What happened to the Christians?

[WatchingForJesus]

Have you ever stopped to think about what God meant when he said that there would be a

[Bolts]

Excellent post Bradley,

I just want to respond to a minor point:

Pride and covetous, are an age old sin. There is nothing new under the sun. Human nature hasn't changed. Things will be worse in these end times because laws now permit a lot of things that are an abomination to God. At the end of the day it all comes down to individual choices about who we will serve.

Anyway, the point I want to make is this:

Here is the probably the most difficult and most disheartening fact to swallow. Almost every Christian that is caught up in the

[deadman1204]

While the dilluting and mispreaching of our saviors word is regrettable, one should always keep this in mind - no one can lose thier salvation, nor can the elect be stopped from attaining it. While satan may be doing his best to mislead people, he cannot stop God.

[WatchingForJesus]

Excellent post Bradley,

I just want to respond to a minor point:

Pride and covetous, are an age old sin. There is nothing new under the sun. Human nature hasn't changed. Things will be worse in these end times because laws now permit a lot of things that are an abomination to God. At the end of the day it all comes down to individual choices about who we will serve.

Anyway, the point I want to make is this:

Here is the probably the most difficult and most disheartening fact to swallow. Almost every Christian that is caught up in the

[Bolts]

That is a very informative link. Thanks Bradley.

The penny has dropped .......

[WatchingForJesus]

While the dilluting and mispreaching of our saviors word is regrettable, one should always keep this in mind - no one can lose thier salvation, nor can the elect be stopped from attaining it. While satan may be doing his best to mislead people, he cannot stop God.

deadman,

You are correct, satan CANNOT stop God. And though losing one's salvation is a debatable subject (debated many times here on this forum and throughout history), I do not wish to debate that subject in this thread.

However, please read the following verses and let me know how you interpret them. And, of course, any one else who would like to put in their 2 cents. Please keep in mind, that I am being very pragmatic with my approach. I appreciate you bringing this up because it appears that I should also add the following to back up my theory that some christians "by name" could get left behind. THIS OF COURSE IN NO WAY INSINUATES THAT THEY WILL LOSE THEIR SALVATION (if they really are a Christian - certainly not for us to determine), they may, however, have to go through the tribulation.

Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares.

Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus is saying that those that get "caught up" with the "cares of this life" (success, materialism, shopping, hollywood, disease, worldwide peace, etc.) could have that day take them unawares. Why else would he tell us to pray "ALWAYS" that we may be accounted worthy to escape all these things?

Also the parable he told about the 10 Virgins - To save space I am only going to put the chapter it's located in rather than copy the whole parable here. Matthew 25

In this parable, Jesus tells of 10 virgins (Christians) who are waiting for the bridegroom (Jesus) to return. Because the bridegroom "tarried", 5 of the virgins (Christians) were off "shopping" for oil (caught up with the cares of life) when the Bridegroom returned. Afterward, the virgins came to the door, But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. (Mat 25:12)

There is also the 7 letters to the churches. Many believe that although these letters were written specifically to 7 churches that were around at the time John had his vision, the 7 letters represent specific eras within the age of the Church. With that belief, we look at the Church of Laodicea.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

This is another example of those who are caught up with the "cares of life", indeed so rich that they have "need of nothing". Although He says that He will spue them out of His mouth, He gives them the ability to overcome, as He overcame by giving their life, which could possibly be the only way to save themselves once they have entered the tribulation.

At the risk of starting a whole new topic in this thread, my last statement could lead someone to believe that salvation is based on works. However, keep this in mind, before Jesus came to earth with His ultimate sacrafice, salvation WAS based on works. During the age of grace, ending with the rapture of the church, salvation is based on GRACE alone.

During the tribulation, the age of grace has ended, and the 70th week of Daniel has begun and therefore a return to salvation based on WORKS. Those who are alive during the tribulation (excluding the 144,000) will only be saved if they do not take the "MARK", which unfortunately means, they more than likely will be beheaded, putting them in a completely seperate category in heaven:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [i saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Thank you so much for questioning me!

Sincerely In Christ,

Bradley

[deadman1204]

deadman,

You are correct, satan CANNOT stop God. And though losing one's salvation is a debatable subject (debated many times here on this forum and throughout history), I do not wish to debate that subject in this thread.

However, please read the following verses and let me know how you interpret them. And, of course, any one else who would like to put in their 2 cents.

Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares.

Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

We are told that while we live in the world, to not be of the world. This passage has two audiences.

1) Beleivers - it is warning them to always be ready for Christ to return. Not to think you can live your life, and then live in Godly ways in your old age. How would you feel if you lived a life to terrible sin and before you took the time to fix it you were face to face with God. Not a very comfortable situation I'm sure.

2) This has a different message for those who have heard the word of God but do not have faith. It is a dire warning to pray and seek out the Lord.

However, keep this in mind, before Jesus came to earth with His ultimate sacrafice, salvation WAS based on works. During the age of grace, ending with the rapture of the church, salvation is based on GRACE alone.

This is absolutely false.

Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not

The requirments for salvation cannot and have not ever changed.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

God changes not, his Word will never pass away - this passage has meaning through all time.

Rom4:1- What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. It was Abrahams faith in God that justified him, nothing else.

Hbr 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous

It was Abels faith in the Lord, giving something of far greater value.

Hbr 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

It wasnt the act of putting Isaac up for sacrifice, but the faith in the Lord that Abraham was doing right.

Hebrews chpt 11 mentions several other instances of people being justified by thier faith in the lord, not by thier actions.

The law was never a means for salvation. It was there to show people thier need for grace, for the messiah. It shows how impossible it is for man to live up to God's expectations.

*edit - fixing quotes

Edited January 20, 2006 by deadman1204

[deadman1204]

And then there is this escapist thoelogy where believers who have never suffered the dlightest bit of persecution believe that they will be raptured out of thier $500,000 homes before any stormtrooper crashes the front gate of thier Gated Community. I personally don't know what to believe about his but escaping persecution in the rapture is not a reason to come to faith. One has to wonder how many will renounce their faith at the recieving end of an MP-5 when they were expecting to be raptured without ever having to suffer anything?

This is what REALLY bothers me. There seems to be SOO many people cheering for the end times to come - for such terrible events to happen. Fully expecting to never have to suffer for the Lord. This wont be. The 144,000 Jews will be in hiding from the antichrist - thats why he will go after the rest of the world. Because he is frustrated by not being able to get them.

Heck, how can the antichrist lead them to hate christians if there ISN'T ANY.

Christians will be dragged from thier home, watch thier kids, parents, siblings, wives, husbands raped, tortured, beaten, and murdered in front of them. All the while being told they just have to renounce Jesus to save them.

[deadman1204]

that cannot actually be proven card

[WatchingForJesus]

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Edited January 20, 2006 by WatchingForJesus