Visions of Devastation

[Gerioke]

So what's this about then?

Acts:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

For one you completely ignore the fact that it's an inconsistent propphecy. It changes multiple times. Secondly, this isn't in reference to the end times. Peter was quoting from the book of Joel showing that the prophecy had been fulfilled via Pentecost. That prophecy has already been fulfilled.

So according to you, we have have come beyond the last days?

And you ignore the commentary that explains it, how nice. If you will look to it again, Joel's prophecy is two-folded. Part of it was fulfilled at Pentecost...unless of course you believe the Holy Spirit has yet to be poured out on man.

So are you saying that the Holy Spirit left afer pentecost?

[apothanein kerdos]

So what's this about then?

Acts:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

For one you completely ignore the fact that it's an inconsistent propphecy. It changes multiple times. Secondly, this isn't in reference to the end times. Peter was quoting from the book of Joel showing that the prophecy had been fulfilled via Pentecost. That prophecy has already been fulfilled.

So according to you, we have have come beyond the last days?

And you ignore the commentary that explains it, how nice. If you will look to it again, Joel's prophecy is two-folded. Part of it was fulfilled at Pentecost...unless of course you believe the Holy Spirit has yet to be poured out on man.

So are you saying that the Holy Spirit left afer pentecost?

The commentary explains my view. Sorry you continue to ignore that fact.

[2nd2n1roc]

Really, there were no females on the earth? Then, pray tell, how did the human population advance so far without having the means to reproduce?

I feel that you knew, that I was mentioning Joel 2:28, as daughters that will prophesy.

Which is only prelude to what is going to happen' as a complete fulfillment of prophecy, describing what will occur right before Day of the Lord ( just like Jesus did on Mount of Olives )

A small error?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!? You do realize that you're making the absurd assertation that Peter made a doctrinal error...meaning that the Bible holds within it a doctrinal error....correct?

Instead of being drunk the believers were experiencing what was described in Joel 2. In Peter

[2nd2n1roc]

So according to you, we have have come beyond the last days?

According to him, Joels Prophecy is not about last days, it is about Disciples and everything that

have happened in their lifetimes, including destruction of Jerusalem.

Because Simon, son of Jonah said so. ( Acts 2:16 )

When did Acts 2:19,20,21 took place in History if Prophecy is fulfilled ???

2:21 " And Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. "

" Being saved " in my book is to receive eternal life. Only God and Peter have book of Life.

And only the ones that are alive can call anything, graves are silent.

[apothanein kerdos]

Disciples are not prophets or " young Man that see Visions ", they were chosen by God to transmit His Word to the world.

Besides, you can call all you want " Disciples on Pentecost with Holy Spirit ", fulfillment of

Prophecy that clearly describes Pouring out Holy Spirit upon all people, men and women alike,

( Joel 2:28,29 ) Only twelve men, ( that look drunk or stoned ) does not sound like outpour

to me.

Holy Spirit have never left Earth, because Holy spirit is behind every Human creation that

lasts forever, written word, music, film..... ( John 6:63 " Spirit gives life; the flesh counts

for nothing " )

Destruction in the other hand, is lack of Holy Spirit

We know of only 12 main disciples. Furthermore, we know for a fact there were actually around sevetny disciples, and this was early on in Jesus' ministry. When all was said and done, He appeared to over five hundred people. We can easily conclude that He had five hundred disciples at the time of Pentecost.

As far as what else you say, you are asserting that Peter was wrong, thus there is an error. YOu provide no justification for such a drastic claim and therefore I feel I have no reason to even consider it.

First, you throwing accusations and Judgements, then you telling me to read Bible, and find

out, that we are not here to Judge and Accuse.

You're the one saying the Jews killed Jesus...it would be you laying down the accusations. To add onto this, Jesus killed Jesus...no one had the power to take His life from Him.

Edited December 20, 2005 by apothanein kerdos

[Christ's Free Servant]

I feel this post has gone beyond its intended purpose and that it is being non-productive at this point. My purpose here was not to try to convince anyone or prove anything or to try to get people to believe what I said. I know the visions were from God, they do not contradict scripture in any way, we don't know for sure the order of how things are going to happen in the last days so we can not say for sure that God won't do it in this order. What I am reading here from one or several people are vague accusations that have no merit - I see no scriptural basis for those attacks.

If you can prove through scripture that I have stated anything that truly contradicts scripture, then state your case with scripture, and please do it respectfully without cutting remarks. Any subject can be discussed intelligently, respectfully and in a manner that will promote healthy discussion and thought. If this can not be accomplished, then I will need to close this topic. I don't mind you disagreeing with me. I do mind if you attack me or others without intelligent and thoughtful responses. I was sharing my journal. It was food for thought. I can not prove nor do I intend to try to prove it was from God. You will have to determine that between you and God if you so choose to search it out.

Also, a comment was made by someone stating that I was somehow being inconsistent in what I shared. I responded to that, but the author did not respond to my response, but rather chose to continue to spread his false accusations. I believe I stated well my case so I will not repeat it here other than to say there were no inconsistent prophecies. This was a journal. I shared all my thinking during the process of receiving the visions, which included my own inability to correctly interpret the visions initially. Even Peter did not understand the vision God gave him initially, either. That did not invalidate the vision.

This is a summary of the visions: God is going to judge the church through some major disaster unlike anything we have ever experienced before in the USA because the church has turned from its first love and has gone off to follow after other "gods." God is calling us to repentance. He has been very patient with us, just like he was with the children of Israel. Now he is saying, "Enough is enough." He said "two years." He has promised protection for those who are seeking him. He said he will provide "cities of refuge." He has promised a harvest of souls unequaled to anything I have ever witnessed before and a revival among Christians that will shake our nation. I believe, meaning "I" believe this will preceed the time of tribulation.

If I am disalusioned, then don't burst my bubble, because, although I do not look forward to a time of great disaster, I know that God is going to have to shake this nation of ours if we are to truly see revival, and my heart hungers so for revival. That is the hope that is set before me so that I can endure what I have to endure now on this earth.

Did you notice how many times I said "I believe"? This means this is how "I" perceived the visions. You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. I still don't understand them all. I have shared from my journal my best understanding of them. So, cut me some slack, ok? I am not saying "thus saith the Lord" to you. I am saying this is what I heard from the Lord. I believe them to be true. I don't understand everything. I have not perfectly interpreted everything. There are some things I feel most certain about - other things I still have questions about. So, to those who are my worst critics, stop putting so much effort into trying to put me down and get on your knees before God and ask him what he thinks of all of this, OK?

Let's try to exercise some self-control and love here.

[Gerioke]

Let's try to exercise some self-control and love here.

God bless you.

[2nd2n1roc]

I feel this post has gone beyond its intended purpose and that it is being non-productive at this point.

This post is going exactly the way that is supposed to go, because all of us here,

are exactly who we are. We couldn't possibly use any other words.

We all live in times in which your statement fits perfectly into " your sons and daughters will

prophesy and see visions ", today is " ripe " moment to be described as " your old man will

dream dreams " due to enormous leap in technological advance.

We need to all understand that we are spirits, and if one spirit claim that Jesus actualy

commited suicide, don't you think is natural to, just for sake of conversation, try to prove

that capital punishment can not be considered suicide by any stretch of imagination.

In the case of Jesus - John 19:11

My purpose here was not to try to convince anyone or prove anything or to try to get people to believe what I said. I know the visions were from God, they do not contradict scripture in any way, we don't know for sure the order of how things are going to happen in the last days so we can not say for sure that God won't do it in this order. What I am reading here from one or several people are vague accusations that have no merit - I see no scriptural basis for those attacks.

What you did does not have need for a comment of any kind, and you reserve absolute right

to feel God as source of visions. Showing love would be to let those people that do not believe your words, be that way. And give them your uncoditional love in form of your

words, that are actualy not yours, but God's

much love !

Peter

[apothanein kerdos]

If you can prove through scripture that I have stated anything that truly contradicts scripture, then state your case with scripture, and please do it respectfully without cutting remarks.

Talk about a shifting advocacy. Just a few posts ago we read from you:

"But, I do think we should also not just write it off unless it has no relation to scripture or is anti-scripture. I do believe we should keep an open mind and should ask God to help us to know if this is of him or not."

Now you are calling for scripture though just a few posts ago you were saying it doesn't matter.

My case is that you are calling for something that is not in scripture and contradicts it. You are saying God will judge the church. Where in the world do you get off making such a claim? Name one time in history where God has smote His bride and His justification for doing it now.

Any subject can be discussed intelligently, respectfully and in a manner that will promote healthy discussion and thought. If this can not be accomplished, then I will need to close this topic. I don't mind you disagreeing with me. I do mind if you attack me or others without intelligent and thoughtful responses. I was sharing my journal. It was food for thought. I can not prove nor do I intend to try to prove it was from God. You will have to determine that between you and God if you so choose to search it out.

Quote me where I attacked you.

This is a summary of the visions: God is going to judge the church through some major disaster unlike anything we have ever experienced before in the USA because the church has turned from its first love and has gone off to follow after other "gods." God is calling us to repentance. He has been very patient with us, just like he was with the children of Israel. Now he is saying, "Enough is enough." He said "two years." He has promised protection for those who are seeking him. He said he will provide "cities of refuge." He has promised a harvest of souls unequaled to anything I have ever witnessed before and a revival among Christians that will shake our nation. I believe, meaning "I" believe this will preceed the time of tribulation.

This is why I'm calling this prophecy out; it's blatantly false. If we are truly children of the Lord then we shall not suffer judgement. That is scriptural. You are asserting that God is going to judge His own children, something we were supposedly saved from. Yet you have the audacity to get on here and accuse me of attacking you when you are tossing around your dream as if though it were factual...when it contradicts scripture. Name one time in American history where the church has been on track. Was it when we were burning witches? Promoting the torture of Native Americans? Allowing black men and women to continue as slaves? During these times the true followers of God did stand up against these atrocities...but let's face it...as a whole the American church has never ammounted to much. Why is God reserving His judgment to this point? Every single generation has had people proclaim prophecies of God bringing judgement to the church for "falling asleep" and every single one of them has become untrue. Why is that? The true church of God does not need to be judged for the Holy Spirit is active within them.

Did you notice how many times I said "I believe"? This means this is how "I" perceived the visions. You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. I still don't understand them all. I have shared from my journal my best understanding of them. So, cut me some slack, ok? I am not saying "thus saith the Lord" to you. I am saying this is what I heard from the Lord.

I'm saying the visions are false. I'm attacking the visions and the interpretation, I believe both to be false and against scripture. Don't trust visions...that's generally how cults get started (not a slam, just a historical fact).

[Christ's Free Servant]

I'm saying the visions are false. I'm attacking the visions and the interpretation, I believe both to be false and against scripture. Don't trust visions...that's generally how cults get started (not a slam, just a historical fact).

That is certainly your perogative. As far as your other comments, I will answer those later. Our family is having our Christmas celebration tonight since several of our children will be out of town over Christmas, so I'll try to get back with you tomorrow. You gave me some more specifics with which to work, and I feel they are reasonable arguments and worth some kind of response.

Have a good evening and I'll talk with you later.