Judgment By Fire Is Not Just On The Surface

[Mr. M]

Deuteronomy Thirty-two:

22 For a fire is kindled in My anger,
And shall burn to the lowest hell;
It shall consume the earth with her increase,
And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

"the foundations of the mountains"

The Pillars of the Earth

As fire burns to the core of the earth,

all on the surface are consumed

The Pillars of the Earth remain,

sustained by the Lord

Psalm 75:

2 When I choose the proper time,
I will judge uprightly.
3 The earth and all its inhabitants are dissolved;
I bear up its pillars firmly. Selah

[Mr. M]

@Retrobyter

I worked through your response today,

would you include these verses in your analysis?

Thanks,

James the Insignificant

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

Deuteronomy Thirty-two:

22 For a fire is kindled in My anger,
And shall burn to the lowest hell;
It shall consume the earth with her increase,
And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

The Lord will not repent toward Israel until this present Idol Nation, manufactured as part of the Western Military Complex is destroyed.

35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’

36 “For the Lord will judge His people
And have compassion on His servants,
When He sees that their power is gone,
And there is no one remaining, bond or free.
37 He will say: ‘Where are their gods,
The rock in which they sought refuge?
38 Who ate the fat of their sacrifices,
And drank the wine of their drink offering?
Let them rise and help you,
And be your refuge.

The fake alliance of Evangelical Christianity and Donald Trump and their attempts to fabricate their own fulfillment of prophecy will be unable to rise and help them.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony!

If they do not speak according to this word, 

it is because there is no light in them.

Christian doctrines that are formed in ignorance of ANY Torah demonstrate that there is no Light to be found there.

[Retrobyter]

14 hours ago, Mr. M said:

@Retrobyter

I worked through your response today,

would you include these verses in your analysis?

Thanks,

James the Insignificant

Shalom, @Mr. M.

I'd be happy to do so. I'll work on it this afternoon for you. Thank you, James, for considering a response!

[Mr. M]

On 5/3/2025 at 3:21 PM, Mr. M said:

Deuteronomy Thirty-two:

22 For a fire is kindled in My anger,
And shall burn to the lowest hell;
It shall consume the earth with her increase,
And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

The rational approach for me is to simply ask, "What possible reason could there be for the fire of God's Wrath to reach the lowest levels of Hades?

Hear what the Spirit says concerning the Judgment of the Nations

Joel Three:

20 But Judah shall dwell forever,

and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not

cleansed: for the Lord dwells in Zion.

This seems to only complicate matters and require an even more provocative question, "How on earth could there be innocent blood at the lowest level of Hades?

If you know your bemidbar, the answer will come swiftly.

[Retrobyter]

19 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Deuteronomy Thirty-two:

22 For a fire is kindled in My anger,
And shall burn to the lowest hell;
It shall consume the earth with her increase,
And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

"the foundations of the mountains"

The Pillars of the Earth

Shalom, @Mr. M.

One should ALWAYS look at a Scripture verse's context and read that verse WITHIN its context.

Deuteronomy 31:1-30; 32:1-52 (KJV)

1 And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel. 2 And he said unto them,

"I [am] an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me,

"'Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.'

3 "The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, [and] he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: [and] Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said. 4 And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed. 5 And the LORD shall give them up before your face, that ye may do unto them according unto all the commandments which I have commanded you. 6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he [it is] that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee."

7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel,

"Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it. 8 And the LORD, he [it is] that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed."

9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel. 10 And Moses commanded them, saying,

"At the end of [every] seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles, 11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing. 12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that [is] within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law: 13 And [that] their children, which have not known [any thing], may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it."

14 And the LORD said unto Moses,

"Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge."

And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation. 15 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle. 16 And the LORD said unto Moses,

"Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go [to be] among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. 17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day,

"'Are not these evils come upon us, because our God [is] not among us?'

18 "And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods. 19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel. 20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant. 21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware."

22 Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel. 23 And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said,

"Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee."

24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,

26 "Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. 27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? 28 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. 29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt [yourselves], and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands."

30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

1 "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. 2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: 3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. 4 [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he. 5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot [is] not [the spot] of his children: [they are] a perverse and crooked generation. 6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? [is] not he thy father [that] hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee? 7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee. 8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. 9 For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance. 10 He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. 11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: 12 [So] the LORD alone did lead him, and [there was] no strange god with him. 13 He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock; 14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape. 15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered [with fatness]; then he forsook God [which] made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. 16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange [gods], with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new [gods that] came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. 18 Of the Rock [that] begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. 19 And when the LORD saw [it], he abhorred [them], because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. 20 And he said,

"'I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end [shall be]: for they [are] a very froward generation, children in whom [is] no faith. 21 They have moved me to jealousy with [that which is] not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with [those which are] not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. 22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. 

(Hebrew of verse 22:
כִּי־אֵשׁ קָדְחָה בְאַפִּי וַתִּיקַד עַד־שְׁאוֹל תַּחְתִּית וַתֹּאכַל אֶרֶץ וִיבֻלָהּ וַתְּלַהֵט מוֹסְדֵי הָרִים׃

Kiy-'eesh qaadchaah b'apiy vattiyqad `ad-sh'owl tachtiyt vatto'khal 'erets viyVulaah vatlaheeT mowcdeey haariym:

"'For-a-fire is-started in-my-passion and-shall-burn unto-"asked-about" of-lowest-parts and-shall-consume [the]-land and-its-increase and-ignite [the]-foundations of-mountains:)

23 "'I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. 24 [They shall be] burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. 25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling [also] with the man of gray hairs. 26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men: 27 Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, [and] lest they should say, "Our hand [is] high, and the LORD hath not done all this."'

28 "For they [are] a nation void of counsel, neither [is there any] understanding in them. 29 O that they were wise, [that] they understood this, [that] they would consider their latter end! 30 How should 'one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight,' except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up? 31 For their rock [is] not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves [being] judges.

32 "'For their vine [is] of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes [are] grapes of gall, their clusters [are] bitter: 33 Their wine [is] the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. 34 [Is] not this laid up in store with me, [and] sealed up among my treasures? 35 To me [belongeth] vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in [due] time: for the day of their calamity [is] at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.'

36 "For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that [their] power is gone, and [there is] none shut up, or left. 37 And he shall say,

"'Where [are] their gods, [their] rock in whom they trusted, 38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, [and] drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, [and] be your protection. 39 See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. 41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. 42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; [and that] with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.'

43 "Rejoice, O ye nations, [with] his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, [and] to his people."

44 And Moses came and spake all the words of this song in the ears of the people, he, and Hoshea the son of Nun. 45 And Moses made an end of speaking all these words to all Israel: 46 And he said unto them,

"Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law. 47 For it [is] not a vain thing for you; because it [is] your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong [your] days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it."

48 And the LORD spake unto Moses that selfsame day, saying,

49 "Get thee up into this mountain Abarim, [unto] mount Nebo, which [is] in the land of Moab, that [is] over against Jericho; and behold the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel for a possession: 50 And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people: 51 Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel. 52 Yet thou shalt see the land before [thee]; but thou shalt not go thither unto the land which I give the children of Israel."

19 hours ago, Mr. M said:

As fire burns to the core of the earth,

all on the surface are consumed

No, that is not what this verse is saying. It said, "to the lowest parts of 'asked about'," which means "to the lowest parts of the graves." To say "the core of the earth" has no justification.

19 hours ago, Mr. M said:

The Pillars of the Earth remain,

sustained by the Lord

Psalm 75:

2 When I choose the proper time,
I will judge uprightly.
3 The earth and all its inhabitants are dissolved;
I bear up its pillars firmly. Selah

Fortunately, the Psalm itself IS its context:

Psalm 75:1-10 (KJV)

1 [[To the chief Musician, Altaschith ("Do not destroy"),
A Psalm [or] Song of (to or for) Asaph (a son of Berechiah, chief Levite musician under David).]]

Unto thee, O God, do we give thanks, [unto thee] do we give thanks: for [that] thy name is near thy wondrous works declare. 2 When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly. 3 The earth (land) and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars (scaffolds) of it. Selah. 4 I said unto the fools,

"Deal not foolishly":

and to the wicked,

"Lift not up the horn":

5 Lift not up your horn on high: speak [not with] a stiff neck. 6 For promotion [cometh] neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. 7 But God [is] the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another. 8 For in the hand of the LORD [there is] a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring [them] out, [and] drink [them]. 9 But I will declare for ever; I will sing praises to the God of Jacob. 10 All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; [but] the horns of the righteous shall be exalted.

This is said TO God, not something that God says!

18 hours ago, Mr. M said:

The Lord will not repent toward Israel until this present Idol Nation, manufactured as part of the Western Military Complex is destroyed.

Don't rant and think that The LORD has given up on Israel. He has NOT, and says so  in better passages than these!

18 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Deuteronomy 32:35-38 (NKJV)

35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’

36 “For the Lord will judge His people
And have compassion on His servants,
When He sees that their power is gone,
And there is no one remaining, bond or free.
37 He will say: ‘Where are their gods,
The rock in which they sought refuge?
38 Who ate the fat of their sacrifices,
And drank the wine of their drink offering?
Let them rise and help you,
And be your refuge.

These verses are seen above, and again, they are wrenched out of context and misapplied. They were about the times of the JUDGES after Joshua!

18 hours ago, Mr. M said:

The fake alliance of Evangelical Christianity and Donald Trump and their attempts to fabricate their own fulfillment of prophecy will be unable to rise and help them.

I take it that you do not like President Donald J. Trump? Why would that be? He's done a SUPERIOR job in the short time he's been in office. I can't WAIT until they start handing down indictments against the corrupt leaders who have REPEATEDLY STOLEN MONEY from the tax payers!

Anyway, it is a BLESSING to the United States to support Israel! The man named Israel, first known as Ya`aqoV (or "Jacob") was the grandson of Avraham! And, God promised him and his heirs,

Genesis 12:3 (KJV), God said to Avraham ("Abraham"):

3 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

Genesis 26:24 (KJV), God said to Yitzchaq ("Isaac"):

24 And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, 

"I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake."

Genesis 35:9-15 (KJV)

9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him. 10 And God said unto him,

"Thy name [is] 'Jacob': thy name shall not be called any more 'Jacob,' but 'Israel' shall be thy name":

and he called his name 'Israel.' 11 And God said unto him,

"I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; 12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land."

13 And God went up from him in the place where he talked with him. 14 And Jacob set up a pillar in the place where he talked with him, [even] a pillar of stone: and he poured a drink offering thereon, and he poured oil thereon. 15 And Jacob called the name of the place where God spake with him, 'Bethel' (Hebrew: בֵּית־אֵל = "Beeyt-'Eel" = "House of-God").

Exodus 4:21-23 (KJV)

21 And the LORD said unto Moses,

"When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. 22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Israel [is] my son, [even] my firstborn: 23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, [even] thy firstborn!"'"

He would not let them go, and God DID slay Pharaoh's firstborn son!

Think for a moment: When someone has a son who goes wrong, does he disown him? Well, a "man" (or something less than a "man") might do so, but GOD WON'T! Consider the parable of the Prodigal Son!

Did the father disown his wayward son? NO! He welcomed Him back with open arms! There were still consequences for his actions - he had acquired his inheritance early and had wasted it; however, he was still welcome in his father's house.

The "Land of Israel" is really GOD'S LAND! It belongs to GOD and to whom God gives it! He WROTE HIS NAME UPON THE MOUNTAINS OF ISRAEL!

And, He gave it to His people Israel for a PERPETUAL DWELLING PLACE!

2 Chronicles 6:1-42 (KJV)

1 Then said Solomon,

"The LORD hath said that he would dwell in the thick darkness. 2 But I have built an house of habitation for thee, and a place for thy dwelling for ever."

3 And the king turned his face, and blessed the whole congregation of Israel: and all the congregation of Israel stood. 4 And he said,

"Blessed [be] the LORD God of Israel, who hath with his hands fulfilled [that] which he spake with his mouth to my father David, saying,

5 "'Since the day that I brought forth my people out of the land of Egypt I chose no city among all the tribes of Israel to build an house in, that my name might be there; neither chose I any man to be a ruler over my people Israel: 6 But I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people Israel.'

7 "Now it was in the heart of David my father to build an house for the name of the LORD God of Israel. 8 But the LORD said to David my father,

"'Forasmuch as it was in thine heart to build an house for my name, thou didst well in that it was in thine heart: 9 Notwithstanding thou shalt not build the house; but thy son which shall come forth out of thy loins, he shall build the house for my name.'

10 "The LORD therefore hath performed his word that he hath spoken: for I am risen up in the room of David my father, and am set on the throne of Israel, as the LORD promised, and have built the house for the name of the LORD God of Israel. 11 And in it have I put the ark, wherein [is] the covenant of the LORD, that he made with the children of Israel."

12 And he stood before the altar of the LORD in the presence of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands: 13 For Solomon had made a brasen scaffold, of five cubits long, and five cubits broad, and three cubits high, and had set it in the midst of the court: and upon it he stood, and kneeled down upon his knees before all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven, 14 And said,

"O LORD God of Israel, [there is] no God like thee in the heaven, nor in the earth; which keepest covenant, and [shewest] mercy unto thy servants, that walk before thee with all their hearts: 15 Thou which hast kept with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him; and spakest with thy mouth, and hast fulfilled [it] with thine hand, as [it is] this day. 16 Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying,

"'There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me.'

17 "Now then, O LORD God of Israel, let thy word be verified, which thou hast spoken unto thy servant David.

18 "But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built! 19 Have respect therefore to the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and the prayer which thy servant prayeth before thee: 20 That thine eyes may be open upon this house day and night, upon the place whereof thou hast said that thou wouldest put thy name there; to hearken unto the prayer which thy servant prayeth toward this place. 21 Hearken therefore unto the supplications of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, which they shall make toward this place: hear thou from thy dwelling place, [even] from heaven; and when thou hearest, forgive.

22 "If a man sin against his neighbour, and an oath be laid upon him to make him swear, and the oath come before thine altar in this house; 23 Then hear thou from heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, by requiting the wicked, by recompensing his way upon his own head; and by justifying the righteous, by giving him according to his righteousness.

24 "And if thy people Israel be put to the worse before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee; and shall return and confess thy name, and pray and make supplication before thee in this house; 25 Then hear thou from the heavens, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel, and bring them again unto the land which thou gavest to them and to their fathers.

26 "When the heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; [yet] if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou dost afflict them; 27 Then hear thou from heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, when thou hast taught them the good way, wherein they should walk; and send rain upon thy land, which thou hast given unto thy people for an inheritance.

28 "If there be dearth in the land, if there be pestilence, if there be blasting, or mildew, locusts, or caterpillers; if their enemies besiege them in the cities of their land; whatsoever sore or whatsoever sickness [there be]: 29 [Then] what prayer [or] what supplication soever shall be made of any man, or of all thy people Israel, when every one shall know his own sore and his own grief, and shall spread forth his hands in this house: 30 Then hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and render unto every man according unto all his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men:) 31 That they may fear thee, to walk in thy ways, so long as they live in the land which thou gavest unto our fathers.

32 "Moreover concerning the stranger, which is not of thy people Israel, but is come from a far country for thy great name's sake, and thy mighty hand, and thy stretched out arm; if they come and pray in this house; 33 Then hear thou from the heavens, [even] from thy dwelling place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to thee for; that all people of the earth may know thy name, and fear thee, as [doth] thy people Israel, and may know that this house which I have built is called by thy name.

34 "If thy people go out to war against their enemies by the way that thou shalt send them, and they pray unto thee toward this city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name; 35 Then hear thou from the heavens their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause.

36 "If they sin against thee, (for [there is] no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before [their] enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near; 37 Yet [if] they bethink themselves in the land whither they are carried captive, and turn and pray unto thee in the land of their captivity, saying, 'We have sinned, we have done amiss, and have dealt wickedly'; 38 If they return to thee with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their captivity, whither they have carried them captives, and pray toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, and [toward] the city which thou hast chosen, and toward the house which I have built for thy name: 39 Then hear thou from the heavens, [even] from thy dwelling place, their prayer and their supplications, and maintain their cause, and forgive thy people which have sinned against thee. 40 Now, my God, let, I beseech thee, thine eyes be open, and [let] thine ears [be] attent unto the prayer [that is made] in this place. 41 Now therefore arise, O LORD God, into thy resting place, thou, and the ark of thy strength: let thy priests, O LORD God, be clothed with salvation, and let thy saints rejoice in goodness. 42 O LORD God, turn not away the face of thine anointed: remember the mercies of David thy servant."

God responded with a warning:

2 Chronicles 7:11-22 (KJV)

11 Thus Solomon finished the house of the LORD, and the king's house: and all that came into Solomon's heart to make in the house of the LORD, and in his own house, he prosperously effected.

12 And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him,

"I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice. 13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer [that is made] in this place. 16 For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. 17 And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments; 18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, 'There shall not fail thee a man [to be] ruler in Israel.'

19 "But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them; 20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it [to be] a proverb and a byword among all nations.

21 "And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, 'Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house?' 22 And it shall be answered, 'Because they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.'"

18 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony!

If they do not speak according to this word, 

it is because there is no light in them.

Christian doctrines that are formed in ignorance of ANY Torah demonstrate that there is no Light to be found there.

Again, treat everything as it was meant to be treated, and keep everything in its context. Furthermore, look to the context for understanding.

Isaiah 8:1-22 (KJV)

1 Moreover the LORD said unto me,

"Take thee a great roll, and write in it with a man's pen concerning Mahershalalhashbaz" (Hebrew: מַהֵר שָׁלָל חָשׁ בַּז = "Maheer-shaalaal-chaash-baz" = "Swiftly-comes plunder; speedily [one is] prey").

2 And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah. 3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me,

"Call his name 'Mahershalalhashbaz.' 4 For before the child shall have knowledge to cry, 'My father' (Hebrew: אָבִי = "'aViy" = "my-father, 'Daddy'"), and 'my mother' (Hebrew: וְאִמִּי = "v'immiy" = "and-my-mother, 'and-Mommy'"), the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria shall be taken away before (Hebrew: לִפְנֵי = "lifneey" = "to-the-face-of") the king of Assyria." 

5 The LORD spake also unto me again, saying,

6 "Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly (gently), and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah's son; 7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, [even] the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks: 8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach [even] to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel. 9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces. 10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God [is] with us."

11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,

12 "Say ye not, 'A confederacy,' to all [them to] whom this people shall say, 'A confederacy'; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid."

13 "'Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and [let] him [be] your fear, and [let] him [be] your dread. 14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.'

15 "'And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. 16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. 17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. 18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.'

19 "And when they shall say unto you, 'Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter': should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony?: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them (in the people of Israel). 21 And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God (Hebrew: וּבֵאלֹהָיו = "uwVee'lohaayn" = "and-to-their-God"), and look upward. 22 And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and [they shall be] driven to darkness."

It's important that one sees what's going on in these verses: They are being warned that the Assyrian army is coming. Like a flooded river, it's going to overflow its banks!  But, God warned that they are not to seek an alliance (a confederacy) with neighboring countries; it won't help. Then, He also warns them against the occult and soliciting mediums. He asks the multiple question, "Shouldn't a people seek unto their God? To the Law and the Testimony?" (The Testimony is the record of those who did trust God and proved Him in their lives by believing His promises and receiving His blessings. That's what verse 20 is all about; it's the PEOPLE who are "without light in them," NOT "the law" or "the testimony."

One should remember Galatians 3:

Galatians 3:1-29 (KJV)

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness (Genesis 15:6). 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], "In thee shall all nations be blessed" (Genesis 12:3). 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, "Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" (Deuteronomy 27:26). 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, "The just shall live by faith" (Habakkuk 2:4). 12 And the law is not of faith: but, "The man that doeth them shall live in them" (Leviticus 18:5).

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, "Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree" (Deuteronomy 21:23): 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.

21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our SCHOOLMASTER [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one IN CHRIST JESUS. 29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Hope this all helps.

[Mr. M]

13 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Don't rant and think that The LORD has given up on Israel. He has NOT, and says so  in better passages than these!

I never said He would. The verse states the Lord will act when Israel has no strength. I even said cautiously that even the US could abandon Israel at some point, but I never said the Lord would give up on them.

I even stated that Israel as is, with US backing has its Divine Purpose, which I discussed in "Arise, and thresh" (O daughter of Zion).

22 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

That's what verse 20 is all about; it's the PEOPLE who are "without light in them," NOT "the law" or "the testimony."

I did not say that at all! I said specifically that people who formulate ideas without fully consulting the Law (Deut 32 in this case) and the Testimony, (in this case Psalms) are working with 'insufficient light", (if that lightens the mood.)

I think I will stop here, since you have corrected me twice now for things I never even implied, but if I could ask one more little q (I know, redundant), what is your take on Korah's rebellion and its outcome?

 

[Mr. M]

On 5/3/2025 at 4:43 PM, Mr. M said:

The Lord will not repent toward Israel until this present Idol Nation, manufactured as part of the Western Military Complex is destroyed.

35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’

36 “For the Lord will judge His people
And have compassion on His servants,
When He sees that their power is gone,
And there is no one remaining, bond or free.
37 He will say: ‘Where are their gods,
The rock in which they sought refuge?
38 Who ate the fat of their sacrifices,
And drank the wine of their drink offering?
Let them rise and help you,
And be your refuge.

The fake alliance of Evangelical Christianity and Donald Trump and their attempts to fabricate their own fulfillment of prophecy will be unable to rise and help them.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony!

If they do not speak according to this word, 

it is because there is no light in them.

Christian doctrines that are formed in ignorance of ANY Torah demonstrate that there is no Light to be found there.

Since I was not quoted,

Here is the full post again.

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

These verses are seen above, and again, they are wrenched out of context and misapplied. They were about the times of the JUDGES after Joshua!

Okay. And yet it did not prevent Paul from quoting from Deuteronomy 32, and applying the Word to his generation.

Deuteronomy 32:

21 They have provoked Me to jealousy by what is not God;
They have moved Me to anger by their foolish idols.
But I will provoke them to jealousy by those who are not a nation;
I will move them to anger by a foolish nation.
22 For a fire is kindled in My anger,
And shall burn to the lowest hell;
It shall consume the earth with her increase,
And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Romans 10:

18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”

19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:

“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”

20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”

21 But to Israel he says:

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”

Paul reminiscing about the time of the Judges?

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

One should ALWAYS look at a Scripture verse's context and read that verse WITHIN its context.

I always know the context of a scripture verse that I am studying. I also review key words from each verse for translational consistency and alternatives when used in OTHER contexts. 

Why exactly do you think that you understand context better than others who have lived by God's Word for six decades? Is it because you have a broader color palate? FYI, I don't like Skittles, and I really don't appreciate people who do data dumps on threads. 

If you are unable to find a greater degree of brevity in a discussion, maybe you could just stick to blogging. You response felt more like a flogging. Though you are not alone in this practice, your unique style does not edify because no one comes on this forum to get a homework assignment.