Are We Really 98% Chimp?

[RV_Wizard]

On 4/19/2025 at 6:46 PM, Daniel whalen said:

Unless it's studying that long it is all a theory and not be proven

It is difficult to prove that which did not happen.  Evolution will never be proven but in the hearts of those who wish it to be so, because it never happened,  The alternative, however, is to believe that we were created by God, which carries with it a consequence many do not wish to consider.  Yet, nearly all cultures worship God in some form or another because man knows that the organization of the universe could not have come from randomness.  

According to Richard Dawkins, "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist."  Evolution is a way to explain the origins of the creation without giving any glory to the Creator.  It gives cover to people who wish to teach a false gospel in contradiction to God's word.  It is an inescapable fact that evolution is 100% in opposition to what is recorded in the Bible.  Since an intelligent person cannot believe in two contradictory items, if you believe in evolution you reject the Bible.  If you try to convince others that evolution is true, then you are a false teacher.

[The Barbarian]

On 4/23/2025 at 9:20 AM, RV_Wizard said:

It is difficult to prove that which did not happen.  Evolution will never be proven

We see it happening in all populations.   You might as well say that gravity will never be proven.    I think you've forgotten again, what biological evolution is.   Can you tell us what it is?

On 4/23/2025 at 9:20 AM, RV_Wizard said:

The alternative, however, is to believe that we were created by God,

No, that's wrong too.   God could easily use nature to make our bodies.   In fact, He says the earth brought forth living things as He intended.

On 4/23/2025 at 9:20 AM, RV_Wizard said:

Yet, nearly all cultures worship God in some form or another because man knows that the organization of the universe could not have come from randomness. 

Of course, evolution is not about the organization of the universe, and Darwin's great discovery was that evolution is not random.   

"People are usually down on things they aren't up on."

Everett Dirkson

On 4/23/2025 at 9:20 AM, RV_Wizard said:

According to Richard Dawkins, "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist."

IDer Michael Denton would disagree.    God is not required for teleology.   Nor is evolution inconsistent with God's creation.    It is His creation, after all.   Otherwise it wouldn't exist for us to observe.

As you learned, evolution is consistent with God's word.   It's just inconsistent with the revisions of some YECs.     Not all of them, but most of them.

 

[RV_Wizard]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

We see it happening in all populations. 

No, we see fish coming from fish, animals coming from animals and plants coming from plants.  

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

God could easily use nature to make our bodies.

He could, buy those of us who believe the Bible know He formed us from the dust of the earth on the 6th day of creation.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

As you learned, evolution is consistent with God's word.

As YOU learned, that's a stone cold lie.  God HIMSELF carved the record of the six day creation into stone tablets.  You don't get any closer to God's word than the words God wrote Himself.  If you believe God, you KNOW evolution is a lie.

[The Barbarian]

We see evolution happening in all populations.

13 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

No,

No point in denial.  Did you forget what evolution is, again?    Descent with modification, or a change in allele frequencies in a population over time.   We see that constantly.

13 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

we see fish coming from fish, animals coming from animals and plants coming from plants.  

You've confused evolution with common descent.   Let's see what a knowledgeable and honest  YE creationist has to say about the evidence for that...

Evidences for Darwin’s second expectation — of stratomorphic intermediate species — include such species as Baragwanathia27 (between rhyniophytes and lycopods), Pikaia28 (between echinoderms and chordates), Purgatorius29 (between the tree shrews and the primates), and Proconsul30 (between the non-hominoid primates and the hominoids). Darwin’s third expectation — of higher-taxon stratomorphic intermediates — has been confirmed by such examples as the mammal-like reptile
groups31 between the reptiles and the mammals, and the phenacodontids32 between the horses and their presumedancestors. Darwin’s fourth expectation — of stratomorphic series — has been confirmed by such examples as the early bird series,33 the tetrapod series,34,35 the whale series,36 the various mammal series of the Cenozoic37 (for example, the horse series, the camel series, the elephant series, the pig series, the titanothere series, etc.), the Cantius and Plesiadapus primate series,38 and the hominid series.39 Evidence for not just one but for all three of the species level and above types of stratomorphic intermediates expected by
macroevolutionary theory is surely strong evidence for macroevolutionary theory. Creationists therefore need to accept this fact.

Dr. Kurt Wise, Toward a Creationist Understanding of Transitional Forms

https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j09_2/j09_2_216-222.pdf

As you learned, evolution is consistent with God's word.

13 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

As YOU learned, that's a stone cold lie.

Christians disagree with you.   You're welcome to believe what you like, but it's not orthodox Christian belief.

An informal survey of major Christian organizations and denominations in the United States, based mostly on publicly available statements, indicates that in fact most Christians, as represented by their governing bodies, view evolution as being compatible with their faith. Although on a worldwide basis this is largely a result of the high number (estimated at 1.2 billion) of adherents to Catholicism, even in the United States, where Protestants outnumber Catholics and where anti-evolution sentiment runs high, there is more acceptance than non-acceptance of evolution among Christians, based on statements from their organizing bodies or spokespersons. Protestant groups are divided on the issue, with more “mainstream” denominations (e.g., Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian) accepting evolutionary biology as being compatible with their faith, and more fundamentalist or Pentecostal groups denying compatibility or rejecting evolution. Relevant statements from denominations or organizations both pro and con are included.

https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1007/s12052-010-0221-5

14 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

God HIMSELF carved the record of the six day creation into stone tablets.

Not surprisingly, there's nothing therein that denies evolution.    You just added some things to make it more acceptable to you.   

If you believe God, you wouldn't be making those additions.

 

 

[RV_Wizard]

9 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

An informal survey of major Christian organizations and denominations in the United States, based mostly on publicly available statements, indicates that in fact most Christians, as represented by their governing bodies, view evolution as being compatible with their faith

As my pastor said, many people will go to Hell straight from the church pew because of so-called Christians and pastors who preach and teach false doctrine.  Baptism won't save you.  Confession won't save you.  Attending church services won't save you.  Tithing won't save you.  Repeating prayers won't save you.  Praying to intercessors won't save you.  Claiming to believe in a Bible you misrepresent daily won't save you.  Science won't save you.  Believing in God won't save you.  Satan believes in God.  NOTHING but the shed blood of Jesus and your acceptance of Him as your Lord and Savior will save you.  Nothing more is needed.  Nothing less will work.

I don't care what ANY so-called Christian says.  The authority of God is in His word, not the consensus of wannabe clerics.  In Exodus 20:11, GOD HIMSELF said that He created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them in six days.  That makes anyone who says anything to the contrary a liar.

[The Barbarian]

An informal survey of major Christian organizations and denominations in the United States, based mostly on publicly available statements, indicates that in fact most Christians, as represented by their governing bodies, view evolution as being compatible with their faith

14 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

As my pastor said, many people will go to Hell straight from the church pew because of so-called Christians and pastors who preach and teach false doctrine. 

You aren't going to hell for being a YEC; it's an error, not a heresy.   It's not orthodoxy, but it's not something that affects your salvation.   Only if you make an idol of it, and insist that one must believe it to be saved, does it put your salvation at risk.

14 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

I don't care what ANY so-called Christian says. 

You call yourself a Christian, for example.   But you don't act much like it.    Set your pride aside, and let it be God's way.  

 

 

[Sparks]

11 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

You call yourself a Christian, for example.   But you don't act much like it.    Set your pride aside, and let it be God's way. 

Christians understand that the blood of Jesus Christ, shed on the cross, provides the sole basis for the forgiveness of sin.  God freely offers salvation to those who place their faith in the death and resurrection of Christ as sufficient payment for their sin.

The instructions to accept that gift are in Romans:

(ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

[RV_Wizard]

3 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

most Christians, as represented by their governing bodies, view evolution as being compatible with their faith

You have yet to explain how evolution is compatible with Exodus 20:11.  Most people are smart enough to understand that 6 days and 13.5 billion years are NOT equal time spans.  Either you reject one or the other.  Christians who reject the Bible aren’t “Christ like,” because Christ actually believed the Bible.  In fact, He quoted Genesis repeatedly.

God said 6 days.  You say 13.5 billion years.  Whom shall we believe?

[The Barbarian]

44 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

You have yet to explain how evolution is compatible with Exodus 20:11.  

The point is that you can't make Genesis and your revision of it compatible.    Evolution, as you know, is an observed fact.   So your revision is clearly incompatible with God and His creation.

 Christians who reject the Bible aren’t “Christ like,” because Christ actually believed the Bible.    Why won't you?

 

[RV_Wizard]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The point is that you can't make Genesis and your revision of it compatible.   

[Ad Hom accusation removed] Quoting Genesis as written is NOT a revision.  Rejecting the six day creation which was considered foundational doctrine for 67 centuries isn’t revision, it’s rejection.  Adam believed God made him.  Jesus, who was there, said that man and woman were there from the beginning.  Not day one, but day six.  God Himself affirmed the six day creation.  Moses recorded the creation as told to him by God.  Revision?  Are you giving me credit for penning Genesis?  If that’s the case, I want my royalty check.

Edited May 5 by Michael37
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