Free from sin?

[St_Worm2]

7 hours ago, Live2believe said:

Hi David, please consider that John was also talking to Gnostics - believers who did not believe in sin. 

Hello again Live2believe, the core beliefs/teachings of Gnosticism and Christianity are radically different from one another, so why do you refer to Gnostics as "believers", as if they were Christians 

Granted, we do have Gnostics today who claim to be Christians too, but the fact that they claim to be Christians doesn't mean that they are.

Here's a short article on Christian Gnosticism (if anyone would care to read it).

Finally, the Apostle addressed many of the problems that the Gnostics were creating for the early church in his Epistle, but his purpose was to warn the church about them and the dangers that Gnosticism posed (so he wasn't "talking to" the Gnostics, rather, he was warning his congregants, and us, about both them and what they taught).

I'm certain that he shared the Gospel with some of the Gnostics of his day, hoping that some of them would leave the Gnostic faith, come to Christ and be saved).

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - I'll finish replying to the rest of your last post to me in my next reply to you, just FYI.

Edited April 30 by St_Worm2
For a bit more clarity.

[St_Worm2]

7 hours ago, Live2believe said:

Therefore, "we" was a general statement that people sin.

Also notice with the "children" and "fathers" that the believers had different levels of spiritual maturity, i.e., not everyone was born again.

Hello again Live2believe, I did my best to explain to you/show you, at length in this thread (here), that the "we", "us", "our", "ourselves" and "you" in 1 John 1-2 is specific to Christians, not a general reference to everybody/everywhere.

Apparently however, my best wasn't good enough 

Look, I get it. I realize that your presupposition (that believers are perfectly sinless on this side of the grave) requires it, but the context of 1 John 1-2 simply and clearly does not teach it or allow for that interpretation. 

Lastly, ALL true believers, including babes in Christ, are "born again", or they are not/cannot be believers. The "dead" cannot respond in faith to the Lord's call because "dead" people cannot "do", well, anything!

This is why the Lord Jesus told Nicodemus that a person MUST be born again to even see the Kingdom of God, much less enter into it .. e.g. John 3:3, 5. 

So, all (true) Christians are "born again", no matter what level of maturity in the faith they are at, be they newborn children (babes in Christ), young men or fathers. If anyone has not been "quickened"/"made alive" and "born again", that person is still dead (spiritually) in their trespasses and sins and unable to come to faith .. e.g. Ephesians 2:1-3. They still need to be "made alive" by God .. e.g. Ephesians 2:4-5.

The Apostle Paul does a nice job of contrasting believers (who are all both born again and spiritually alive .. see v12-13, 15-16 below) with unbelievers (who are not, who are still "natural" men/women rather than "spiritual" men/women .. see v14 below).

1 Corinthians 2
12 We have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 
13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 

15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 
16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ. 

God bless you!!

--David

Quote

1 Corinthians 1
18      The word of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God.

Edited April 30 by St_Worm2
Formatting (some of which seems to only be available when editing?)

[Michael37]

7 hours ago, Live2believe said:

Hi David, please consider that John was also talking to Gnostics - believers who did not believe in sin. Therefore, "we" was a general statement that people sin. Also notice with the "children" and "fathers" that the believers had different levels of spiritual maturity, i.e., not everyone was born again.

I wouldn't classify someone who didn't believe in sin as a follower of Christ.

1Jn 5:13  I have written these things to you who believe on the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have everlasting life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God.

[St_Worm2]

On 4/28/2025 at 10:40 AM, Live2believe said:

Please consider 1 John 3:6: ...whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. If "we" in 1 John 1 are those who are born again, who "have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled", and also who sin (1John 1:8), then it is in direct contradiction to 1 John 3:6,9.

I meant to reply to this as well, but I don't believe that I did (so I will do so now).

What is in "direct contradiction" (to 1 John 1-2) is your exegesis or interpretation of the verses from 1 John 3 that you just mentioned.

MANY verses SEEM to say one thing (at least at first blush), but upon careful consideration/further study, we realize that what we "thought" they said, isn't even close to what they actually mean 

Here are a couple of other "clear" verses for you to consider.

Luke 14
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. 

1 Timothy 2
15 Women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. 

The obvious problem is that if we decide to take what these two verses appear to say at first blush, we end up with the Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul contradicting what they taught elsewhere in the Bible.

Surely you cannot believe that women are saved by their works and by giving birth, or that the Lord Jesus requires us to "hate" our mothers and fathers, wives and children if we want to be His disciples? Likewise, don't do this kind of thing with the verses that you mentioned from 1 John 3, figure out what the Apostle John really means there instead 

God bless you!!

--David

Edited May 1 by St_Worm2
Formatting!

[Vine Abider]

On 4/25/2025 at 7:28 AM, Live2believe said:

Did the Savior free the believers from sin?

I would say yes.  And in the spiritual realm it is certainly true, but we still live with flesh hanging on us.  And Paul tells us in Romans 7 that sin dwells in our flesh. Therefore, this verse in Romans 8:13 comes into play: "If by the spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live."

So if we are walking according to the spirit (which is in union with Christ) we will be in the full reality of not sinning, but if we walk according to flesh, then we are in the realm of sin and death and subject to its dark influence.

[Michael37]

15 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I would say yes.  And in the spiritual realm it is certainly true, but we still live with flesh hanging on us.  And Paul tells us in Romans 7 that sin dwells in our flesh. Therefore, this verse in Romans 8:13 comes into play: "If by the spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live."

So if we are walking according to the spirit (which is in union with Christ) we will be in the full reality of not sinning, but if we walk according to flesh, then we are in the realm of sin and death and subject to its dark influence.

I have been taught and believe that in Christ we are free from the penalty of sin, but still live in peril of the presence and power of sin, providentially having the resources in Christ to overcome these.

1. Freedom from the Penalty of Sin:

   • Romans 8:1: "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
   • 2 Corinthians 5:21: "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

2. Living in the Presence and Power of Sin:

   • Romans 7:21-25: Paul speaks of the ongoing struggle with sin, saying, "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
   • Galatians 5:17: "For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh."

3. Resources in Christ to Overcome Sin:

   • Romans 6:14: "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."
   • Philippians 4:13: "I can do all this through him who gives me strength."
   • Ephesians 6:10-18: The armor of God equips believers to stand against the schemes of the devil.

These verses collectively affirm that while we are free from sin's penalty, we still contend with its presence and power. Yet, through Christ, we are empowered to live victoriously.

[Live2believe]

22 hours ago, Orion said:

Can you say that you are sinless?  

Again, this discussion is about understanding the purpose of Yahweh regarding sin. First, we have to understand what sin is. I believe many people have a wrong idea about it. Can you tell?

[Live2believe]

21 hours ago, Orion said:

Impeccability of Christians

By Dr. Tim White

August 17, 2017

C. H. Spurgeon was preaching in a conference in which another preacher was teaching that Christians could attain sinless perfection in this life and that he had humbly attained this sinlessness. The next morning at breakfast, Spurgeon snuck up behind the sinless preacher and dumped an entire pitcher of milk on his head. Guess what happened? He sinned. 

Did Spurgeon sin? How did the preacher sin?

[Live2believe]

20 hours ago, missmuffet said:

All humans sin and that includes born again Christians. Romans 3:23

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:8,9).

[Orion]

2 minutes ago, Live2believe said:

Again, this discussion is about understanding the purpose of Yahweh regarding sin. First, we have to understand what sin is. I believe many people have a wrong idea about it. Can you tell?

As I stated in an earlier post, sin is rebellion against God; it is missing the mark or the standard upon which God commands of us. 

I'll ask again: Can you say that you are sinless?