The belief that Israel & its Jews are no longer relevant to God

[Marston]

Please correct me if I'm mischaracterizing that position. I've heard some Christians argue that modern-day Israel and its Jews are no longer significant to God because the old covenant is over and done with. 

If that's true, why then did God bring the Jews back to the promised land and ensure that Israel was reborn in 1948? Clearly, they remain God's chosen people. 

So what Biblical arguments for and against?  Thanks.

[Michael37]

38 minutes ago, Marston said:

why then did God bring the Jews back to the promised land and ensure that Israel was reborn in 1948?

Here's what comes from something else God has allowed:

Copilot~

The question of whether God orchestrated the return of the Jewish people to their ancestral homeland and the rebirth of Israel in 1948 is a deeply profound and theological one, often viewed through a variety of lenses depending on faith, history, and interpretation. Below are some reasons people might believe that this event was divinely orchestrated:

1. Fulfillment of Biblical Prophecy

• Many Christians and Jews believe that the establishment of Israel in 1948 fulfills specific biblical prophecies. For example:
  • The Book of Ezekiel (chapters 36–37) speaks of the restoration of Israel and the gathering of the Jewish people from exile back to their land.
  • Isaiah 11:11–12 refers to the Lord bringing back His people from the "four corners of the earth."
• These prophecies, written centuries earlier, are interpreted by some as foretelling the modern return of the Jewish people.

2. Remarkable Historical Events

• The establishment of Israel occurred under extraordinary circumstances: from the horrors of the Holocaust to the Zionist movement's determination and the United Nations' decision to approve the partition plan.
• Some view the survival and flourishing of the Jewish people, despite millennia of persecution, as evidence of divine intervention.

3. Spiritual Significance of the Land

• The land of Israel is considered holy in Judaism and central to God’s covenant with the Jewish people, as described in the Torah.
• Some believe the return was part of a divine plan to restore the Jewish connection to this sacred land.

4. Miracles in Israel's Survival

• The War of Independence in 1948 and subsequent conflicts (e.g., the Six-Day War) have been seen by some as miraculous. The odds of survival for the fledgling nation against well-established armies were slim, yet Israel prevailed.

5. Alignment with God's Purpose

• In certain theological frameworks, the restoration of Israel is viewed as a step in God's broader redemptive plan for humanity and a precursor to end-time events, as described in some interpretations of Christian eschatology.

That said, not everyone shares this perspective. Secular historians might view these events as the result of human effort, political movements, and social dynamics rather than divine intervention. It ultimately depends on one’s worldview and faith.

[Marston]

And doesn't scripture say that Jesus will return to Israel? 

Also, if Israel is irrelevant, why then does seemingly the whole world continue to persecute Israel and Jews? 

God's focus on Israel hasn't changed one iota. There's a reason that God's future capital will be known as "New Jerusalem".

[chirpy]

Agree Marston,  Israel has never lost the focus of God.   Israel is the focus of the end times.  People can debate the status of the Jews and their relationship with God,  but God is definitive in His grasp of Israel.   Israel is still the key to God's investment in man kind.

[Marathoner]

4 hours ago, chirpy said:

Agree Marston,  Israel has never lost the focus of God.   Israel is the focus of the end times.  People can debate the status of the Jews and their relationship with God,  but God is definitive in His grasp of Israel.   Israel is still the key to God's investment in man kind.

I'll disagree with you. The Son of God is the Father's "investment" in mankind, for there is no other name by which we are saved. No one comes to the Father without Him. Notice how the assertions I made are explicitly supported by His apostles and the Lord Himself. It's unambiguously stated in scripture. 

With regard to peculiar systems of eschatology wherein the remaining Jews somehow come to Christ en masse or not, that's a different matter. 

[Indentured Servant]

11 hours ago, Marston said:

I've heard some Christians argue that modern-day Israel and its Jews are no longer significant to God because the old covenant is over and done with

If people are consistently told that the OT and Jews are no longer significant to God, they might not think it's necessary to understand God's covenant with the descendants of Jacob.

Knowing exactly what God promised to them can cause them to doubt what they've been taught. No one wants to doubt their church's teaching.

When someone of a different interpretation, who also trusts what they've been taught, are often viewed as trying to change a person's beliefs. Debates and arguments typically develop out of this.

Edited April 4 by Indentured Servant

[Marston]

3 hours ago, Marathoner said:

I'll disagree with you. The Son of God is the Father's "investment" in mankind, for there is no other name by which we are saved. No one comes to the Father without Him. Notice how the assertions I made are explicitly supported by His apostles and the Lord Himself. It's unambiguously stated in scripture. 

With regard to peculiar systems of eschatology wherein the remaining Jews somehow come to Christ en masse or not, that's a different matter. 

Jesus came to save all people but especially the Jews, correct? They're not yet all following him so it seems that Jesus must return to them again in order to bring in the remaining "lost" sheep, right?

 

[Luther]

On 4/4/2025 at 4:49 AM, Marston said:

Please correct me if I'm mischaracterizing that position. I've heard some Christians argue that modern-day Israel and its Jews are no longer significant to God because the old covenant is over and done with. 

If that's true, why then did God bring the Jews back to the promised land and ensure that Israel was reborn in 1948? Clearly, they remain God's chosen people. 

So what Biblical arguments for and against?  Thanks.

You said: 

"If that's true, why then did God bring the Jews back to the promised land and ensure that Israel was reborn in 1948? Clearly, they remain God's chosen people. 

So what Biblical arguments for and against?  Thanks

Thank you for the opportunity to reply. 

There are three major factors that I consider would radically change everything we've been led to believe about Biblical doctrine in the last 150 years concerning the importance of the  "jew " in God's plan of salvation  (which, at the end of the day, is all that is really relevant).

1) Is there a scriptural mandate to uphold people of "jewish" descent to a higher standard, calling or treatment than any other person in the world in regards to the redemption of mankind? 

2) Are  the people who established the state of Israel in 1948 actually ancestors of the OT nation of Israel? In other words, do they have Semitic roots? Hebrew DNA? 

And in conjunction with this question, if God is still placing emphasis on blood descendency, at what point would He consider one to be qualified? Is there a certain percentage of Hebrew blood that makes the cut? This is critically important to ask, because even at the time of Moses the children of Israel were mixing with other tribes like the Canaanites for example. Fast forward through hundreds of generations of this kind of activity, how does one distinguish themselves from anyone else? Here is an example of what I mean:

(A.I. overview):

Here's a more detailed explanation:

DNA Inheritance:

You inherit roughly 50% of your DNA from each parent, who in turn inherited 50% from their parents, and so on. This means that with each generation, the proportion of DNA inherited from a specific ancestor halves. 

Dilution over Generations:

After 10 generations, you only carry the DNA of about half of your ancestors. 

After 20 generations, about 1 out of 1,000. 

After 30 generations, about 1 out of 500,000. 

The 10 tribes of Israel were scattered into the nations almost three thousand years ago. They didn't form a country like Poland or Russia. They were nomadic people. Same thing with Judah and Benjamin. Most people are walking around with Hebrew DNA. Are we Israelites as well? Like I said already, what's the cut- off point? 

3) Did God specifically say in His Word that any physical promise of land ( or anything else for that matter) made to the 12 tribes of Israel ( Abraham's seed, Genesis 12:7) was fulfilled? Having said that, is there a spiritual aspect to the land as well? Can there be an eternal, heavenly aspect of the land as well?

I believe that understanding this "duality" of interpretation plays a huge role in finding out THE TRUE NATURE of God's promise to  "Israel", the Israel that is relevant in His salvation plan. 

4) Do you consider the establishment and daily activity of the state of Israel of having God's blessing? And if so, how do you compare the teachings of Jesus Christ to this nation of His blessing? 

 

[Marathoner]

On 4/4/2025 at 4:28 PM, Marston said:

Jesus came to save all people but especially the Jews, correct? They're not yet all following him so it seems that Jesus must return to them again in order to bring in the remaining "lost" sheep, right?

 

He came to the Jews first, but God never was a respecter of persons; read Peter's declaration in Acts 10:34 and the Apostle Paul's words in the second chapter of Romans. The Lord never was a respecter of persons? 

Indeed. Read Isaiah 66: the Lord has regard for one who is humble and contrite in spirit, and who trembles at His word.

Seeing as how no distinctions of genealogy nor status are made in Jesus Christ --- Galatians 3:28 --- this doctrine of bloodlines and heritage is not supported by scripture. Many Jews were added to the Body of Christ, and some continue to be today. 

[Marathoner]

The belief that Jews no longer matter to the Lord is error for clearly, all men and women matter to the Lord; so much so that He laid down His life for us all. There is no such thing as a "replacement" for truly, unity is within Jesus Christ and His Body. I couldn't possibly care less what dispensational premillennialism teaches for the testimony of scripture is ever so clear on this matter. The "natural branches" and the "wild branches" are grafted into the same Vine. Who is the Vine?

The Son of God, Jesus Christ (John 15). He is the true Vine.