraculous events connected with his life -

1. The conception by the Holy Ghost Luke 1:35

2. The transfiguration Matt 17:1-8

3. The resurrection John 21:1-14

4. The ascension Luke 2:42-51

WHAT HAS HAPPENED?

iS NOT SOMETHING AMISS?

[ayin jade]

Dear ayin jade,

If you will refer to Matthew 8 verses 16, and 17

In these verses Matthew describes Jesus healing and casting out demons, then Matthew said that this was done to fulfill Isaiah's prophesy saying He, Himself took our infirmities,and carried away our diseases.

Does this really speak of sin to you?

James 5:14,15 says what I believe about healing, If we pray the way described, it says the one who is sick will be restored, I'm not WOF, or any other label, I just believe what my Lord says, no matter WHAT I see. do you believe these two verses?

I only just saw this, and am having trouble with the computer tonight, so not sure how well I can answer this at this time....

One commentary I have states that in context, it says that Jesus took away the diseases as proof of who He was, to show that since He could take away disease, He could take away the penalty of sin too.

Isaiah 53 speaks of Jesus as savior of mankind, the atonement of our sins. This is further borne out in 1Peter 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that dying to sins, we might live to righteousness; by whose stripes you were healed.

Do I believe that God doesnt heal? Nope, I have seen His miracles there. He heals as He wills it. And sometimes He says no to healing. I have also seen James 5 in action. Still God sometimes says no to healing.

Yomo, I know it hurts on this earth. I know you miss him, as do his family and friends. Grief stinks. Take comfort in knowing that He is with the Lord, and that one day you will see him again. The fact that he is gone doesnt make God less than who He is.

I hope this is coherent, it is about 430 am here.