This is war?

[Daniel whalen]

7 minutes ago, farouk said:

I'm not in the US, but I understand there is a saying, Freedom isn't free...

Yes 

TOTALLY!

A lot of military personnel have paid the ultimate price for it and they should be honored for it 

[farouk]

Just now, Daniel whalen said:

Yes 

TOTALLY!

A lot of military personnel have paid the ultimate price for it and they should be honored for it 

It's a serious business.

I do also think that for the believer - whether or not in the military - there are also spiritual values which do transcend whether or not one is in the military.

[Daniel whalen]

2 minutes ago, farouk said:

It's a serious business.

I do also think that for the believer - whether or not in the military - there are also spiritual values which do transcend whether or not one is in the military.

Yes 

I might get a faith based tattoo like maybe my name if the holy spirit tell's me too but that is it 

[Luther]

13 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Luther.

My friend and brother, while some of this may be true, one absolutely MUST SEE the HAND OF GOD behind all of history! No "ruling class of elites" have lasted so long as to be in that much control. It is GOD behind the scenes who is bending the passage of time to His Will!

(This is turning out to be a rather lengthy post. Please, read it to the end. It all builds to the conclusion.)

I would recommend one read the series of The Zion Chronicles by Bodie and Brock Thoene, starting with the first book, The Gates of Zion. It tells the researched history of the beginning of the modern Jewish state of Israel, told in the literary style from a person's first hand experiences with the forming of the nation and the obstacles that had to be overcome. What's even more interesting is how there are moments in history that CLEARLY show God's blessings upon the new state, with events that otherwise would not have been humanly possible! God HAD to intervene in human history to re-form His Realm for His Messiah to be King yet to return.

The forward for the first book reads this way:

"The Zion Chronicles series covers the events surrounding Israel's statehood in 1948. Each book vividly portrays the intense struggle of the Jewish people in the aftermath of the Holocaust and the forces, within and without, which engulf the Middle East in conflict and controversy even today. Will there ever be peace in Zion? The Jewish people wonder as they stream into the British Mandate of Palestine after the devastation of World War II. What has happened to God's promises to their nation? These updated classics feature a new look and added study questions suitable for individual use or group discussion."

So, you reject the Tanakh? The "Old Testament?" That's what you're saying when you say, "I in no way believe that God has any blessing in war."

An "unction" is an "anointing." That's what the word "χρῖσμα" means. It comes from "χρίω" meaning "to rub or smear with oil," which is also the root word for "Χριστός" or "Christos" from which we get the title "Christ."

And, YES! There were priests, judges, and kings - judges over the people - who were anointed to win against the nations inhabiting the Land promised to 'AaVraahaam ("Abraham"), Yitschaq ("Isaac"), and Ya`aqoV ("Jacob"). If you'll check it out, the reason why they lived in Egypt 430 years was because "the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet full." (Check the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 15:12-16.) God allowed time to pass until they had committed iniquity to the point that God had had enough.

That was when He sent Mosheh ("Moses") and 'Aharown ("Aaron"), the first priest, the High Priest, who was anointed with the Holy Anointing Oil (Exodus 30:22-33), as were his sons. They were the ones who led the children of Israel into the battles, which belonged to the LORD.

So, they fought Amelek, Sihon king of the Amorites, and Og king of Bashan, and the tribes of Reuben, Gad, and half the tribe of Manasseh claimed their lands on the east side of the Jordan River. Then Mosheh passed away, and Yhowshuwa` ("Joshua") took the leadership as instructed by God. And, throughout the lifetime of Yhowshuwa`, they were taking the Land promised to them, driving them out, as instructed, while GOD did the greater part of driving them out by sending the HORNETS! (Exodus 23:28).

When the children of Israel trusted God to win their battles and seek His help in the battles, they won. When they tried to do it on their own or in their own power, they failed. So, it was an incomplete "victory" at the end of Yhowshuwa`s life, but they DID have an entrenched hold on the Land.

So, for another 400 years, they had the pattern of failure in trusting God, subjection to an enemy, turning back to God, and God would give them a leader (a judge) who would conquer that enemy and give them victory and peace for a while, until they once again forgot God, failing to trust God again. Then, they demanded God to give them a king "like all the other nations had." So, God said, "It's a little early," but He instructed Shmuw'eel ("Samuel") to give them a king, and Sha'uwl ("Saul") was anointed as king. God had to reject this king because He would not obey God -THREE TIMES, and God gave them another king "after God's own heart;" that is, seeking God's mind for the things he did as king. While nobody's perfect and David failed miserably with the matter of Bat-Sheva' ("Bathsheba") and 'Uwriyaah ("Uriah"), He was still a more humble king and loved God, submitting to his punishment and holding himself to blame, while still seeking to God for His forgiveness and mercy.

David was given a promise and a covenant that there would be a "Seed" (one of his own line of children) who would be the ultimate Anointed One, who would reign on David's throne FOREVER "and of His kingdom there would be no end!" (2 Samuel 7, repeated in 1 Chronicles 17 and foretold to Miryam "Mary" before His fertilization).

What IS the value of life? First, what is "life?" Life is a condition of human flesh that WORKS as designed by God! He made 'Aadaam ("Adam," meaning "red") from the red earth as a complete work of art but without "life," and He "jump-started" him with a breath, by "puffing into his nostrils the puff of living things," and human life took off! No human being has been created this way since. Only when the Lord Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") Himself was raised from the dead did something similar happen.

Now, when children are born, they must first also be "jump started" with a breath when first they cry, but their bodies are made from the genetic material from both parents by myosis (producing "seed") and conception.

God alone gives life, and God can take it away. Furthermore, He gave that power to His Son, for Yeeshuwa` said,

John 5:25-27 (KJV)

25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man."

So, yes, life is precious because ONLY God could give it to a person. One may be able to kill an individual, but the murderer has no power to determine who will be given back life and who will suffer the Second Death. That determination is given to the Son of God, who always confers with His Father for HIS Will - what HE wants.

One must remember that, even those who may have "died needlessly" have not necessarily been remanded to death permanently. Yeeshuwa` also told Marta ("Martha"),

John 11:25-26 (KJV)

25 Jesus said unto her,

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die (Greek: οὐ μὴ ἀποθάνῃ = ou mee apothanee = "not-positively not-negatively shall-die-off"). Believest thou this?"

And, we read in Revelation 19 (which John also wrote):

Revelation 19:11-15 (KJV)

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called "The Word of God." 14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God (a quotation and fulfillment from Isaiah 63:1-6).

Furthermore, we read,

John 5:19-24 (KJV)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth (brings back to life) [them]; even so the Son quickeneth (brings back to life) whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

So, when we read of the Great White Throne Judgment, we know who is seated upon that Great White Throne:

Revelation 20:10-15 (KJV)

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him (the Son of God) that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So, Yeeshuwa`, the Messiah of God to be King and "King of kings" (World Emperor), and who is the Son of God, is the MASTER OF LIFE AND DEATH! He determines who will live forever, raising them to life again, and who will die the Second Death, raising them to life again to be cast into the Lake of Fire forever.

THAT is the value of life! The value that Yeeshuwa` puts on a life. Now, if God is going to regain His Land, there SHALL be war, and Yeeshuwa` Himself is going to be the greatest protagonist of that war, slicing them with the "sharp sword" that comes "out of his mouth." Later, He shall raise them to life again, judge them out of the books, and consign those who rejected Him to the Lake of Fire.

Sorry, but that is BACKWARD THINKING!! There is MUCH future glory for national Israel as they accept God's Messiah when He returns!

Now, I, too, can understand the doctrinal deceptions that have been brought upon the churches by lovey-dovey pacifists who don't know that they are supposed to SUPPORT Israel, who STILL has a place as Yeeshuwa`s KINGDOM, where He will begin to reign from the throne of His father David!

Isaiah 66:4-21 (KJV)

4 "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose [that] in which I delighted not. 5 HEAR THE WORD OF THE LORD, YE THAT TREMBLE AT HIS WORD; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said,

"'Let the LORD be glorified':

"but he shall appear to YOUR joy, and THEY shall be ASHAMED! 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies. 7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? [or] SHALL A NATION BE BORN AT ONCE? for AS SOON AS ZION TRAVAILED, SHE BROUGHT FORTH HER CHILDREN. 9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth?" saith the LORD: "shall I cause to bring forth, and shut [the womb]?" saith thy God.

10 Rejoice ye WITH Jerusalem, and be glad WITH her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy WITH her, all ye that mourn for her: 11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12 For thus saith the LORD,

"Behold, I will extend peace to her (Jerusalem) like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon [her] sides, and be dandled upon [her] knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14 And when ye see [this], your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and [his] indignation toward his enemies. 15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together," saith the LORD.

18 "For I [know] their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren [for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem," saith the LORD, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take of them for priests [and] for Levites," saith the LORD.

So, one should NOT make the mistake of thinking that 'the "Church" has REPLACED Israel.' To the contrary, those of us who were Gentiles (or even us Jews who were RAISED as though we were Gentiles), are going to be PLEASANTLY SURPRISED to learn that we have become a PART of that Kingdom! We who call ourselves Christians are NOT all who'll be at the marriage feast to dine!

You quoted: "It tells the researched history of the beginning of the modern Jewish state of Israel, told in the literary style from a person's first hand experiences with the forming of the nation and the obstacles that had to be overcome."

I will definitely look into it.

Here is an excerpt from the book " the BAD WAR", in which we can get a glimpse of perhaps the earliest plans for a future state of Israel:

AUGUST, 1897

THE 1 st ZIONIST CONGRESS MEETS IN BASEL SWITZERLAND / THE PLOT TO STEAL PALESTINE IS HATCHED

The First Zionist Congress is held in Basel, Switzerland and is chaired by Theodore Herzl. Jewish delegates from across Europe agree that Palestine should be given to them. The idea of a Jewish takeover of Palestine had been floating around for decades. Whenever Russia advanced its interests in the area, Rothschild's Britain would keep Russia out.

The problem is that Palestine is 95% Arab, and falls under the sovereignty of the Ottoman Turks. Unless the Turks agree to give Palestine to the Jews, the Zionist dream cannot be realized.

..............................

The first Zionist congress played a critical role for sure. Also the Rothschilds big time. More on that later.

I will check out the rest of your post later on. Thank you.

[Retrobyter]

12 hours ago, Luther said:

You quoted: "It tells the researched history of the beginning of the modern Jewish state of Israel, told in the literary style from a person's first hand experiences with the forming of the nation and the obstacles that had to be overcome."

I will definitely look into it.

Here is an excerpt from the book " the BAD WAR", in which we can get a glimpse of perhaps the earliest plans for a future state of Israel:

AUGUST, 1897

THE 1 st ZIONIST CONGRESS MEETS IN BASEL SWITZERLAND / THE PLOT TO STEAL PALESTINE IS HATCHED

Shabbat shalom, @Luther.

"TO STEAL PALESTINE"? Did you know that it was the Romans who first called the Land of Israel "Palestine?" And, they did it to PROVOKE the children of Israel, the remnant of the Kingdom of Judah, who returned after Koresh (Cyrus the Great of Persia) issued the decree that they could go home, because "Palestine" is the Roman way of saying "Philistia," the land of the PHILISTINES! And, it's been so labeled since the Roman Empire. It was the ROMANS who stole the Land from Yhuwdaah (Judaea)!

The Philistines were prominent during the days of Sha'uwl ("Saul") and David. Many know the account of David and the giant Golyat ("Goliath"). He was a Philistine. They were not so prominent during our Master's days, although a remnant of them still existed. They had five prominent cities during the days of Shimshown ("Samson") down to David: 

1 Samuel 6:17 (KJV)

17 And these are the golden emerods which the Philistines returned for a trespass offering unto the LORD; for Ashdod one, for Gaza one, for Askelon one, for Gath one, for Ekron one;

However, if one does the research, one will find that these are now GONE, having been long ago conquered by Alexander the Great, and then by the Egyptian Ptolemies and the Syrian Seleucids! Instead, the  seaside communities of the plains have been taken by a people who were given the land of that territory - the "Gaza Strip" - by Israel, and they had NOTHING to do with ancient Philistia! They were originally Muslim Arabs migrating primarily from Egypt.

As we read from Paul in Romans 11, recognizing that he is contrasting Israel with the Gentiles, particularly potential believers in both groups, 

Romans 11:25-31 (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written,

"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Isaiah 59:20,21; 27:9 [see LXX]; Jeremiah 31:33,34)

28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes:
BUT as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

(In other words, God doesn't renege on His gifts or on His calling, both of which apply to the children of Israel.)

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God,
yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed,
that THROUGH YOUR MERCY they also may obtain mercy.

 

12 hours ago, Luther said:

The First Zionist Congress is held in Basel, Switzerland and is chaired by Theodore Herzl. Jewish delegates from across Europe agree that Palestine should be given to them. The idea of a Jewish takeover of Palestine had been floating around for decades. Whenever Russia advanced its interests in the area, Rothschild's Britain would keep Russia out.

And, why shouldn't they plan to GO HOME? To "make aliyah!" It was TIME for them to go back to the Land that God promised them FOREVER!

12 hours ago, Luther said:

The problem is that Palestine is 95% Arab, and falls under the sovereignty of the Ottoman Turks. Unless the Turks agree to give Palestine to the Jews, the Zionist dream cannot be realized.

Well, that's not true. Never heard of "conquest" before? The conquered do NOT need to be ASKED for permission! And, the League of Nations DID conquer the Ottoman Empire (which was already waning). The Ottoman Empire fell in 1908 and its dissolution was completed in 1922.

And, we're told by Google,

"After 1922, Palestine was under the control of the British Mandate, established by the League of Nations in July 1922. This mandate incorporated the principles of the Balfour Declaration, which supported the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. The British administration of Palestine continued until 1948 when the mandate was terminated and the State of Israel was declared."

12 hours ago, Luther said:

..............................

The first Zionist congress played a critical role for sure. Also the Rothschilds big time. More on that later.

I will check out the rest of your post later on. Thank you.

And, I, too, will read "the BAD WAR."

[Daniel whalen]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, @Luther.

"TO STEAL PALESTINE"? Did you know that it was the Romans who first called the Land of Israel "Palestine?" And, they did it to PROVOKE the children of Israel, the remnant of the Kingdom of Judah, who returned after Koresh (Cyrus the Great of Persia) issued the decree that they could go home, because "Palestine" is the Roman way of saying "Philistia," the land of the PHILISTINES! And, it's been so labeled since the Roman Empire. It was the ROMANS who stole the Land from Yhuwdaah (Judaea)!

The Philistines were prominent during the days of Sha'uwl ("Saul") and David. Many know the account of David and the giant Golyat ("Goliath"). He was a Philistine. They were not so prominent during our Master's days, although a remnant of them still existed. They had five prominent cities during the days of Shimshown ("Samson") down to David: 

1 Samuel 6:17 (KJV)

17 And these are the golden emerods which the Philistines returned for a trespass offering unto the LORD; for Ashdod one, for Gaza one, for Askelon one, for Gath one, for Ekron one;

However, if one does the research, one will find that these are now GONE, having been long ago conquered by Alexander the Great, and then by the Egyptian Ptolemies and the Syrian Seleucids! Instead, the  seaside communities of the plains have been taken by a people who were given the land of that territory - the "Gaza Strip" - by Israel, and they had NOTHING to do with ancient Philistia! They were originally Muslim Arabs migrating primarily from Egypt.

As we read from Paul in Romans 11, recognizing that he is contrasting Israel with the Gentiles, particularly potential believers in both groups, 

Romans 11:25-31 (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written,

"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Isaiah 59:20,21; 27:9 [see LXX]; Jeremiah 31:33,34)

28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes:
BUT as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

(In other words, God doesn't renege on His gifts or on His calling, both of which apply to the children of Israel.)

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God,
yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed,
that THROUGH YOUR MERCY they also may obtain mercy.

 

And, why shouldn't they plan to GO HOME? To "make aliyah!" It was TIME for them to go back to the Land that God promised them FOREVER!

Well, that's not true. Never heard of "conquest" before? The conquered do NOT need to be ASKED for permission! And, the League of Nations DID conquer the Ottoman Empire (which was already waning). The Ottoman Empire fell in 1908 and its dissolution was completed in 1922.

And, we're told by Google,

"After 1922, Palestine was under the control of the British Mandate, established by the League of Nations in July 1922. This mandate incorporated the principles of the Balfour Declaration, which supported the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. The British administration of Palestine continued until 1948 when the mandate was terminated and the State of Israel was declared."

And, I, too, will read "the BAD WAR."

I had some trouble handle my Bible while reading the NT and when to OT when kinda depressed I read Psalm's and Psalm's 41 stuck in my mind 

You should read it and I think it's God's will to direct to it @Luther

Not 100% sure but He might but I don't argue with God 

[Luther]

5 hours ago, Daniel whalen said:

I had some trouble handle my Bible while reading the NT and when to OT when kinda depressed I read Psalm's and Psalm's 41 stuck in my mind 

You should read it and I think it's God's will to direct to it @Luther

Not 100% sure but He might but I don't argue with God 

I'm sorry what is the context of Psalm 41?

[Luther]

On 4/25/2025 at 5:29 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Luther.

My friend and brother, while some of this may be true, one absolutely MUST SEE the HAND OF GOD behind all of history! No "ruling class of elites" have lasted so long as to be in that much control. It is GOD behind the scenes who is bending the passage of time to His Will!

(This is turning out to be a rather lengthy post. Please, read it to the end. It all builds to the conclusion.)

I would recommend one read the series of The Zion Chronicles by Bodie and Brock Thoene, starting with the first book, The Gates of Zion. It tells the researched history of the beginning of the modern Jewish state of Israel, told in the literary style from a person's first hand experiences with the forming of the nation and the obstacles that had to be overcome. What's even more interesting is how there are moments in history that CLEARLY show God's blessings upon the new state, with events that otherwise would not have been humanly possible! God HAD to intervene in human history to re-form His Realm for His Messiah to be King yet to return.

The forward for the first book reads this way:

"The Zion Chronicles series covers the events surrounding Israel's statehood in 1948. Each book vividly portrays the intense struggle of the Jewish people in the aftermath of the Holocaust and the forces, within and without, which engulf the Middle East in conflict and controversy even today. Will there ever be peace in Zion? The Jewish people wonder as they stream into the British Mandate of Palestine after the devastation of World War II. What has happened to God's promises to their nation? These updated classics feature a new look and added study questions suitable for individual use or group discussion."

So, you reject the Tanakh? The "Old Testament?" That's what you're saying when you say, "I in no way believe that God has any blessing in war."

An "unction" is an "anointing." That's what the word "χρῖσμα" means. It comes from "χρίω" meaning "to rub or smear with oil," which is also the root word for "Χριστός" or "Christos" from which we get the title "Christ."

And, YES! There were priests, judges, and kings - judges over the people - who were anointed to win against the nations inhabiting the Land promised to 'AaVraahaam ("Abraham"), Yitschaq ("Isaac"), and Ya`aqoV ("Jacob"). If you'll check it out, the reason why they lived in Egypt 430 years was because "the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet full." (Check the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 15:12-16.) God allowed time to pass until they had committed iniquity to the point that God had had enough.

That was when He sent Mosheh ("Moses") and 'Aharown ("Aaron"), the first priest, the High Priest, who was anointed with the Holy Anointing Oil (Exodus 30:22-33), as were his sons. They were the ones who led the children of Israel into the battles, which belonged to the LORD.

So, they fought Amelek, Sihon king of the Amorites, and Og king of Bashan, and the tribes of Reuben, Gad, and half the tribe of Manasseh claimed their lands on the east side of the Jordan River. Then Mosheh passed away, and Yhowshuwa` ("Joshua") took the leadership as instructed by God. And, throughout the lifetime of Yhowshuwa`, they were taking the Land promised to them, driving them out, as instructed, while GOD did the greater part of driving them out by sending the HORNETS! (Exodus 23:28).

When the children of Israel trusted God to win their battles and seek His help in the battles, they won. When they tried to do it on their own or in their own power, they failed. So, it was an incomplete "victory" at the end of Yhowshuwa`s life, but they DID have an entrenched hold on the Land.

So, for another 400 years, they had the pattern of failure in trusting God, subjection to an enemy, turning back to God, and God would give them a leader (a judge) who would conquer that enemy and give them victory and peace for a while, until they once again forgot God, failing to trust God again. Then, they demanded God to give them a king "like all the other nations had." So, God said, "It's a little early," but He instructed Shmuw'eel ("Samuel") to give them a king, and Sha'uwl ("Saul") was anointed as king. God had to reject this king because He would not obey God -THREE TIMES, and God gave them another king "after God's own heart;" that is, seeking God's mind for the things he did as king. While nobody's perfect and David failed miserably with the matter of Bat-Sheva' ("Bathsheba") and 'Uwriyaah ("Uriah"), He was still a more humble king and loved God, submitting to his punishment and holding himself to blame, while still seeking to God for His forgiveness and mercy.

David was given a promise and a covenant that there would be a "Seed" (one of his own line of children) who would be the ultimate Anointed One, who would reign on David's throne FOREVER "and of His kingdom there would be no end!" (2 Samuel 7, repeated in 1 Chronicles 17 and foretold to Miryam "Mary" before His fertilization).

What IS the value of life? First, what is "life?" Life is a condition of human flesh that WORKS as designed by God! He made 'Aadaam ("Adam," meaning "red") from the red earth as a complete work of art but without "life," and He "jump-started" him with a breath, by "puffing into his nostrils the puff of living things," and human life took off! No human being has been created this way since. Only when the Lord Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") Himself was raised from the dead did something similar happen.

Now, when children are born, they must first also be "jump started" with a breath when first they cry, but their bodies are made from the genetic material from both parents by myosis (producing "seed") and conception.

God alone gives life, and God can take it away. Furthermore, He gave that power to His Son, for Yeeshuwa` said,

John 5:25-27 (KJV)

25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man."

So, yes, life is precious because ONLY God could give it to a person. One may be able to kill an individual, but the murderer has no power to determine who will be given back life and who will suffer the Second Death. That determination is given to the Son of God, who always confers with His Father for HIS Will - what HE wants.

One must remember that, even those who may have "died needlessly" have not necessarily been remanded to death permanently. Yeeshuwa` also told Marta ("Martha"),

John 11:25-26 (KJV)

25 Jesus said unto her,

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die (Greek: οὐ μὴ ἀποθάνῃ = ou mee apothanee = "not-positively not-negatively shall-die-off"). Believest thou this?"

And, we read in Revelation 19 (which John also wrote):

Revelation 19:11-15 (KJV)

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called "The Word of God." 14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God (a quotation and fulfillment from Isaiah 63:1-6).

Furthermore, we read,

John 5:19-24 (KJV)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth (brings back to life) [them]; even so the Son quickeneth (brings back to life) whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

So, when we read of the Great White Throne Judgment, we know who is seated upon that Great White Throne:

Revelation 20:10-15 (KJV)

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him (the Son of God) that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So, Yeeshuwa`, the Messiah of God to be King and "King of kings" (World Emperor), and who is the Son of God, is the MASTER OF LIFE AND DEATH! He determines who will live forever, raising them to life again, and who will die the Second Death, raising them to life again to be cast into the Lake of Fire forever.

THAT is the value of life! The value that Yeeshuwa` puts on a life. Now, if God is going to regain His Land, there SHALL be war, and Yeeshuwa` Himself is going to be the greatest protagonist of that war, slicing them with the "sharp sword" that comes "out of his mouth." Later, He shall raise them to life again, judge them out of the books, and consign those who rejected Him to the Lake of Fire.

Sorry, but that is BACKWARD THINKING!! There is MUCH future glory for national Israel as they accept God's Messiah when He returns!

Now, I, too, can understand the doctrinal deceptions that have been brought upon the churches by lovey-dovey pacifists who don't know that they are supposed to SUPPORT Israel, who STILL has a place as Yeeshuwa`s KINGDOM, where He will begin to reign from the throne of His father David!

Isaiah 66:4-21 (KJV)

4 "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose [that] in which I delighted not. 5 HEAR THE WORD OF THE LORD, YE THAT TREMBLE AT HIS WORD; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said,

"'Let the LORD be glorified':

"but he shall appear to YOUR joy, and THEY shall be ASHAMED! 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies. 7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? [or] SHALL A NATION BE BORN AT ONCE? for AS SOON AS ZION TRAVAILED, SHE BROUGHT FORTH HER CHILDREN. 9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth?" saith the LORD: "shall I cause to bring forth, and shut [the womb]?" saith thy God.

10 Rejoice ye WITH Jerusalem, and be glad WITH her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy WITH her, all ye that mourn for her: 11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12 For thus saith the LORD,

"Behold, I will extend peace to her (Jerusalem) like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon [her] sides, and be dandled upon [her] knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14 And when ye see [this], your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and [his] indignation toward his enemies. 15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together," saith the LORD.

18 "For I [know] their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren [for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem," saith the LORD, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take of them for priests [and] for Levites," saith the LORD.

So, one should NOT make the mistake of thinking that 'the "Church" has REPLACED Israel.' To the contrary, those of us who were Gentiles (or even us Jews who were RAISED as though we were Gentiles), are going to be PLEASANTLY SURPRISED to learn that we have become a PART of that Kingdom! We who call ourselves Christians are NOT all who'll be at the marriage feast to dine!

You said: " We who call ourselves Christians are NOT all who'll be at the marriage feast to dine! "

This is what I'm talking about with your backwards theology. It's like you're giving the Old Covenant preeminence over the New covenant by making this statement.

THERE'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE FROM ALL NATIONS AT THAT MARRIAGE SUPPER....WHO DOESN'T REALIZE THIS?

 

[farouk]

On 4/26/2025 at 3:59 PM, Daniel whalen said:

I had some trouble handle my Bible while reading the NT and when to OT when kinda depressed I read Psalm's and Psalm's 41 stuck in my mind 

You should read it and I think it's God's will to direct to it @Luther

Not 100% sure but He might but I don't argue with God 

Hi @Daniel whalen Yes, the Psalms contain such a wealth of spiritual wisdom and experience: the highs, the lows, the Messianic content, the faith.....................

[farouk]

On 4/25/2025 at 10:28 AM, Daniel whalen said:

Yes 

I might get a faith based tattoo

@Daniel whalen Because of the topic, answered on the other thread... (unless you still want to talk about it here...)