Where in the Bible does it say that I have to go to church?

[Ovedya]

So the answer is don't go to church if you don't want to? Seems pretty easy to me, a little too easy. There is direct biblical support for the need to be a member of a Christian Church, it is actually assumed.

Why are there very specific requirements for how to run a church given? Why were the qualification of elders, deacons, and Bishops given? How do you receive baptism and communion outside of a congregation of believers?

Why are almost all of the letters including revelation in the New Testament written to Churches? No, attending Church will not save you, but if you are saved why would you NOT go to church and more importantly not seek to be a member of a Christian body?

I don't get it?

Is this where t.v. and the internet has led us, all alone, making it up as we go, unable to get along with real people, with real Christians?

Well, to begin with, the first century churches did not meet in congregational centers like we do today. So the letters "to the churches" were written to the body of believers. Also, because "the church" is not a physical building, the epistles written to the churches were both for the individual local congregations and for the other churches.

Our language today is largely steeped in traditional concepts and culture. When we say that we are "going to church" it is really a term that means, "We are going to meet with the saints at a specific location for the purpose of enjoying the Lord together." It could also be used to indicate that one is going to meet with a particular denominational group. I personally don't use the term, "Go to church" because it implies the false concept that the church is the building, or that it is a specific division in Christianity. The church is not the building and it is not a particular denomination with its religious rites and ecclesiastical structure. It is the corporate body of Christ, composed of all the individual members who have believed into Him and received the free gift of eternal life. So, if you are a member of this corporate Body, you are already in the church.

Now, as far as the proper place to meet with the church, there are a few matters that should be considered. The first and foremost of these is that there should be the healthy teachings, which are the the apostle's teachings (Titus 1:9). Most folks appear to differ slightly, and sometimes even greatly about which other matters are important. However, the ground of the church should always be the Lord Jesus Christ, and the foundation of the church should always be the apostles teachings, which Christ as the cornerstone of that foundation.

BTW: I find it kind of interesting how Worthy sort of blows the traditional and cultural contexts of "the church" out of the water. How many of us on Worthy would say to ourselves, "I am going to church" when they log-on to the boards? Yet Worthy is a gathering together of saints from all over the globe. Together we are "the church." It is probably more common for us to say to ourselves, "I am going to the Worthy boards to chat with some other Christians." So on Sunday morning, why don't we say to ourselves, "I am going to go down to the church meeting place (meeting hall) to worship the Lord with the saints." Think about it.

[Smalcald]

Well I agree and disagree.

I think we all agree that the true Church is the group of true believers in Christ across time and across generations and into eternity. However part of that is being a member of a visible church, it is not a sufficient condition of salvation obviously, but like baptism a believer will seek to belong to a congregation, just as she or he seeks to be baptized. There is something very very wrong when people do not seek out other believers to worship with, or for a variety of reasons cannot find a congregation that they wish to join.

The first believers were so involved in their Churches that they gave all of their possessions to the Church, many trusted the church leaders with every penny they had (I am not advocated that today but just an example of how dedicated they were to this body of believers that they belonged to). Anyone in the Church at that time who was in need was fed; they had all things in common. They did not sit at home. If you are an individual believer you are a member of the true Church and as a member you will seek to belong to a visible church on this earth of other true believers. If a church is true all of the religious rites and observances will be in line with scripture. Now I am not saying a church has to look one way or have a type of building or any building, but it will have a structure as Paul directed, it will baptize, share communion, and preach the Word, they will be together. I mean we are actual members of each other, if we really believe that we should seek to be with each other in sharing the faith and worship.

Worthy is a group of people who talk about the Christian faith, it is a ministry and I think a very good thing, but it is not a church. A church includes people who can baptize, who we can share communion with, who can preach the Word to us, and includes bishops, deacons and elders, as Paul instructed.

[yomotalking]

It has been said that going to church does not make you a Christian anymore than living in a garage makes you a car. As a believer you are already member of the church, which is the Body of Christ. What you need therefore is not to go to the building, but to be in the work of the building, that is, to be blent together and built up with the members of the Body of Christ. God has ordained the building work of the church to be this way. Therefore, you should endeavor to meet with the saints at all times and in all places.

Dittio

[Ovedya]

Worthy is a group of people who talk about the Christian faith, it is a ministry and I think a very good thing, but it is not a church. A church includes people who can baptize, who we can share communion with, who can preach the Word to us, and includes bishops, deacons and elders, as Paul instructed.

Well:

1) Anyone who is a believer in Christ can baptize.

2) All believers can share communion together, regardless of time and location.

3) All believer can preach the word.

4) The practical authority in the church, as described by Paul, only has two offices: elder and deacon. The word "bishop" is not the correct translation, and the word is only translated in one verse as such. Otherwise it's the same as elder. There are also many functions in the church which, as described in 1 Cor. 12-14, which are given to the members in general for the building up of the Body. Anyway, Worthy has elders deacons, and traditional pastors, so it still qualifies.

[hat_town21]

"Anyway, Worthy has elders deacons, and traditional pastors, so it still qualifies."

lol...

[Guest Ray_Finder]

I personally don't use the term, "Go to church" because it implies the false concept that the church is the building, or that it is a specific division in Christianity. The church is not the building and it is not a particular denomination with its religious rites and ecclesiastical structure. It is the corporate body of Christ, composed of all the individual members who have believed into Him and received the free gift of eternal life. So, if you are a member of this corporate Body, you are already in the church.

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Ok, I know that I am already part of the church universal, but, what about:

I TI 3:14 - But if I tarry longthat thou may know how you ought to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

To me that implies there was a meeting place for believers, unless I am reading this wrong of course ;-)

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BTW: I find it kind of interesting how Worthy sort of blows the traditional and cultural contexts of "the church" out of the water. How many of us on Worthy would say to ourselves, "I am going to church" when they log-on to the boards? Yet Worthy is a gathering together of saints from all over the globe. Together we are "the church." It is probably more common for us to say to ourselves, "I am going to the Worthy boards to chat with some other Christians." So on Sunday morning, why don't we say to ourselves, "I am going to go down to the church meeting place (meeting hall) to worship the Lord with the saints." Think about it.

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Sounds good, so, then I can stay home on Sunday AM, and log-in, and have sweet communion with sister sheets, and brother blankets, and I don't even have to get out of bed :-) Whooo - - Hoooo!

But, maybe, I might not be challenged, exhorted, taught, etc. It might be plenty easy to slip thru the cracks,

and nobody would know what my life is really like . . . Hummmm . . . .

I don't know, it doesnt set right with me . . .

Sorry . . .

Ray . . .

[Smalcald]

Worthy is a group of people who talk about the Christian faith, it is a ministry and I think a very good thing, but it is not a church. A church includes people who can baptize, who we can share communion with, who can preach the Word to us, and includes bishops, deacons and elders, as Paul instructed.

Well:

1) Anyone who is a believer in Christ can baptize.

2) All believers can share communion together, regardless of time and location.

3) All believer can preach the word.

4) The practical authority in the church, as described by Paul, only has two offices: elder and deacon. The word "bishop" is not the correct translation, and the word is only translated in one verse as such. Otherwise it's the same as elder. There are also many functions in the church which, as described in 1 Cor. 12-14, which are given to the members in general for the building up of the Body. Anyway, Worthy has elders deacons, and traditional pastors, so it still qualifies.

Please this is part of the problem, if Worthy is presenting itself as some sort of alternative to joining an actual church with true membership it is hurting the Body of Christ (although I don

[Ovedya]

Smal, I was really only trying to make a point about traditional and cultural concepts. Of course Worthy does not present itself as an alternative to attending a physical congregational body of believers. However, I would say that if someone is incapable of attending a congregation than Worthy is probably a pretty good way of getting spiritual nourishment. And if the members of Worthy were to gather together for a period of time for worship, and to take communion, and to baptize, then by all means that is the church.

Nowhere in the New Testament will you find a verse or a passage demanding that the believers meet together in a particular way, with a particular ecclesiastical structure, and with a particular set of rituals and observations. As I stated previously, the first century church met from house to house, and all members endeavored mutually to feed and nourish one another spiritually. I have never seen a single verse or passage that says one person cannot take the lead at one time and another, and another cannot at another time. I have never read where certain leading ones should be "voted" into their respective offices, either. That's just tradition.

As far as baptism is concerned, I haven't read anything that forbids me from baptizing a person, or any other believer baptizing another. Baptism is a very normal part of the Christian experience, and it is a joy that all believers can participate in the baptism of a brother or sister mutually. For example, when my daughter was baptized, I was honored to have held her hand and pushed her under the water myself, in the presence of all the saints in my church locality; and when another young sister was baptized I assisted her father. Are these baptisms not honored by God because I don't hold a particular office in the church?

In any case, the church has only one ministry, and there are various types of ministry work. All ministries should be beholden to the single ministry, which is headed by the Lord Jesus, otherwise they are just the vain work of men. I believe that Worthy is a unique ministry with the twofold purpose of discipling the nations, according to the Lord's commandment, and building up the Body of Christ according to the pattern of the apostles. As far as it being "a church," I think we may have to disagree, because of the various variant concepts of what really constitutes a "true church."

[Ovedya]

I personally don't use the term, "Go to church" because it implies the false concept that the church is the building, or that it is a specific division in Christianity. The church is not the building and it is not a particular denomination with its religious rites and ecclesiastical structure. It is the corporate body of Christ, composed of all the individual members who have believed into Him and received the free gift of eternal life. So, if you are a member of this corporate Body, you are already in the church.

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Ok, I know that I am already part of the church universal, but, what about:

I TI 3:14 - But if I tarry longthat thou may know how you ought to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

To me that implies there was a meeting place for believers, unless I am reading this wrong of course ;-)

The church is the house (or household) of God. Read. Eph. 2:19 and Heb. 3:6

BTW: I find it kind of interesting how Worthy sort of blows the traditional and cultural contexts of "the church" out of the water. How many of us on Worthy would say to ourselves, "I am going to church" when they log-on to the boards? Yet Worthy is a gathering together of saints from all over the globe. Together we are "the church." It is probably more common for us to say to ourselves, "I am going to the Worthy boards to chat with some other Christians." So on Sunday morning, why don't we say to ourselves, "I am going to go down to the church meeting place (meeting hall) to worship the Lord with the saints." Think about it.

--------------

Sounds good, so, then I can stay home on Sunday AM, and log-in, and have sweet communion with sister sheets, and brother blankets, and I don't even have to get out of bed :-) Whooo - - Hoooo!

But, maybe, I might not be challenged, exhorted, taught, etc. It might be plenty easy to slip thru the cracks,

and nobody would know what my life is really like . . . Hummmm . . . .

I don't know, it doesnt set right with me . . .

Sorry . . .

Ray . . .

I wasn't advocating doing that at all. You should meet with the saints in your local state, city, or neighborhood. I was just making the point to show how we think in tradtional terms rather than the Biblical concept.

[Guest Ray_Finder]

I wasn't advocating doing that at all. You should meet with the saints in your local state, city, or neighborhood. I was just making the point to show how we think in tradtional terms rather than the Biblical concept.

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Ahhh, I think I understand you now . . .

Of course, I am also thinking about a man in my city who is his own pastor, elder, teacher, and

condems those of us who go to church as weak-minded christians who don't know the truth.

I should have known you do not take that position ;-)

Thanx for your responce, and Blessings to U . . . .

Ray . . .