A Timely Word From the Lord

[Catsmeow]

CFS: The "radiant woman" you referred to is not the Church.

Some evangelicals think the woman is the "church", while Catholics think she's the virgin Mary, but in Micah, Ch 5, her identity is revealed:

Micah 5

2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,

though you are small among the clans [b] of Judah,

out of you will come for me

one who will be ruler over Israel,

whose origins [c] are from of old,

from ancient times. [d] "

3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned

until the time when she who is in labor gives birth

and the rest of his brothers return

to join the Israelites.

*(There's 12 stars, which represent the 12 tribes of Israel)

4 He will stand and shepherd his flock

in the strength of the LORD, *(Christ Jesus)

in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God.

Now, remember Joseph's dream, which he revealed to his Father, Jacob and his brothers?

Genesis 37:

9 Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brothers, and said, "Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me." 10 So he told it to his father and his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, "What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall your mother and I and your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth before you?"

Joseph recalls ELEVEN stars bowing to him in his dream. Each star represents one of the tribes ....and Joseph makes the 12th tribe, (note that the gentiles are grafted in through Joseph's loins since he married an Egyptian).

Revelations 12:1 1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron.

The woman is Israel, the 12 stars are the twelve tribes of Israel and the male child is Christ. This is prophesied both in Joseph's dream and in John's vision in the Book of Revelation.

The woman is NOT the Church. The Church is represented by seven (7) lampstands, not stars.

Revelation 1:20 20 The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw F10 are the seven churches.

[Christ's Free Servant]

Cats,

Those were my notes on a sermon that I heard. What he said was that the woman was the OT church, meaning Israel. Who was the church in the OT? Was it not the people of God? I don't know of any other group in the OT who would be considered the equivalent of "the church." So, I am assuming he meant the Jews. And, he did say the child was Jesus Christ. So, I think we are agreed.

Love,

[Catsmeow]

Okey, dokey. I'd never heard of Israel referred to as the 'church'....per se. I'd always heard the NT believers as the church..so I kinda wondered.

I've heard Catholics insist on it being the Virgin Mary (who, naturally did bear the Lord Jesus herself) but symbolically, Micah reveals the meaning of the 'woman in travail'.

Then, I've heard folks who thought it was the NT church...which I didn't know any better myself till I began to dig into the OT verses and see the prophetic reference to Israel.

I'm a student, ever learning....

[Christ's Free Servant]

Okey, dokey. I'd never heard of Israel referred to as the 'church'....per se. I'd always heard the NT believers as the church..so I kinda wondered.

I've heard Catholics insist on it being the Virgin Mary (who, naturally did bear the Lord Jesus herself) but symbolically, Micah reveals the meaning of the 'woman in travail'.

Then, I've heard folks who thought it was the NT church...which I didn't know any better myself till I began to dig into the OT verses and see the prophetic reference to Israel.

I'm a student, ever learning....

Me, too!! And, the older I get, the more times I have to hear something before it finally sticks, and even then some things just never stick with me no matter how many times I hear them.

Yeah, I don't think I had ever heard Israel referred to as the OT Church before, either, but I knew what he meant. It was more of a conceptual understanding than a literal one, i.e. church = God's people NT, so OT church = Israel. Well, my brain translated it that way.

I don't know if I agree with everything this pastor is saying, but he sure is passionate about Revelation and Christ's return! I just get excited listening to him describe the events that are to take place. He has a really close relationship with the Lord, you can tell. When he tells the story, it brings tears to my eyes and like there is a witness in my spirit that says "yeah." You know what I mean? This is a person I could sit down with and talk with about the Lord for hours if he had hours, but he is the pastor of one of our largest churches in our area and his wife is dying of Lukemia, too, which has drawn him even closer to the Lord. I know he is going to have lots of crowns in heaven to lay at Jesus' feet!

[Catsmeow]

I don't want to go off topic but just a quick note: ever notice how you can hardly find two pastors that agree on anything?

It's frustrating at times for me.....I've just about given up and just do my own bible study and pursue the vast array of commentaries on bible websites and go from there.

[Christ's Free Servant]

I don't want to go off topic but just a quick note: ever notice how you can hardly find two pastors that agree on anything?

It's frustrating at times for me.....I've just about given up and just do my own bible study and pursue the vast array of commentaries on bible websites and go from there.

Cats,

Yes, we are all human, sadly enough, and not one of us has the market cornered on truth or true interpretation. We all do our best, I think, to correctly handle the word of truth. I think it is always important to glean from what anyone teaches what is good and worth saving and then discard what you know is full of holes. Not one person is going to be all knowing, except God. So, one pastor may have one thing right and another may have another thing right, so you take the best from both. And, of course, you always examine everything you hear in light of scripture to see if it adds up. We can always learn from people, even if they are not perfect, right? But, a witness of the Spirit in your heart should be a good guide to help you to know what is true as well as a good personal study time in the word just between you and God.

Just keep studying. We don't know at what point in time the Word may be taken away from us. Precious are his words to me!