Suicide

[Trinity]

This whole matter comes down to the question of whether or not God considers it murder to take your own life. I believe he does. 1 John 3:15 states, ..."ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

I do not care if the person that commits murder was saved or not. If he kills himself and has no chance to repent, he will wind up in hell. Unconditional security for the believer is simply not scriptural.

The scripture here says NO MURDERER hath eternal life. What part of "no" do you not understand?

um... kinda extreme?

When you are going to quote verses please quote them in full Context.

1 John 3:15

Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

Have you ever hated someone? Have you ever said "grrr... I hate that person?"

Well if indeed you have your not going to heaven either according to this verse you'll be sent to hell with those who sit in prison. Now do you believe that if you hate someone you will go tohell no matter if you don't hate him 10 years later? You already commited the sin thus being a Murderer.

[Smalcald]

Well the problem is looking from the outside and understanding mental illness..... *snip in the interest of brevity*

But once again, I don't think we can say anything about individual instances of suicide because we really don't understand mental illness very well and we don

[Clio]

Thank you for your prayers, but please don't pray about suicide with regard to me. Abba and True Jesus have won a complete victory in me in that area. One doesn't need prayer for something that no longer exists.

With regard to me, me, me... I was so mentally wounded at the time there was no "me" to it any more. It was simply a driving desire to make the pain stop.

There are not enough words to describe what was happening to me, but "me" was not where my focus was. Stopping the pain was.

Thankfully, words are not needed, because Abba knows all hearts.

Jesus came in and set all the captives free, and now we have a deal. I am at His disposal forever, until none are lost or captive. UNALOC. And then I am still His.

Clio

[apothanein kerdos]

Butero, by your own standard, you cannot get into heaven. If you say we die in sin, or that we sin, then we go to hell. Thing is, the Bible says if we say we are without sin (and this is addressed to Christians) then we are a liar, which of course is a sin. Thus by your own standard...we go to hell. Either way, your standard simply does not work in an applicable situation.

[Smalcald]

Thank you for your prayers, but please don't pray about suicide with regard to me. Abba and True Jesus have won a complete victory in me in that area. One doesn't need prayer for something that no longer exists.

With regard to me, me, me... I was so mentally wounded at the time there was no "me" to it any more. It was simply a driving desire to make the pain stop.

There are not enough words to describe what was happening to me, but "me" was not where my focus was. Stopping the pain was.

Thankfully, words are not needed, because Abba knows all hearts.

Jesus came in and set all the captives free, and now we have a deal. I am at His disposal forever, until none are lost or captive. UNALOC. And then I am still His.

Clio

What a wonderful testimony clio.

I will still hold you in my prayers though it that is okay, not for worrying over suicide but for your continued health and your testimony to others who may feel the way you did.

[Clio]

Thank you for your prayers, but please don't pray about suicide with regard to me. Abba and True Jesus have won a complete victory in me in that area. One doesn't need prayer for something that no longer exists.

With regard to me, me, me... I was so mentally wounded at the time there was no "me" to it any more. It was simply a driving desire to make the pain stop.

There are not enough words to describe what was happening to me, but "me" was not where my focus was. Stopping the pain was.

Thankfully, words are not needed, because Abba knows all hearts.

Jesus came in and set all the captives free, and now we have a deal. I am at His disposal forever, until none are lost or captive. UNALOC. And then I am still His.

Clio

What a wonderful testimony clio.

I will still hold you in my prayers though it that is okay, not for worrying over suicide but for your continued health and your testimony to others who may feel the way you did.

Erhm... well... ok. But it's not my testimony. It's the testimony of True Jesus and the healing power in His Blood. Abba has been most gracious with regard to my health. I don't think He's gone to all this trouble only to withdraw His healing But I do thank you for your prayers. I appreciate them.

My husband has been an invalid for 2 years, and not once in all that time i have not been ill or even hurt. True Jesus has worked a miracle and broken off a generational curse from my dh that was stealing his very life. He's been healing for 6 months now, and is a tremendous testimony in our town. People who don't know us stop us on the street and tell him how shocked and amazed they are that he is still alive, because he looked like a walking corpse (or riding as he was most often in a wheelchair), and how is it that he still lives. Even his surgeon told us that he didn't expect him to live.

Abba has been wonderful, and while my dh's full healing is yet future, we are in the regaining his strength phase. And the progress is amazingly fast. His stamina has quadrupled in the last week. He is driving again, 4 diseases have been healed and documented as such.

I would ask that you pray for his healing and health rather than mine. True Jesus promised full healing and it would be by this I would know the truth of what I was told to speak.

Clio

[chicagoburbite]

I believe when we commit wilful sins, such as choosing to commit suicide which is the question in this post, there is no automatic covering for such sin.

Where does it say that only certain sins are covered, while other sins are not?The only unforgivable sins are rejecting Christ and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Mark 3:28 "I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Since such a person would leave this world with spot on their garment, they would go to hell, plain and simple.

Some Catholics(and others) teach that confession of sin must be made before passing from this world to the next. They believe that suicide is the worst of all sins because the person can not repent of it. BUT, that is a terrible misunderstanding of our security in accepting the grace. We are saved by the grace of God, not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9) and nothing can separate a Christian from the love of God (Romans 8:37-39)

How can you possibly discount those verses??

This is what's said about our eternal security:

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

-John 5:24

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."

-John 10:27-29

The only way a person that commits suicide could get to heaven, in my judgement, based on scripture, is if he or she truly came to a place of repentance before they died, and confessed that sin.

Remember that God judges each of us individually, knowing all the details of our lives, knowing our beliefs and our motives. We are all so complex, truly, only God could really judge us in total truth, wisdom, and without favoritism.

With all this said, I do NOT think this is license to committ suicide!!!

Edited January 25, 2006 by chicagoburbite

[chicagoburbite]

Butero, by your own standard, you cannot get into heaven. If you say we die in sin, or that we sin, then we go to hell. Thing is, the Bible says if we say we are without sin (and this is addressed to Christians) then we are a liar, which of course is a sin. Thus by your own standard...we go to hell. Either way, your standard simply does not work in an applicable situation.

AMEN AK! Sums up what I was trying to say ^ there in my post.. but in fewer words lol

Jenni

[EricH]

Butero, by your own standard, you cannot get into heaven. If you say we die in sin, or that we sin, then we go to hell. Thing is, the Bible says if we say we are without sin (and this is addressed to Christians) then we are a liar, which of course is a sin. Thus by your own standard...we go to hell. Either way, your standard simply does not work in an applicable situation.

AMEN AK! Sums up what I was trying to say ^ there in my post.. but in fewer words lol

Jenni

The scripture that says that wilful sins are not automatically covered is Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, THERE REMAINETH NO MORE SACRIFICES FOR SINS."

As for that statement from AK, that blanket statement doesn't hold water. By my standard I most certainly can get to heaven. My sins were forgiven when I accepted Jesus, and at that moment I was saved. As long as I don't commit wilful sins, that is, pre-mediated thought out sins, I am fine. If I do commit wilful sins, then I have spot on my garment until I confess my sins to God. Then I am once again restored to fellowship. I would again go to heaven if I died. It works very well in real life.

So according to your understanding of Hebrews, if a person sins willfully after being saved, there is no longer any sacrifice for that sin. They cannot be saved

[chicagoburbite]

The scripture that says that wilful sins are not automatically covered is Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, THERE REMAINETH NO MORE SACRIFICES FOR SINS."

Pretty dangerous to hinge your entire thoughts on suicide based on 1 passage of scripture. The following is from gotquestions.org

Question: "What does Hebrews 10:26 mean?"

Answer: Hebrews 10:26-29 warns against the sin of apostasy. Apostasy is an intentional falling away or defection. Apostates are those who move toward Christ, hear and understand the Gospel, and are on the verge of saving faith, but then rebel and turn away. Willful sinning in this passage carries the idea of consciously and deliberately rejecting Christ. The apostate has knowledge, but no application of that knowledge. Judas Iscariot is the perfect example

Edited January 25, 2006 by chicagoburbite