The Trinity?

[BlindSeeker]

God is in time. He inhabits his creation that includes time. Time does not affect Him because there is nothing that He can learn. He does not Change or grow old. There is nothing or no one more powerful that He would answer to them. He answers just the same, to Himself. God is all powerful and can cause time to stand still or go back but that is still happening in the time that He does it and not the past. When He speaks it will come to pass at any cost and can not be annulled. When the past is past, it is gone. God is not in the past, He was in the Past, He is here now and will be here tomorrow and forever.

There is no basis upon which you can state such conclusively. Time is something, not unlike light and electricity that man is still learning about and gaining some conceptual understanding. There is a reason why the phrase "The theory of electricity" exists, for while man has harnest some of its powers much of it still is but theory to him. Yet we would not say it does not exists.

Man has also found that light exists in many forms and on many levels and is even something which can actually be bent. It too is has espoused many theories which have led to countless discoveries.

The theory of time is something that man is beginning to realize may not be as linear as some would adamantly suggest and considerable serious thought is being given to what was once a great concept for SciFi movies.

Here is a quick link you may wish to review

"God and real time"

[book_wirm]

Apoth,

Let me begin by saying that I whole heartedly accept the doctine of the Trinity. It is too plainly taught in the scriptures to deny. I wonder, though, if we are not going beyond what we know in this discussion of Angels. My point is in regards to this statement:

This would mean that Angels would have the ability to create, have emotion, free will, to sin, to need fellowship, etc.

Yet we do read of Angels who have sinned:

II Peter 2:4

For if God spared not the angels that sinned...

*Also Jude 1:6

Also, there at least appears to be an element of "free will" in Lucifers rebellion and the subsequent falling of those angels who followed him. Apart from this we are told only that they do not marry (Mat 22:30) and that they are for the ministering of the heirs of salvation (Heb 1:14). As to their ability to create, have emotions, or need for fellowship we are told nothing and should speculate about such things with humility.

I do not say any of this to detract from your sound defense of the Trinity nor to imply that we are like the angels. Why, then, would we be told that Christ took not on him the nature of angels, but of the seed of Abraham (Heb 2:16)? We are different. Again, I firmly agree with the doctrine. But we are told too little of the nature of Angels to make very many conclusions about them. That they are a creation of God's and thus below Him is evident. That man is not created in their image, but in the image of God, is clear. Whatever the fundamental difference between men and angels, though, it is that which at once pronounces us made a little lower than they (Psa 8:4-5) and yet affords us that thing witheld from them, which is salvation (II Pet 2:4, Heb 1:13-14; 2:5). We shall even judge them (I Cor 6:3).

In Christ,

Eric

[Guest NewPilgrim]

Quote - *I believe man was intentionally made with more physical limitations than the angels*

Prove it.

If as you say these limitations were caused by sin and Jesus took on the same then He should of also had the sin nature in Him (He didn

[Honest Heart]

Hello Shiloh 357,

Thank you for your reply. About what you said about Jesus referring to God as his God while a human, all the scriptures that I quoted were after he had run his course here on earth. In Rev. he was givig John those visions from Heaven not as a human anymore, but rather, in his heavenly glory that was ressurrected to. In Heb. you stopped too soon, because in the 9th verse it says ..."God, YOUR GOD..." , and you didn' t even mention 1 Pet. 1:3 and Eph. 1:3 and 17. If anything here I am not taking anything out of context, but I'm compelled to think that you might be casting a blind eye to some very real incites to the truth we should all be seeking.

In John 1:1 as it says that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God, I have heard various thoughts on the latter part, but the WORD was indeed with God in the beginning as he is the "first born of all creation." and "thru him all things were created". This latter part doesn't show that he is God, but rather that God allowed him to create in His behalf. So in essence God created, thru him, as the tool so to speak, by which He accomplished all the rest of His creation. So as you say when in Gen. we are told that God said; "let us create man..." He was speaking to Himself (as Jesus) He was indeed speaking to Jesus, not as part of God, but rather as that first created Son thru whom He accomplished all the rest of His creation.

Through out the new test. we see over and over again that Jesus was GIVEN various things and positions by God showing his subjection to Him. If we can just let go of what we have been taught to believe and look to God for guidance as we study His word He will open these truths up to us. The real issue is that we come to a knowledge of the TRUTH in order to come out of bablyon as spoken of in Rev. where Jesus tells his followers to "come out of her my people if you do not want to share in her plagues. I urge you to seek that Truth by becoming as a child, because just as Jesus said, " unless you come to me such as these you will by no means see the Kingdom of God."

It is good that we can 'reason together'

[Unico]

"Son of God," and "God the Son" are the same thing. They express (from the biblical Hebraic perspective) the same concept. "Son of God" is an expression that demonstrates equality with God. It is not same expression as "sons of God" which we are, on a lesser level.

"Equality with God" doesn't make our Lord Jesus Christ the true God Himself.

He is called the "Son of God" to distinct Himself from the ONE TRUE GOD - the Father.

For me, and for Jesus, there is ONLY one true God - and that is our Father.

Hi Unico,

What do you believe about Jesus Christ? Is Christ God or something less?

What do I believe about Jesus Christ?

He is the Son of God.

He is the Savior.

He is the Head of the Church, His Body.

He is the Mediator.

He is the Lord.

He is everything God made Him to be.

He is not the Father.

He is lesser than the Father, because the Father is greater than Him.

He is not the true God since, according to Jesus Himself, the Father is the ONLY true God.

[BlindSeeker]

For AnotherTraveler and Blindseeker: could you please answer these questions directly because I am confused as to where you stand.

1. Do you, or do you not believe in God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit? Why or why not?

Greetings Tess.

Certainly, I believe the Lord our God is one. I believe that God is holy and as Jesus stated, God is a spirit, therefore I believe God in His pure essence is a holy spirit and the evidence of His moving upon the earth as the invisible wind does man by divine inspiration has referred to God

[BlindSeeker]

Quote - *I believe man was intentionally made with more physical limitations than the angels*

Prove it.

Cute.

My intent was to state that Yeshua, emptying himself, made himself subject to the same physical and spiritual limitations as man has due to his fallen state.

Prove it.

To date, I've never called on angels, but I'm sure, with faithfulness, it is quite possible. And who knows what angelic work our prayers have put into action?

Commanding the angels versus having God instruct them according to our prayers are clearly not the same . . . or do you think it is?

[BlindSeeker]

Gen 1:1-2

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness *was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

How many verses would you like to insert between 1 & 2? God didnt see fit to insert any. The two verses make one coherent sentence. The Torah doesnt have full stops and verse numbers

It is not a matter of inserting anything, it is a matter of recognizing the text to be a summary.

If you feel that 797 words in 31 verses of Genesis 1 is a complete and thorough chorological account of all events and phases of creation then we can cease from this vain effort of reasoning now. For if the four Gospels cannot record all that Jesus did while upon the earth, and as John testified,

[BlindSeeker]

The sign of the dove was a sign for John, I do not believe it was witnessed by all.

I don't see any evidence for this in the text.

For the sake of ease due to my time constraints allow me to submit another

[ruah brit]

God is in time. He inhabits his creation that includes time. Time does not affect Him because there is nothing that He can learn. He does not Change or grow old. There is nothing or no one more powerful that He would answer to them. He answers just the same, to Himself. God is all powerful and can cause time to stand still or go back but that is still happening in the time that He does it and not the past. When He speaks it will come to pass at any cost and can not be annulled. When the past is past, it is gone. God is not in the past, He was in the Past, He is here now and will be here tomorrow and forever.

There is no basis upon which you can state such conclusively. Time is something, not unlike light and electricity that man is still learning about and gaining some conceptual understanding. There is a reason why the phrase "The theory of electricity" exists, for while man has harnest some of its powers much of it still is but theory to him. Yet we would not say it does not exists.

Man has also found that light exists in many forms and on many levels and is even something which can actually be bent. It too is has espoused many theories which have led to countless discoveries.

The theory of time is something that man is beginning to realize may not be as linear as some would adamantly suggest and considerable serious thought is being given to what was once a great concept for SciFi movies.

Here is a quick link you may wish to review

"God and real time"

Conclusively what is, is real. The imagination of man is not. Theories of time out of the imaginations of man will give way to what is known to be real. Yesterday is spent, gone and will not return. God has rolled it up like a scroll behind you. This is conclusive. The only thing left of the past is Gods motion toward tomorrow because of what happened yesterday.

Denise