a question about salvation

[menegroth]

Hi there, i saw the above thread btu didn't seem to answer my question, my question is regarding salvation and loss but nto exactly, i personally don't feel you can lose it however i was wondering if someone can clarify this point for me, i do not believe there are any contradictions in the bible the "apparent contradictions" i have found have always been able to be studied out so that is what i am trying to do here and if i am taking something out of contecxt please elt me know.

first off,

John 10:29

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

10:30

I and my Father are one

this talks about man cannot take you otu of Gods family so nto sure if it applies, the key one is 10:30 jesus and God are one,

6:37

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

he and God are one so he nor God will cast us out.

then you have which seems to remove any other possibility.

Romans

8:38

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

8:39

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

SO now that those are out on the table my problem is understanding

Revelations 22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

the part that is bugging me is "God shall take away his part out of the book of life"

but given the above verses he won't cast us out and nothign else can remove us, so, i am trying to study out wether i am just misreading this, the book it's talkign about is the book that records the names of those correct? so am i taking this out of context or perhaps it is talking abotu spiritual blessings that God will no longer give to you? again not trying to brign this into a OSAS my only reason for this is to understand the meaning of this verse, thanks so much for your help, i appreciate it.

Josh

[Guest chiapetcrj]

Hi there, i saw the above thread btu didn't seem to answer my question, my question is regarding salvation and loss but nto exactly, i personally don't feel you can lose it however i was wondering if someone can clarify this point for me, i do not believe there are any contradictions in the bible the "apparent contradictions" i have found have always been able to be studied out so that is what i am trying to do here and if i am taking something out of contecxt please elt me know.

first off,

John 10:29

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

10:30

I and my Father are one

this talks about man cannot take you otu of Gods family so nto sure if it applies, the key one is 10:30 jesus and God are one,

6:37

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

he and God are one so he nor God will cast us out.

then you have which seems to remove any other possibility.

Romans

8:38

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

8:39

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

SO now that those are out on the table my problem is understanding

Revelations 22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

the part that is bugging me is "God shall take away his part out of the book of life"

but given the above verses he won't cast us out and nothign else can remove us, so, i am trying to study out wether i am just misreading this, the book it's talkign about is the book that records the names of those correct? so am i taking this out of context or perhaps it is talking abotu spiritual blessings that God will no longer give to you? again not trying to brign this into a OSAS my only reason for this is to understand the meaning of this verse, thanks so much for your help, i appreciate it.

Josh

hey Josh,this is christy, i'll try to help you understand this.

first regarding the scripturesjohn 6:37; romans 8:38,39 any one who comes to God believing Him and His word will not be turned away, "whosoever shall call on His name, the same shall be saved" He will not cast them away.

once you belong to God there is nothing or no one that can't take you out of the hand of Jesus.Only we ourselves can erase our name out the book of life.for He will never leave or forsake us.like He told the children of Isreal.His people who walked away from Him; Matt.23:37,38 O Jerusalem,Jerusalem thou that killest the prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee, How often would I have gathered thy Children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens together under her wings, AND YE WOULD NOT.

now we are not to add to nor take away any words from the bible. it is Gods word. John 1:1 in the beginnng was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Psalms 119:89 for ever, O Lord thy word is settled in heaven.

a true Christian and believer will not try and change the word of God. We know better. so any one who does try is going against God, and well , we all know what happened to Lucifer when he went against God. i mean, he was and angel, and God cast Him out of heaven.

I hope that helps you to understand a little bit better. may God bless and Guide you.

[Kabowd]

Only we ourselves can erase our name out the book of life.

I'm curious...where is this verse found?

[Khristeeanos]

Only we ourselves can erase our name out the book of life.

I'm curious...where is this verse found?

Revelation 3:5

He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

The only obvious conclusion from reading this verse is that if someone doesn't overcome, they will be blotted from the book of life. Thus, "Only we ourselves can erase our name out the book of life."

[menegroth]

very interesting verse in revelations that you mentioned, i am not sure of the context of it atm, and don't have much time to study it out tonight however when i read that, there is a verse that i would compare it with, because i know the context of this verse is referring to salvation and wether you can lose it or not. the verse is Romans 8:38-39

Romans 8:38

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Romans 8:39

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Death - you can't lsoe it when you die

Life - you can't lose it while you are alive

Angels - can't take it form you

Principalities - the government can't take it from you

Powers - the devil can't cause you to lose it

Things Present - nothing happening right now can take it away

Things to come - nothing in the future

Height - nothing above you

Depth - nothing below you can make you lose it

Nor any other creature, shall be able to seperate us from the love of God, which is Christ jesus our Lord.

not trying to argue this at all but i think it would be a lot of fun to study these out together and find the truth of it.

[deadman1204]

What if its not just about physical copies of the book, but those who would preach a different end times message. Or try and use what was written there to thier advantage in some way. The passage reflects the gravity of those crimes (as reading the good book does not preclude the person being a believer)

[Khristeeanos]

very interesting verse in revelations that you mentioned, i am not sure of the context of it atm, and don't have much time to study it out tonight however when i read that, there is a verse that i would compare it with, because i know the context of this verse is referring to salvation and wether you can lose it or not. the verse is Romans 8:38-39

Romans 8:38

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Romans 8:39

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Death - you can't lsoe it when you die

Life - you can't lose it while you are alive

Angels - can't take it form you

Principalities - the government can't take it from you

Powers - the devil can't cause you to lose it

Things Present - nothing happening right now can take it away

Things to come - nothing in the future

Height - nothing above you

Depth - nothing below you can make you lose it

Nor any other creature, shall be able to seperate us from the love of God, which is Christ jesus our Lord.

not trying to argue this at all but i think it would be a lot of fun to study these out together and find the truth of it.

That is a great promise of God!

Thank you for posting that.

But don't forget what Paul had just said also:

Romans 8

12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation

[Guest Spirit of God]

Hi there, i saw the above thread btu didn't seem to answer my question, my question is regarding salvation and loss but nto exactly, i personally don't feel you can lose it however i was wondering if someone can clarify this point for me, i do not believe there are any contradictions in the bible the "apparent contradictions" i have found have always been able to be studied out so that is what i am trying to do here and if i am taking something out of contecxt please elt me know.

first off,

John 10:29

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

10:30

I and my Father are one

this talks about man cannot take you otu of Gods family so nto sure if it applies, the key one is 10:30 jesus and God are one,

6:37

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

he and God are one so he nor God will cast us out.

then you have which seems to remove any other possibility.

Romans

8:38

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

8:39

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

SO now that those are out on the table my problem is understanding

Revelations 22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

the part that is bugging me is "God shall take away his part out of the book of life"

but given the above verses he won't cast us out and nothign else can remove us, so, i am trying to study out wether i am just misreading this, the book it's talkign about is the book that records the names of those correct? so am i taking this out of context or perhaps it is talking abotu spiritual blessings that God will no longer give to you? again not trying to brign this into a OSAS my only reason for this is to understand the meaning of this verse, thanks so much for your help, i appreciate it.

Josh

It is a very simple matter. Not everyone who claims they believe, believe. Not everyone who thinks they are saved is saved. Everyone except the very elect are deceived. It is God who opens eyes. Therefore ask Him to open yours.

Every one who asks receives.

[Guest shiloh357]

I realize this debate has been going on for a long time over eternal security. I also realize that a large number of people at Worthy believe it is a fact. But I feel confident that if you would read the scriptures with an open mind, not influenced by the things you have heard in church, you will discover the unconditional eternal security doctrine is false.

Oh and how are you any less affected by your spiritual environment (the church you attend, the books you have read, the sermons you have heard)?????

To presume that your views are held in the absence of any bias towards a particular point of view, and that anyone who disagrees with your view is somehow tainted by other influences, is both arrogant and dishonest.

[Kabowd]

I realize this debate has been going on for a long time over eternal security. I also realize that a large number of people at Worthy believe it is a fact. But I feel confident that if you would read the scriptures with an open mind, not influenced by the things you have heard in church, you will discover the unconditional eternal security doctrine is false.

Oh and how are you any less affected by your spiritual environment (the church you attend, the books you have read, the sermons you have heard)?????

To presume that your views are held in the absence of any bias towards a particular point of view, and that anyone who disagrees with your view is somehow tainted by other influences, is both arrogant and dishonest.

The debate has gone on for centuries with godly believers on both sides. Accusing another believer of bias because of a differing view is simply a preimtive (and weak) attempt to discredit them. In other words, it's rare to come across people who are intellectually honest enough to maintain a discussion without resorting to personal attack. Inevitably, there is someone who will "crack" under the pressure when they are not able to produce the evidence to support a longheld belief. I suppose it's human nature, and we've all done it ... but I'm frankly surprised to see the smokescreen going up so soon in here.

At any rate, I encourage anyone who is genuinely seeking the truth regarding eternal security to examine scriptures, in light of their original text, language and context. If possible, study under godly men and women who are educated in the Hebrew language, Old covenants and the New Covenant, and those who are fluent in koine Greek (or better still, learn it all yourself if you can!). Trust me, this helps. It's very easy to get lost or be led astray. It's also very easy to mistakenly take a text at face value and not fully understand the deeper meaning behind it. Remember to view all Scripture in light of God's character, His promises, Who He says that He is.

Have fun