Building On the Rock

[Openly Curious]

Do you have an agenda here? I have noticed that here and in another thread you are leading the discussion towards the church and the word. What is it exactly you are wanting to get at?

Yes, Erich I do have an agenda and that agenda was simply to ask my question and to then let those who are part of worthy chat a chance to answer and respond to it.

I personally think it is a worthty topic to discuss.

Now I have to ask you the same question as you have peaked my curiosity in why you asked if I had an agenda, Do you have an agenda here yourself or does this question upset you in any way for it is a thought provoking question now isn't it.

Openly Curious

Edited January 27, 2006 by Openly Curious

[EricH]

Do you have an agenda here? I have noticed that here and in another thread you are leading the discussion towards the church and the word. What is it exactly you are wanting to get at?

Yes, Erich I do have an agenda and that agenda was simply to ask my question and to then let those who are part of worthy chat a chance to answer and respond to it.

I personally think it is a worthty topic to discuss.

Now I have to ask you the same question as you have peaked my curiosity in why you asked if I had an agenda, Do you have an agenda here yourself or does this question upset you in any way for it is a thought provoking question now isn't it.

Openly Curious

I am a moderator here in the boards, so my agenda is the Spiritual oversight of the boards. When I see an individual posting questions, then trying to lead those questions in a similar direction (the questioning of church leadership), it is incumbent on me to get to the bottom of it. Especially since these types of things can turn into an attack on the Bride of Christ

[Openly Curious]

Do you have an agenda here? I have noticed that here and in another thread you are leading the discussion towards the church and the word. What is it exactly you are wanting to get at?

Yes, Erich I do have an agenda and that agenda was simply to ask my question and to then let those who are part of worthy chat a chance to answer and respond to it.

I personally think it is a worthty topic to discuss.

Now I have to ask you the same question as you have peaked my curiosity in why you asked if I had an agenda, Do you have an agenda here yourself or does this question upset you in any way for it is a thought provoking question now isn't it.

Openly Curious

I am a moderator here in the boards, so my agenda is the Spiritual oversight of the boards. When I see an individual posting questions, then trying to lead those questions in a similar direction (the questioning of church leadership), it is incumbent on me to get to the bottom of it. Especially since these types of things can turn into an attack on the Bride of Christ

First off I just asked a simple question and I'm letting others do the replying. I am not leading anyone in any direction and I'm only replying to others post as they have replied to mine. I thought that's the way it works.

Did you lead me into that direction with your post to me? I personally think you did in two of my threads.

Did you set me up to respond to your replies in regards to "church leadership" in my other thread "teachings of Christ" verses "teachings of Church" I believe it was your posts that "you" sent to me that brought church leadership up it was not me. I had only went in that direction based on "your post" to me you lead the way in the way you responded.

I did not know that it was a forbidden subject to talk about church leadership either for I never saw that in the rules. I think if it is against the rules then it needs to be made more plain to all the members of worthy chat.

Openly Curious

[EricH]

Do you have an agenda here? I have noticed that here and in another thread you are leading the discussion towards the church and the word. What is it exactly you are wanting to get at?

Yes, Erich I do have an agenda and that agenda was simply to ask my question and to then let those who are part of worthy chat a chance to answer and respond to it.

I personally think it is a worthty topic to discuss.

Now I have to ask you the same question as you have peaked my curiosity in why you asked if I had an agenda, Do you have an agenda here yourself or does this question upset you in any way for it is a thought provoking question now isn't it.

Openly Curious

I am a moderator here in the boards, so my agenda is the Spiritual oversight of the boards. When I see an individual posting questions, then trying to lead those questions in a similar direction (the questioning of church leadership), it is incumbent on me to get to the bottom of it. Especially since these types of things can turn into an attack on the Bride of Christ

First off I just asked a simple question and I'm letting others do the replying. I am not leading anyone in any direction and I'm only replying to others post as they have replied to mine. I thought that's the way it works.

Did you lead me into that direction with your post to me? I personally think you did in two of my threads.

Did you set me up to respond to your replies in regards to "church leadership" in my other thread "teachings of Christ" verses "teachings of Church" I believe it was your posts that "you" sent to me that brought church leadership up it was not me. I had only went in that direction based on "your post" to me you lead the way in the way you responded.

I did not know that it was a forbidden subject to talk about church leadership either for I never saw that in the rules. I think if it is against the rules then it needs to be made more plain to all the members of worthy chat.

Openly Curious

No one is saying anything is off topic here. But the tone of your posts was clearly in the direction of people following the church instead of the "true" teachings of Jesus. If it would have been a singe thread I probably would not have said anything, but when a couple are going that way, it appears someone has an issue that is brewing in their minds, and it is part of my job here to find out what that is. Just out of curiosity, are you involved in a church fellowship?

[Openly Curious]

Do you have an agenda here? I have noticed that here and in another thread you are leading the discussion towards the church and the word. What is it exactly you are wanting to get at?

Yes, Erich I do have an agenda and that agenda was simply to ask my question and to then let those who are part of worthy chat a chance to answer and respond to it.

I personally think it is a worthty topic to discuss.

Now I have to ask you the same question as you have peaked my curiosity in why you asked if I had an agenda, Do you have an agenda here yourself or does this question upset you in any way for it is a thought provoking question now isn't it.

Openly Curious

I am a moderator here in the boards, so my agenda is the Spiritual oversight of the boards. When I see an individual posting questions, then trying to lead those questions in a similar direction (the questioning of church leadership), it is incumbent on me to get to the bottom of it. Especially since these types of things can turn into an attack on the Bride of Christ

First off I just asked a simple question and I'm letting others do the replying. I am not leading anyone in any direction and I'm only replying to others post as they have replied to mine. I thought that's the way it works.

Did you lead me into that direction with your post to me? I personally think you did in two of my threads.

Did you set me up to respond to your replies in regards to "church leadership" in my other thread "teachings of Christ" verses "teachings of Church" I believe it was your posts that "you" sent to me that brought church leadership up it was not me. I had only went in that direction based on "your post" to me you lead the way in the way you responded.

I did not know that it was a forbidden subject to talk about church leadership either for I never saw that in the rules. I think if it is against the rules then it needs to be made more plain to all the members of worthy chat.

Openly Curious

No one is saying anything is off topic here. But the tone of your posts was clearly in the direction of people following the church instead of the "true" teachings of Jesus. If it would have been a singe thread I probably would not have said anything, but when a couple are going that way, it appears someone has an issue that is brewing in their minds, and it is part of my job here to find out what that is. Just out of curiosity, are you involved in a church fellowship?

Brother Erich

Since when does someone's post have to be toneless? That doesn't make any sense at all to me. As far as the replies to my post, all those who replied took it in the direction they were thinking at the time just as you did. What's wrong with that?

And what is wrong with issues brewing in someones mind, for I have certainly been listening to yours? . And as far as my post is concerned you have your understanding of it directly backwards. For the record, I was saying we should follow the true teachings of Christ over the teachings of the Church. And I am involved in church fellowship.

Openly Curious

Edited January 28, 2006 by Openly Curious

[Openly Curious]

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ONE TO BUILD HIS HOUSE ON THE ROCK?

Openly Curious

It means building your life on the correct basic foundational Christian Doctrine, for example knowing exactly is ment by "Born again", and not what most people think it means, knowing how to live the Christian life as God intended it to be lived, and not unfortunately how most people try to live it.

The bigest problem the church has is an abysmal lack of good in depth Bible teaching.

For example "Born again" is not what happens to you when you receive Jesus as your own personls saviour, bur rather what God does to you in advance to enable you to acept Jesus.

Only Christ in you can live the life that is pleasing to God, you car'nt, He can, so hand over to Him, and let Him get on with it. This is what the Bible calls faith.

If any further clarification is required, then please feel free to ask, if you want to contact me personally, my address is pabrain@indent,co.uk

Hi,

That is my thinking on the subject and it is a big problem in our days.

The churches (a lot of them) have gone away from the apostles teachings and the teachings of Christ that we have right in our own bibles.

And their is an abysmal lack as you call it of good sound in depth bible teaching.

I believe if any of the apostles of Christ were able to come into our midst today and preach the gospel that they received then most churches would throw them out their doors and not allow them to come back.

I know of a church in my own community that is teaching in their church and advertising it all over town even the so called morals of the (get this) Andy Griffith show.

They are teaching such things as that "over" the morals that are found right in the bible.

So I see something wrong in our time. I know that there is nothing per say, wrong with the Andy Griffith show but when that takes place over the Holy Bible being taught, well it becomes apparant to me that their is a serious abysmal lack.

And to top it off the church even had the singing group the Darlings to come and sing. Man oh man

I also agree that it is "Christ in You" the hope of glory

God Richly Bless You In Your Studies and walk with the Lord

Openly Curious

[Guest NewPilgrim]

What concerns me with this issue is the intent behind the "return to apostolic teaching"

If we seek to encourage our bretheren through the intimate teachings of Gods word and to test all things against scripture, then it is admirable. We should however be wary of "preaching at" our bretheren to remove them from "our contempt of their ignorance"

[Openly Curious]

What concerns me with this issue is the intent behind the "return to apostolic teaching"

If we seek to encourage our bretheren through the intimate teachings of Gods word and to test all things against scripture, then it is admirable. We should however be wary of "preaching at" our bretheren to remove them from "our contempt of their ignorance"

New Pilgrim Greetings to you,

I agree with the first part of your statement for it is what I've been talking about and it is very admirable. It's not only admirable but it's right and it's true truth which God has given to us all, the "One" faith. It's for the educated as well as the uneducated we are all on level ground with the "teachings of the bible." And the bible preaches at us all when taught, or preached, or simply just read and it let's us see ourselves in light of the truth God has given.

As far as your last statement "We should however be wary of "preaching at" our brethern to remove them from "our contempt of their ignorance."

Well I'm not exactly sure what you mean entirely.

If you would could you eloborate on that part of your post.

My thoughts are that we should be wary of anyone who presents the gospel in a inapproprate way for scriptures tells us about this very thing.

I do think that alot of that goes on that's why there is so many different opinions over the contents of the bible in general. And I think that there are those out there as the word also says to us that "desires to be teachers of the law but no nothing about the law" referring to the word.

There are those who are in it for the show the prestege and even greedy of gain.

There are those who think they know it all and do not themselves have a teachable spirit as a little child.

There are those who teach false things intentionally and will not change for nothing they are heretics.

But when one spends time studying and meditating on the word and teaches that word line upon line and precept upon precept well it's gonna hit us all at some time or another and it should cause us to want to move up to higher ground and not stay where we are presently at.

There are alot of churches who are judgmental or that's what I call them because I've been part of some visiting and the what not.

When you listen to them preach well a sinner couldn't even be saved in their midst if they wanted to be because you have to be the way they want you to be before you can even join up with them.

Basicly you would have had to have a good clean past no spots or blemishes well that's not for me because I was a sinner in need of salvation.

So that type of "preaching at" was not the gospel in which the apostles taught nor represented in the gospel.

But the apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "No ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effiminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor theives, nor coveteous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you:"(that's the part I personally like)u but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

So that kind of "preaching at" is good stuff and is the same for us all saint and sinner alike for it is truly good news to a sinner on their way to a devils hell.

So that Kind of return is very admirable and beneficial.

God Bless

Openly Curious

[Guest NewPilgrim]

OC,

from my prev post:

"preaching at" our bretheren to remove them from "our contempt of their ignorance"

What I mean is this, when we "preach to" our intent is to see God glorified, to hope for their recognition of the truth, our intentions are righteous and often, we are open to question and comment from others.

When we "preach at" our motivations are driven by the self, often from a feeling of contempt. Though our intention may appear to be admirable, and we may even to some degree try to convince ourself it is so, nevertheless beneath that thin venir lies our true intent which is to "educate this idiot" or "make him more bearable by getting him to listen" and other such reasonings. It is easy to develop a contempt of others when they do not understand that we see as being clear and simple and if we do, we should recognise it within ourselves and address it before moving on with the issue at hand. I wasn't implying this of anyone on the thread. I have been guilty of it myself at times and if we examine ourselves truthfully, I think most of us will find we have been guilty of it at one time or another. There are those who make a habit of it also, but they tend to be fairly easy to spot after a short while

Anyway, to summarise in brief; Yeshua had a very srong message for the intent of the heart, it is a VERY important part of our sanctification that we should moderate and adapt not just our behavour but our thoughts and motivations too

[Openly Curious]

OC,

from my prev post:

"preaching at" our bretheren to remove them from "our contempt of their ignorance"

What I mean is this, when we "preach to" our intent is to see God glorified, to hope for their recognition of the truth, our intentions are righteous and often, we are open to question and comment from others.

When we "preach at" our motivations are driven by the self, often from a feeling of contempt. Though our intention may appear to be admirable, and we may even to some degree try to convince ourself it is so, nevertheless beneath that thin venir lies our true intent which is to "educate this idiot" or "make him more bearable by getting him to listen" and other such reasonings. It is easy to develop a contempt of others when they do not understand that we see as being clear and simple and if we do, we should recognise it within ourselves and address it before moving on with the issue at hand. I wasn't implying this of anyone on the thread. I have been guilty of it myself at times and if we examine ourselves truthfully, I think most of us will find we have been guilty of it at one time or another. There are those who make a habit of it also, but they tend to be fairly easy to spot after a short while

Anyway, to summarise in brief; Yeshua had a very srong message for the intent of the heart, it is a VERY important part of our sanctification that we should moderate and adapt not just our behavour but our thoughts and motivations too

Thank you for your reply and I agree that we should have "fervent" love for the brethren and we that are strong in the Lord should "bear" the infirmities (weaknesses) of others that are not strong in the Lord nor the teachings of the Bible.

There are also those whom we should not share our "pearls" (Christian values our valuables) with because those who do not understand spiritual things and have not the mind of Christ will in fact turn and rend (tear you to pieces) you.

Sadly there are those in church that are yet carnal minded.

There are people in the church as well that scripture tell us remain (intentionally so) ignorant and they do this willingly even. Their train of thought is if they don't know what the word says and requires of them then they will not be held accountable for their ignorance.

Well we must "warn" those not to do that because we all will be accountable and many will be destroyed for a lack of knowledge.

The apostle Peter says much on having knowledge in 2 Peter 1:2 Peter say that through our knowledge of God that grace and peace would be multiplied into our lives and I need grace and peace in abundance.

The growth of true knowledge of God is what gives us the things that pertain to this life, godliness 2 Peter 1:3.

We are also told by Peter in 2 Peter 1:5 to add knowledge to our faith.

We are told in 2 Peter 1:8-11 that if our knowledge which was among those other things mentioned that we are to add knowledge to our faith if those things abound (stay) then we will not be "barren" nor "unfruitful" in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But those who will not add knowledge to their faith then they will remain blind and cannot see afar off their futures and have forgotten that they were washed from their sins.

But if believers will add and give diligence to these things then it says they will "never fall."

In verse 11 of 2 Peter chapter one it says that an "entrance" would be ministered unto those believers who would add these thing to their faith and that an entrance would be ministered unto them abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I myself want to go through that entrance which will be the Holy City New Jerusalem the final place of the believers.

Also Peter wrote further about the knowledge of God in 2 Peter 2:20, 3:5, 14,16,17,18.

So I do not believe a Christian should remain ignorant in their knowledge of God and should not be accepted.

Meaning our christian leaders that are among us should encourage strongly being educated in the bible because there are serious consequence if one doesn't and will not (refuses to) add knowledge (a education) to their faith.

Our heavenly Father has given mankind (His children) instructions for righteous living and we should not condone ignorance in our churches as the apostle Peter spoke about.

So, it's really all about being balanced in all areas and doing things as you say that will bring glory and honor to God and not we ourselves.

God Bless New Pilgrim

Openly Curious